I never saw such a pile of cockamamie nonsense in my life. Instead of
dreaming this stuff up, Please direct us to the locations in the NEC where
we can find this "information"


"w_tom" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 26, 9:04 am, John Ross wrote:
If it is connected at the first five feet and there is the all metal
water pipe, would it serve as BOTH a bonding and and additional
"ground"?

In my case the house already uses the water pipe as the only ground.
So if a ground rod was installed and then "bonded" to the pipe,
wouldn't the pipe still act as sorta a second ground anyway (like
having 2 ground rods, maybe)?

The heart of a human safety ground system is a bus bar inside that
breaker box. Everything it grounds (bonds to) must connect directly
to that bus bar by approved materials. For example, you cannot
connect a wall receptacle to an earth ground or water pipe. Neither
earth nor pipe to is approved to make that connection. Code says
there must be a direct wire connection from wall receptacle grounds to
breaker box safety ground. Each ground for each circuit must connect
directly back to the breaker box safety ground. Each wire that earths
that bus bar also must connect directly back to the breaker box. Code
even defines which conductors can only make that connection.

Connecting a ground rod to breaker box via any pipes is not valid.
The ground rod will better earth a water pipe. But from the
perspective of a breaker box, that is still only a water pipe
connection - no longer sufficient for earthing.

Irrelevant is whether your water pipe does or does not create an
earth ground. Your breaker box must be earthed by some other earthing
electrode with its own dedicated connection - regardless of whether a
water pipe ground does or does not exist.

Code is quite blunt about it. The code lists electrodes that are
sufficient for a breaker box earth ground. Cold water pipe is no
longer on that list. The water pipe is only an earth ground that can
be an 'also' earth ground. Water pipe earth ground is no longer
sufficient. Code lists other electrodes that must make ant earth
ground. List includes the dedicated ground rod, a large earthing
plate, or an Ufer ground. Each must make a dedicated connection to
breaker box safety ground using listed conductors. Pipes, which are
installed for other (non-electrical) purposes, are no longer
sufficient for earthing.

Take everything Bud posts with a grain of salt. Truth is not a
strong suite with salesmen - especially those who only learn from
salesmen classes. What jurisdictions now required steel bathtubs
bonded to breaker box safety ground? Many including mine. If Bud had
any experience, he would know that. But the point of that example:
pipes are not longer sufficient for bonding or earthing anything.
Pipes bonding a steel bathtub, in some jurisdictions, are no longer
considered sufficient for human safety. If a pipe is being used for
earthing, one must still install another earthing electrode as if the
pipe did not even exist.

It does not matter if a metal connection exists. Conductor that
connects an earthing electrode to that bus bar inside a breaker box
must be 'listed' - approved for making a connection. Totally
irrelevant is whether a connection is metal. It must be even better.
It must be approved for making that connection.

Even if bonding an earth ground rod to a water pipe, to the breaker
box, that is only a water pipe earth ground. To meet post 1990 code
requirements, that earth ground rod must be bonded directly to the
breaker box via 6 AWG bare copper wire. Water pipes are no long
acceptable as a connecting device. When bonding an earth ground rod
via water pipes, then you are using pipes as a conductor. Water pipes
are no longer sufficient for earthing AND are not approved for making
that electrical connection.