John Ross wrote:

bud-- wrote:
w_tom wrote:
On Sep 23, 9:22 am, John Ross wrote:
This is what I was getting at. Should the connection to the water pipe
be moved to within 5 feet of the entrance of the house (to be closer
to that 10 foot of pipe you refer to).And also does it matter if the
old connection is left (i.e. 2 places it is bonded at)?
Pipes must never be a carrier of electricity - an attitude change
from many decades ago. That cold water pipe ground clamp is to remove
electricity from water pipes; not to dump electricity into water
pipes. Its primary function is human safety.
Its the village idiot back again with his nonsense about water pipes.

Buried metal water service pipe at least 10 ft length has been
*required* to be used as a grounding electrode since 1777.

Grounding wires, that the OP is interested in, can connect in the first
5 feet of water pipe if the pipe is used as a grounding electrode.

"Remove electricity from water pipes" is technical illiteracy.

That safety ground wire to water pipe must be less than 5 feet from
where pipe enters the building.
If the pipe is only being 'bonded' (not used as an earthing electrode)
the connection does not have to be within 5 feet of the entrance. It is
not used as an earthing electrode only when less than 10 ft buried metal.

This for numerous reasons including to
pickup any stray currents that might enter from outside via city
water.
More technical illiteracy.

Some jurisdictions also want a steel bathtub bonded by a dedicated 6
AWG ground wire to breaker box safety ground.
Name one.


If it is connected at the first five feet and there is the all metal
water pipe, would it serve as BOTH a bonding and and additional
"ground"?

If a water pipe is used as a grounding electrode, it is "bonded" in the
process.


In my case the house already uses the water pipe as the only ground.
So if a ground rod was installed and then "bonded" to the pipe,
wouldn't the pipe still act as sorta a second ground anyway (like
having 2 ground rods, maybe)?

As RBM said, the grounding electrodes form a system. Your water pipe and
the added ground rod are *both* grounding electrodes for your electrical
service. You could have more electrodes. Your added ground wires to
receptacles can be connected anywhere in that *system*. That includes
the service panel ground bar, the first 5 feet of the water pipe and the
heavy connecting wires to the water pipe and ground rod.

An added ground rod can be connected anywhere in the present water pipe
grounding electrode system (but there are rules). An added ground rod
would probably not be connected to the first 5 feet of water pipe (but
it could be) - there are usually better places to make the connection.

I would usually make added connections to the heavy connecting wires
using a split bolt (also known as a karnie).


As far as your comment about it would be ok to just attach the ground
wire to the first five feet of the pipe to ground the outlet, doesn't
that contradict what you previously have said about that would not
trip the breaker and wanted me to make sure the wire went back to the
panel?

I believe I said there has to be a *metal* path back to the panel.

What is not allowed is using the earth as part of the path - like
connecting your added ground wires only to a ground rod with no
additional metal path to the electrical service. I questioned using a
ground rod as "insurance" for a metal path because a ground rod (with
earth path) provides very bad "insurance".

--
bud--