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Pete C.

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:14:51 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

wrote:

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:49:33 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:22:38 -0400, "Mike Payne"
wrote:

I guess it's my job to disagree with most of the other posters. 15A
circuits let you work with 14 gauge wire. It is orders of magnitude easier
to wire outlets and lights with 14 rather than 12. I use 12 only for
workshops and kitchens where they might actually be needed.

That makes 2 of us. A friend tried to talk me into using #12 for
everything (as he'd done at his own place). When I told him that the
bulk of the long runs were one light per circuit, and that nearly all
of them would be 12W CFs, he started the "what about the next guy"
angle. Sheesh! If there's a next guy, and if he wants to use 150W
bulbs, and if he thinks that'll stress the #14, then too bad. :-)

Wayne

I have to disagree, I find the "workability" difference between 12 ga
and 14 ga virtually unnoticeable. 2 ga copper is a bit of a pain to deal
with, but much of anything below that is all the same to me.

I don't agree, but even if there was zero workability difference, that
wouldn't be a valid reason to spend even a nickel extra on a 12W
circuit, or any low-power circuit.

That would almost make sense if circuits always remained in the same
usage and with the same loads on them. When someone decides they need to
add something to the circuit or upgrade lighting things can change
dramatically and the 14ga circuit that was feeding the old circular
flouro in the kitchen may suddenly be feeding several halogen populated
cans and a pile of halogen under cabinet and soffit lighting in a
kitchen remodel.

Obviously one should take into account potential expansion, but that's
not a good reason to overdo *everything*. You're basically repeating
an extremely overused Usenet argument - "what about the next guy".
Doesn't make any sense in a lot of cases. For example, I have
something like 2 dozen pot lights, each on it's own circuit. If this
house ever has another owner, and they decide to add outlets into the
ceiling and plug in 100 times the wattage on some of those circuits...
But wait... isn't it just as likely that the next guy will end up in a
wheelchair? We should build ramps, etc.

More typically, I'm the first guy, and a few years later, the next guy.
I'm just as likely to expand or add something as some future owner. As
for the ramp thing, there are plenty of folks pushing for all new
construction to include such things. I don't agree with them by a long
shot, but ramps do come in handy for us otherwise able bodied folks who
tend to move a lot of heavy stuff around.

The only half-way reasonable
argument I've heard for using 12 on low-power circuits is that it's
more forgiving of bad workmanship. But anyone who needs that crutch
shouldn't be doing electrical work anyway.

I've never hear that, and can't even fathom the (il)logic behind it.

You might do some simple experiments with #12 and #14 wire. Pretend
you're a novice, and nick the wire when you strip it. Wrap it around a
screw connection, and then bend it back and forth like a novice does
when he's learning why he shouldn't try to stuff 5' of wire in a 1'
box. :-) You'll find that the 14 breaks easier than the 12.

I don't have any 14 ga solid wire. Everything I do is 12 ga or larger.

Lots of people (including me) waste money when they don't need to, but
we shouldn't encourage the newbs to do that. Ask any question on
Usenet, and far more people will tell you to overdo things than
underdo them. If a guy with a normal budget started building a home,
and followed the Usenet consensus on how to do it, he'd probably run
out of money before he finished the foundation. :-)

Perhaps, but I don't think the cost difference is that significant, even
with a complete home since you still can't use 14ga everywhere.

I probably used 1500 ft. of 14, and a lot less of everything else.
Everybody giving advice has something they think is worth "just a few
extra bucks", or "just a little extra work".

If you used that much 14 ga, you presumably have a larger than average
house, a poorly located main panel, or other unusual configuration of
things.