On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:12:13 -0400, George
wrote:

mm wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:49:15 -0400, George
wrote:

mm wrote:
A friend tells me tonight that if you subscribe to FIOS from Verizon,
at least when you use it for everything you have (tv, internet, phone,
or any subset) when they install the optical cable, they take out your
copper.

So that you can never go back.

I am no fan of phone companies but I don't see the point. FiOS is fiber
to the premise. They can run anything on it including phone service. So
there is little point for them to maintain a dual plant system of both
fiber optic and copper cabling.

Someday they'll probably take every thing out of the central office
that is needed to run on coppper, but until then, what maintenance is
required for a homeowner's little piece of wire that he's not using?
As a subscriber you buy a service. If you buy dial tone service I don't
see why it would matter if it were provisioned on copper or fiber. Or in

Doesn't it cost a lot more on Fios than what I have now?

Sure,

So that's why it would matter! Isn't it obvious that most people (all
people?) want to pay less for something if it is just as good. If I
have a temporary need for FIOS for tv or internet, I shouldn't allow
them to trick me (by meanss of some bundle or package the consequences
of which I don't understand) into FIOS for phone if that means that I
won't be able to go back to copper phone. Or if I have a permanent
need for high speed, it means that if I move out and rent or sell my
house, I will either have to hide this from a prospective renter (and
antagonize him in the process) or buyer, or I'll have to tell him and
risk losing the rental or sale when he finds out he'll have to pay for
FIOS, and that without paying an electrician can never get anything
cheaper, even though the people next door on both sides of him are
paying a lot less for phone.

but if they don't do it they will be out of business. The cable

That's not going to be for years and it's speculation in that there
are lots of ways to make money. For example, by advertising or by
normal demand they might get everyone to want FIOS, so that few or
none want to move backwards. Although I still have a dial phone
connected, I don't object to them taking out dial-capabilities now, or
even 10 years ago if it costs more than a trivial amount of money to
maintain.

As to going out of business, that's their problem a lot more than it
is my problem. As long as they sell the cheap, original version of
phone service, then people should know and protect themselves from
company policies. Where this applies, everyone should realize that
their intention will be to remove the copper if they put in FIOS for
everything.that's what I'm going to buy, and and if putting in FIOS
will cause them to

Maybe this policy should be regulated by law. Don't forget that the
phone company is a public utility. Don't let conservatives convince
you that nothing should be regulated. If they had their way, some
would want to remove all the building codes and let people build
anything they wanted, regardless of the fires, disease, and collapses
that resulted.

companies are deploying VoIP and essentially becoming phone companies.

Not removing copper doesn't change the equation. If FIOS is a better
product, enough people will want it that the phone company will do
fine.

If VOIP is better (which aiui, it's not) why is wrong if it wins?

Since they can do it over their existing cable plant they can offer it
for a lower cost because they don't need to install a new cable system
to do it. So it doesn't cost them a lot to become a competitive phone
service provider. If the phone companies don't respond with similar
bundled services they need to prepare for eventual shutdown.

That is their problem. I don't have to subvert my interests to
promote them.

mm

the case of DSL you are buying broadband data. Why would it matter to
you if it came via DSL on copper or over fiber?

I think DSL probably works better on fiber, but there wouldn't be any
improvement for voice phone calls.

If fios isn't more expensive, there is still the bit about power
failures. Why would one want to have to have a UPS to power fios,
even if it worked, when a copper wired phone requires no electicity
except what the phone company provides? It's nice when the power is
out and you can't watch tv and your UPS isn't big enough to spend more
than 10 minutes on the computer, to talk on the phone all night.