On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:19:53 GMT, (Dave Mundt) wrote:

Greetings and Salutations.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:32:18 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:40:11 +0800, Old Nick
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:35:07 -0500 (EST),
(DAUBIE1) vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

*snip*

Ah..not in the States you dont. The dummy gun is legally assumed to be
a real one in cases of self defense. This is one of the reasons toy
guns are required by law to have bright orange end of the barrel.

Another point, which I think I said before. If guns were harder to
get, then the punks would not have had guns.

Punks can always get guns. Always have, always will. Drugs are
illegal. Drugs and guns can be purchased on nearly any street corner.
Even in good old Blimey.

I have to agree here. Unless there is some way to magically
make not only guns, but, ammunition *and* the tools and materials to
MAKE guns (I.E. Steel pipe, etc) disappear from the world, there is
no way to keep someone who wants a gun from having one. Zip guns,
constructed from a bit of wood, sheet metal and steel pipe have been
made for decades (actually, on a side note, I was a bit amused to
see that ONE source on the Net for instructions on making such a
weapon, in the section on making a shotgun, says that to comply with
gun laws the barrel has to be at least 18" long)
While it might be a wonderful, utopian idea to look to a world
free of gun violence, realistically it is not going to happen. People
have been killing other people with tools as long as mankind has been
on the planet. This is likely to continue for as long as mankind
exists, because when push comes to shove, people are stupid and many
have poor impulse control.
I still maintain that the way to deal with this problem is
not by banning guns and gun ownership. Rather it is by a serious
effort on education and training - even, perhaps, instituting
manditory military service (as Israel and other countries do). I am
not fool enough to believe that this will eliminate gun violence in
America (if for no other reason because stress builds up in a diverse
society, and, stress can cause irrational actions). However, it would
make it harder for folks to work from a position of prejudice when
it comes to guns and their uses. Knowledge is power.

Another point. I can see where the watchmaker may be an angry *******.
But he has been wounded, Many have been killed instead, gun or not.

Yup..but those that fought back, went down swinging, or shooting,
rather than simply butchered like a sheep. And most win. Fighting
back generally makes the bad guy go away.

It seems to me that, in a simplistic fashion, there are
basically two types of people. 1) The Sheeple, who can be herded
about and killed with impunity because they are too bound up by their
own fears and worries. 2) The Guardians, who are the folks who
are willing (or stupid enough *smile*) to run into the burning
building to save someone else. Those are the folks that WILL
fight back.
Sometimes fighting back is the wrong answer, as it simply
infuriates the attacker and leads to worse results. However, in
MOST cases, I agree...fighting back makes a person less of an
attractive target.

Can we be sure that he was not being chosen simply _because_ he was a
challenge? Why would I rob a store that was famous for being
dangerous, when there are a hundred watchmakers in the town?

Criminals tend to be stupid. Incredibly so. Most have the brain power
of a ****ant. Common sense is rare among the breed. I used to be a
cop.

I have never been a cop, but, it has been my observation
that the idea of criminals LOOKING for a challenge is, in most cases,
nonsense. They tend to go for the EASY target. Given a choice
between a car that is locked and has the windows rolled up, and, an
unlocked car with the keys in the ignition, guess which one will
disappear faster?


As the watchmaker started to discover, all that was happening was
escalation; more and more and bigger and bigger guns.

So he simply should have been killed out of hand after the first one
or two robberies and it would have made you feel much better. Right?

Maybe so...it is always easier to know what is the best
way for SOMEBODY ELSE to live.

Dave Mundt

Excellent post.

Gunner

"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should
fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"