On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:32:39 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Top of the range
trade tools are a waste of money for DIY.

Not necessarily. It depends on a number of factors:

a) The quality, accuracy and ease of use of each
b) The reliability
c) Productivity as measured by whether the job can be completed more
quickly and/or to a better standard.
d) The trade off between time and cost for the purchaser.

All the above can be achieved with decent DIY tools.

They were all deliberately illustrations of relative and not absolute
criteria. In most cases, I can produce better results with a trade
quality tool than with a DIY tool, the accuracy is usually better, as
is the ease of use. I can normally get the job done, to a higher
standard, more quickly.



You were on about down time. Two
cheapish tools, compared to trade tools
does not give down time.

That's a fallacy because of course it does at some point.
Let's assume that a cheap tool will fail in half the time of the
quality one. Your argument is that when the cheap tool fails, you
can pick up the second one and keep going.

Correct. No down time. Simple!

Except that the issues are not.

However, the argument is more complex
than that.

Must be warped logic coming.....

Not really, but whether you would be able to follow is another matter.


If you throw away
both cheap tools when they fail, then
you have incurred no cost in
going to get them fixed. If you wish to
invoke the warranty, then it
is going to cost time and money to do so.

Tsk, tsk. When a tool is down you take it back if under warrantee at a
convenient time and have it changed or repaired. Or if out of guarantee buy
another.

All of which take time and effort and that costs money as far as I am
concerned. If you don't cost your time and are looking only at cash
outlay then the argument may be different.



However, the quality tool, apart
from most likely providing a better
and faster result,

A "trade" tool, get the terminology right, will not do a better job than a
decent DIY tool, unless it is a high precision tool which is a different
thing.

It of course depends on the specific tool, but in general a trade or
industrial tool is manufactured to a higher standard than a DIY tool
because it either has to do a more accurate job, be able to be used
ofr longer at a time and have a longer lifetime.


Little DIY requires very high precision.

Bull****. That entirely depends on the standards that one wants to
achieve and the time to be taken in doing so.


It maybe will last longer
in running hours, but DIY tools don't run that much in comparison.

That depends on the individual and the tool.



will be worth getting repaired or the spares to fix
when it does eventually fail.

Trade tools cost the earth to get repaired.

Not in my experience and with good branded tools, the spares are
available anyway.

Even pros don't bother much
these days,

Do you know any?


So if I take that route, it represents
better value for money taken over a period of time.

Wrong. In running hours maybe, not time, as DIY tools don't run that often.

No, right. However, it does depend on what the individual wishes to
achieve, as well as how much use the product gets. As I pointed
out, if you don't value your time and absolute cash spend is the
number one factor, then cheap tools may be interesting. If I can buy
something that will last for at least 5 years without more than basic
care as opposed to something at half the price with a 2 year warranty
that fails after 2 or even 3 years then I consider the more expensive
tool to be better value because I have not had to waste time taking it
back.



Moreover, if more has been paid for
the item then it is much more
reasonable to expect a high level of
service.

Makita is at times crap.

All manufacturers produce crap at some point, whether it be a
manufacturing or a design defect. I know with a good quality tool
purchased from a reputable retailer that I am going to get any issues
resolved very quickly or a refund. With a cheap store brand tool,
there is every likelihood that the model has changed and spares are no
longer easily obtained. OK, so a 3 year warranty is expected to
cover that. These are calculated by either building the cost into
the product price tag (implying it is even worse than would appear) or
that people won't bother to take them back.

Case in point. I purchased a DW biscuit jointer from Axminster
something over a year ago. It had a design defect with the fence
resulting in incorrect angle setting. I returned it and received a
refund with no issues at all including a refund of the return carriage
cost. I replaced it with a Lamello which is an excellent tool.





---

..andy

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