Tbone wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:42:20 GMT, Dale Scroggins
wrote:


Tbone wrote:

Jim
I'm curious why you keep using the term "draft dodger" when the guy
was a reservist.
Reservist make up a large part of the forces in Iraq..are they "draft
dodgers" too??
Doesn't make sense to me!

You must be a youngster, Tbone.

During the Vietnam era, joining the National Guard or Reserve guaranteed
that you were very unlikely to ever see combat. Or leave your home
state, more than likely. It wasn't really a war, you see. We were
merely assisting the RSVN with some training, hardware, and a few
troops. No need to call up the reserves or Guard.

Here's the drill from the '60s. You turn 18, and graduate high school,
you're eligible for the draft. You could, however, enroll in college
and be given a student deferment. But you had to keep your grades up
and make progress, or the college would notify your local draft board.

Or you could, early in the decade, get married. The marriage deferment
fell out of favor, though, so besides marriage, the wife needed to be
pregnant. Serious business.

George W. was about to lose his student deferment. He had been in
school the maximum number of semesters, I think, and had barely kept the
requisite grade point to keep his deferment. But that student deferment
was about to expire. He could either marry an already pregnant female
or join the reserves.

Joining the reserves or National Guard was a real problem for most of
us, though. Since membership in either one almost guaranteed a nice,
safe, uneventful stay here in the states, a LOT of young men saw that as
an attractive option. So all units, nationwide, were entirely, totally
full, with two- to three-year waiting lists. Understandable, right?

Funny thing, though. Regular fellows signed up for the waiting lists,
but they never moved up. Our local Guard unit suddenly became populated
by the sons of postmasters, judges, elected officials, and bank
presidents. Guys, on a lesser scale, like Dan Quail and George W. For
some reason, they didn't have to wait their turn.

My four older brothers simply enlisted when their time came. When my
turn came, the military didn't seem to appreciate the miracles of modern
medicine [a couple of pounds of stainless steel in various joints (metal
working content ;-))]. All my brothers were bright, and ended up doing
technical jobs. Two made careers and retired. They all survived, but
carry scars. No purple hearts, just scars.

George W., two weeks away from losing his student deferment, decided to
join an Air Force reserve unit. A COOL one, with fighters and
everything. Had to to take a test, though. Scored a 25, barely
acceptable. Was sworn in the day he applied. Some anonymous captain
swore him in. A couple of days later, the wing commander reenacted the
swearing-in for the benefit of the press. What do you reckon the odds
are that the reserve unit had a waiting list, full of more qualified
young men?

The military during the Viet Nam era was manned by draftees and
enlistees who found the draft to be a persuasive motivator. Forces were
built up slowly, over years, so the draft worked well. We didn't have a
draft for this Iraq war, nor an army big enough to sustain the
occupation, so activating the Guard and reserves couldn't be avoided.
We may yet see a political price paid for their activation, the price
feared by Johnson and Nixon.

Joining a Guard or reserve unit in the '60s and '70s was an excellent
method of avoiding the draft and combat. 'Taint so, now. But it was
then.

Clear enough?

Dale Scroggins





Nope but wish I could consider 59 a youngster!

Obviously I grew up in that era and had neighbors (when I was a
youngster) that served with the guard in Korea much like Nam.

So, as you remember it, the Guard unit from your area served in both
Korea and Viet Nam? I would believe Korea, since the full-time military
had been reduced drastically from WW II levels, and the war moved too
fast for a draft to fill the need. But Viet Nam? Your local Guard unit
served in Viet Nam? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Had a lot of friends that joined the guard to keep working at their
educations and never heard of "year long waiting list" in Texas anyway
or those guys being called draft dodgers.

So they joined the Guard AND attended college? Nothing like being on
the safe side, I guess. And no waiting list either, even in the late
'60s and early '70s? If your memory reflects conditions before 1967,
maybe so. But if anyone could get in during the time George W. was
looking for a way out of the war, then Texas was truly a different kind
of place from Arkansas. I always thought they were a lot alike, with
traditions of military service going back a hundred years or more, but
maybe not. Maybe the Texans were much more eager to serve in the active
military during Viet Nam, leaving their local Guard units searching for
recruits. Could be, I guess. You know more about that than I do.

There are several things that the admin has done that really **** me
off but coming on with political spin of draft dodger is bull ****.

Clear enough??!!

What, exactly, was a "draft dodger" in 1970? Would you consider someone
who decided to attend college for the sole reason to avoid military
service a "draft dodger"? The small state college I attended during
those years (after finding out I was "unfit" for service) more than
doubled in enrollment in less than five years. After the war, it
returned to pre-war enrollment figures. Female enrollment didn't change
much during the war. So what were all those male students doing there?

Same thing with Guard recruitment. Apparently, in all states except
Texas, young men were beating down the door at Guard units all over the
country. After the war, lots of units began having trouble filling
slots. Why were all these young men so interested in joining the Guard
during those years?

You apparently believe these young men were not trying to "dodge" the
draft. I believe they were. And I believed it in 1970, long before the
term "political spin" came into use. So who brainwashed me back in 1970?

Dale Scroggins