Thanks to you for the point by point reply and RBM and all . I will check
the points you make about splices and such but I haven't seen any evidence
of it. John


"volts500" wrote in message
ups.com...
John F. F. wrote:
Hello toAll...............As the original poster on the K&T and cloth
wiring
questions I certainly appreciate all the input and observations. First
when
I sell the house I will definitely repost the results as requested. As
to
the insurance. I only purchased the house ( upstate NY) 5 years ago and
I
bought full fire/casualty/etc. insurance and had no problems insuring
it.
From what I've read here I certainly don't want to deal with State Farm
in
spite of their commercials. However, I am still unclear what changing
to
breaker panel does for me (with the exception that it will look more
modern)

In your case, since you are selling, some lending institutions (such as
government backed loans) may require a minimum 100 amp service.
Something to be aware of anyway, not that you should have it done now
for that reason, but at least it won't be a surprise should it pop up
during the sale. Many realtors have electrician's in there pocket just
for such and prices tend to be higher simply because they know it's
holding up the show and many people will just say "do it." Take the
electrician who quoted you $1500(US) for an upgrade. IMO, for a 100
amp service, the bid is about $500 too high. In my area, for $1500 one
can get a 200 amp service.

Additionally, if you decide to upgrade, I would recommend no less than
a 125 amp service because, should electric central heat or air be
desired in the future, the service calc. usually comes in over 100
amps.

if the current wiring still remains ungrounded.

Upgrading the service will also allow new circuits to be added. The
old fuse panels are usually only a Main/Range and 4 (circuits). K&T
circuits are usually limited to 15 amps. Even with gas appliances, the
kitchen should have a minimum of two 20 amp circuits. Window air
conditioners sometimes create an overload situation on 15 amp circuits.
With K&T/fuses the usual tendency for homeowners/tenants is to throw
in larger fuses. Not good. In fact, electrician's are required by NEC
to install Type "S" fuse adapters if they see evidence of fuse
tampering.

Also if I do run "green"
wire to the current fuse panel ground and then change the receptacles to
3-prong will I now be in violation because the K&T and cloth would no
longer have ungrounded 2-prong receptacles?

No, that's the purpose of running the green wire, upgrading. An NEC
accepted alternative is to install a GFCI at the first outlet, feed
through it downstream and install regular 3 prong outlets on the rest
of the circuit, marking them with the stickers that come with the GFCI
receptacle as "no ground."

IMO, it's a waste of time to install just a green wire. Whatever it
takes to install Romex is going to be the same as installing just a
green wire. You'll be glad that you spent the extra $300 for the
Romex, plus you will be able to get in some needed kitchen circuits.

Also because all the wiring is
grandfathered and no work has been done to it the NYS real estate board
says
that this does NOT require to be disclosed as a major defect nor
because
someone says it is a major defect. The reason I checked this was that
the
(now fired) real estate woman who had decided to appoint herself as the
authority on all things electrical and structural insisted I add the
wiring as a MAJOR PROBLEM. Be all that as it may however, I would like
to
come up with a solution if there is one that wasn't just "tear it all
out".
I'd rather not spend 15% of the selling price just to say to a buyer
look
new panel. Once again thanks for all the input. John

A good point made by another poster, if you have blown-in insulation,
it results in a serious code violation with K&T....something many
people are not aware of and salespeople tend to say nothing about.
Also, you might want to take a peak in the attic and/or basement to see
if the old cloth covered cable was spliced into the K&T without using
boxes, another serious code violation.

I know that you don't want to hear it, but IMHO, K&T and cloth covered
cable has had it's day and the "phase out" has been extended by NEC
long enough.