So, what sort of exposure is dangerous? I weld less than 1 lb. a week
(probably less than 1 lb. a month) of stick as a hobbyist; am I in
danger of manganism?

What sort of respirator is adequate for this level of exposure -- is a
particulate mask sufficient, or does one need something more?

(MMonheit) wrote in message om...
(Paul Wakfer) wrote in message . com...
(MMonheit) wrote in message . com...
I am seeking to obtain copies of MSDS sheets for welding rods and
welding wire, used in manufacturing. In particular, I am looking for
older warnings given on the welding rods and wires. Anyone having
older MSDS sheets, please contact me.

This is very important, as it relates to wedlers who have contracted a
Parkinson-like disease from the use of these welding rods and wires,
and who we believe were given inadequate warnings given on the MSDS
sheets. We need to obtain these sheets in order to help these welders
in their claims against the manufacturers of these rods and wires.

-Mike

If the manufacturers of the welding rods and wire provided full
information about the potential toxicity of their products then they
are blameless. It is the employers of those affected workers who did
not give their workers sufficient cautionary information, risk pay,
handling and breathing equipment, and/or limited time exposure who you
should ethically go after.

--Paul Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting

Paul,
Makes sense, to blame the employe, if the manufacturer gave adequate
warnings... But they don't give adequate warning. In fact, just the
opposite.

As early as 1972, there is a documented deception and lack of full
disclosure from the industry. Under oath, the president of Lincoln in
1972 admitted that he wrote a memo advising to, and I am paraphrasing,
"not let the word out about the dangers."

Even today, the MSDS is not adequate. For example, regarding
Manganese, the warning reads, "Long-term (chronic) overexposure to
welding fumes can lead to siderosis (iron deposits in lung) and may
affect pulmonary function. Manganese
overexposure can affect the central nervous system, resulting in
impaired speech and movement. Bronchitis and some lung fibrosis have
been
reported. Repeated exposure to fluorides may cause excessive
calcification of the bone and calcification of ligaments of the ribs,
pelvis and spinal
column. May cause skin rash."

But they don't say that the problem is irreversible. That is it
progressive.

ALL THEY SAY IS... "can affect the central nervous system, resulting
in impaired speech and movement". Here is what Manganism really is...

Mangansim is a disease which is very much like Parkinson's Disease in
its clinical presentation. It manifests with symptoms of fixed gaze,
bradykinesia, postural difficulty, tremor, rigidity and a decrease in
mental status. These are all traits of parkinsonism.

This is troublesome, since these symptoms were first associated with
manganese exposure in the scientific literature in 1837. Manganese,
when
exposed to the brain, can cause reductions of dopamine,
norepinephrine, and neuromelanin. It also causes neuronal loss and
gliosis in several areas of the brain. These, too, are characteristic
of parkinsonism.

Manganism is often irreversible, but can be reversed if it is
recognized and arrested in an early stage. It is typically defined in
three stages.4 The initial stage is vague. It is typified by malaise,
apathy, lethargy, anorexia and headaches.5 These symptoms are totally
nonspecific, and can be explained away as depression, physical or
mental exhaustion, or even the flu. This stage
is reversible. If the exposure can be discontinued, typically there
are no permanent sequellae.

If, however, exposure continues, then the symptoms will worsen, and
will manifest as impaired memory and judgment, psychological
disturbance, anxiety and possibly psychotic/hallucinogenic events
(sometimes called "manganese madness"). This stage can last from 30 to
90 days. On the effects of black oxide of magnesium when inhaled into
the lungs.

The third stage is the actionable phase, insofar as litigation is
concerned. In this stage, there is extremity dystonia, gait
disturbance, tremor, paresis, impaired coordination and facial
rigidity. Once the victim reaches this stage, the condition is
irreversible, and leads to complete disability. The condition mimics
Parkinson's disease, but is not totally identical. The differences
are subtle, but important to the legal causation analysis. First, the
tremor is called "intention tremor" in Manganism. This means that the
tremor is most pronounced while the victim is actively using various
muscles. In parkinsonism it is called a "resting tremor." Second, the
dystonia that is often associated with manganism is not generally
present in Parkinson's disease. Therapeutic doses of levodopa therapy
can impact on Parkinson's disease, but have no effect
upon manganism. Third, the areas of the brain that are affected differ
between the two conditions. In the manganism victim, the striatum and
globus palidus are the most likely affected areas. Conversely, in the
Parkinson's disease patient, it is the substantia nigra which is most
affected. In the Parkinson patient, the striatum and globus palidus
demonstrate only reduced dopamine concentrations.

NONE OF THIS IS IN THE MSDS. Thus, perhaps a code of silence between
the manufacturer and the employer. But by no means a full disclosure,
that is intended to reach the workers and allow them to take those
steps, e.g. through their unions, to gain protection at work.

Best,

Mike