(MMonheit) wrote in message om...
(Paul Wakfer) wrote in message . com...
(MMonheit) wrote in message . com...
I am seeking to obtain copies of MSDS sheets for welding rods and
welding wire, used in manufacturing. In particular, I am looking for
older warnings given on the welding rods and wires. Anyone having
older MSDS sheets, please contact me.

This is very important, as it relates to wedlers who have contracted a
Parkinson-like disease from the use of these welding rods and wires,
and who we believe were given inadequate warnings given on the MSDS
sheets. We need to obtain these sheets in order to help these welders
in their claims against the manufacturers of these rods and wires.

-Mike

If the manufacturers of the welding rods and wire provided full
information about the potential toxicity of their products then they
are blameless. It is the employers of those affected workers who did
not give their workers sufficient cautionary information, risk pay,
handling and breathing equipment, and/or limited time exposure who you
should ethically go after.

--Paul Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting

Paul,
Makes sense, to blame the employe, if the manufacturer gave adequate
warnings... But they don't give adequate warning. In fact, just the
opposite.

As early as 1972, there is a documented deception and lack of full
disclosure from the industry. Under oath, the president of Lincoln in
1972 admitted that he wrote a memo advising to, and I am paraphrasing,
"not let the word out about the dangers."

Even today, the MSDS is not adequate. For example, regarding
Manganese, the warning reads, "Long-term (chronic) overexposure to
welding fumes can lead to siderosis (iron deposits in lung) and may
affect pulmonary function. Manganese
overexposure can affect the central nervous system, resulting in
impaired speech and movement. Bronchitis and some lung fibrosis have
been
reported. Repeated exposure to fluorides may cause excessive
calcification of the bone and calcification of ligaments of the ribs,
pelvis and spinal
column. May cause skin rash."

But they don't say that the problem is irreversible. That is it
progressive.

[sniped additional details]

I am posting from sci.life-extension and I am quite familiar with the
health effects of overdoses of manganese. In fact, that is one of the
reasons why I do not take certain mineral supplement combinations from
a supplier from which I get them for free.

If you are correct about the negligence and fraud of the
manufacturers, then I do agree with going after them for restitution.
However, I would still maintain that the more correct way to proceed
is to sue the employers and then to the extent that the employers are
blameless with respect to giving information and providing protection,
etc, they (the employers) should sue the manufacturers for fraudulent
sales of the products involved.

NONE OF THIS IS IN THE MSDS.

This is somewhat surprising since MSDSs that I have seen all have the
very worst case situations portrayed. All that one needs to do is look
at the MSDS for plain table salt (sodium chloride:
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm )
to see that. As always, "the dose makes the poison". Such worst
possible cases are generally included *precisely* so that the chemical
supplier is protected from any future blame for the mishandling of his
product by those who use it.

Thus, perhaps a code of silence between
the manufacturer and the employer. But by no means a full disclosure,
that is intended to reach the workers and allow them to take those
steps, e.g. through their unions, to gain protection at work.

One point that perhaps you and others are not aware is that the MSDS
is prepared by the manufacturer of the product according to a
government promulgated format. Therefore, different manufacturers may,
and generally will have somewhat different MSDSs.

--Paul Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting