PipeDown wrote:
Porcelain tile has a pretty consistant thickness so they couldn't use that
as an excuse if it were natural stone, I could understand. The defect you
are describing is called lippage. The problem is not about being level it is
all about being flat.

Sounds like the primary fault is in trying to bring up the level of the
floor by using extra thinset. They should have leveled the floor at the
height they wanted then tiled in two seperate steps. The thick bed of
thinset makes it extremely difficult to make the tiles perfectly level.

You probably won't be able to recover the tile for reuse. Even if they
manage to get them up unbroken, the remaining thinset stuck to the bottom
will make it even harder to maintain a flat floor, the labor to restore each
tile will exceed the replacement cost. Rest assured, they will not make any
money on your job now.




wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello,

My contractor has just finished laying Porcelain 20" x 20" tile in our
kitchen and nook area (approximately 320 square feet). Our house is
only 5 years old and the tile was laid on concrete slab. The slab
initially had linoleum on it which was removed before laying the new
Porcelain tile.

The problem was that the tile looked somewhat uneven after it was laid.
After allowing 24 hours to set, we were allowed to walk on it and
could immediately tell by feel that many of the tiles were not level
with adjoining tiles. Using a level across adjoining tiles confirmed
this. I even did a "sliding chair" test where I would try to slide a
chair across the kitchen. The chair would hit the uneven tiles and
stop and tip over. Obviously, this is now a hazard.
As a result, we are having the contractor rip out the entire 320 square
feet and do it again.

It seemed to me that since they were laying tile on 5 year old conrete
slab, this should have been a pretty standard task. Their explanation
for the uneven tile heights was not clear, At first, they seemed to
try and explain it by saying the concrete slab was unlevel, but I told
them that seemed unlikely with a 5 year old slab. Furthermore, I said
they could have leveled it with screed or some kind of leveling
compound fiirst. Then they said that they were trying to match the
tile height with the adjacent room's hardwood floor height by using
extra thinset under the tiles and as a result, some tiles ended up
unlevel with others.

Anyway, they are doing it over again at no cost to me, but my questions
are as follows:
1) Is there any reason to believe that they cannot lay the tile in a
level manner on a concrete
slab that is only 5 years old?
2) The thinset from the initial tile installation has dried for about
72 hours now. Can the tile be removed without damage? And if they can
remove the tile without damage, does that mean they didn't put enough
thinset to begin with?
3)Other than feel and the sliding chair test, is there a better way to
quickly check the floor for uneven tiles?
4) How much uneveness is acceptable? I realize that the tiles cannot
be laser flat with respect to one another, but how much uneveness
should I accept?

Thank you for any information you may provide.



Right on - I was surprised when I got to the section of the original
post when it was asked about re-use of original tiles. It never even
occured to me that this would be possible unless they have virtually no
contact with the thinset (not likely)

To the original poster

The age of the concrete floor really has nothing to do with it. If the
original is flat then the new tile floor should be relatively flat. Even
with new tile I would be concerned about making the floor flat now that
it has thinset all over it. I have never had to remove tile from
concrete but I would imagine its a real bitch. How much evenness is
acceptable? That depends on the tile of course. Your tile is pretty
consistent in thickness, I assume, so I would at least expect each tile
to be within 1/16" to 3/32" of the adjacent tile. 20x20 tiles present
their own challenges (I'm in the middle of a project with 12x24 tiles).
I would say get a 2' or 3' straight edge and compare a tile to its
adjacent one. If you use a level ignore the bubble. You are not trying
to make them level, just flat relative to the next one. Since the tile
man is doing the replacement on his dime I suspect he agrees with you
about the un-evenness. I would ask him what he thinks is an acceptable
height difference between tiles.

Also - As I'm sure you know - The grout is not level with the surface of
the tile and you will not have a smooth surface. Your chairs may still
rock and skip across the grout joints. I would add felt bottoms to the
chair legs to ensure you do not scratch the tile plus it makes them
quieter when sliding around.

Good luck - Post some pictures when its done and buy your contractor a
case of beer when finished for making it right. Despite his laborer who
screwed up it seems he is a stand up guy.

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