According to :
Anyway -- the 5C collets *cannot* be mounted in *your* lathe's
spindle. It is too small. You need at least a 1-3/8" bore through the
spindle to accept a 5C collet and drawbar. And -- you could never get a
properly sized machine for that up your stairs. So -- you will need to
use smaller collets in your spindle -- or get a Bison collet chuck head
to put the collets in place of a chuck on the end of your spindle.
Yes, I've seen the Bisons. But you originally recommended the 5C
collets, so I assume that is because the size(3/4") I mentioned I
wanted to work with would require the 5C type.
I recommended the 5C collets because that is the only size in
which the collet blocks are made which you would need to accomplish
milling a square on a workpiece without an index head.
I *know* that they will not fit your lathe directly, and I feel
that a Bison collet chuck may not be steady enough on such a small
spindle, as it sticks way out where it is more subject to chatter from
the spindle flexing.
Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located
in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in
an end mill holder in the spindle instead.
With the tool in an end-mill holder -- *not* in the chuck --
whether it is a lathe chuck or a drill chuck.
I'm going to try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7592207825
Providing the chuck jaws open at least 2.4 inches.
I don't consider this to be any better than the Bison collet
chuck in terms of rigidity. And I *think* that the only way to chuck
that in your late is with reversed jaws, which produce too little grip
for that amount of extension.
Funny how "Less then .0002 total run-out" is mentioned, when that
really means little on a set up like that.
That figure is quite important in a normal spindle nose collet
adaptor, but it is meaningless held in a 3-jaw chuck. (You might be
able to get away with a 4-jaw chuck, if you take time to carefully
center it each time you use it -- but the Bison would at least be more
convenient -- and one with the adjust-tru feature should require setting
only once.
I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too
bad. :-)
[ ... ]
Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to
six).
Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets.
And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and
apparently lost somehow.
Hmmm. It definitely didn't show up on Google Groups(or Interbulletin).
It must have vanished somewhere in the chain *before* it reached the
newsgroups.
It may have been in the e-mail which was trying to go to an old
and no longer good e-mail address -- which you *still* have in your
newsgroup "From: " header.
Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box
yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-)
Take it out *now* and start using it. It will help you answer
some of your questions, and refine others before you ask them.
With no tooling yet I'd have to wait. I don't want to start this first
project, and have to stop and do more research to determine what I am
missing so I can continue.
You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it
out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you
have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and
it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial
workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make.
Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more
things which you may need to do them.
Explain to her that what she appears to be calling "Starrett
Micrometers" are in reality Starrett "speed indicators".
She didn't seem like the type that you could explain that too. :-)
Sigh!
BTW. Just to give you an idea of where I'm at. The following is my list
of things to get.(At least most of them). The items with question marks
are things I haven't decided on yet and still researching. The one's
with the asterisks are pretty much decided upon.
Tool Post
* AXA QC(Wedge Style))
Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height
properly.
Tool Holders-For 5/16" shanks(Unless 3/8" is possible)
The AXA holders should accept at least 1/2" shanks. 5/8" is
for the BXA size of toolpost and holders. 3/4" for the CXA size. I
consider 1/2" to be the minimum. 5/16" and 3/8" are too small.
* A) Turning holder
* B) Facing
* C) Boring holder
Typically, the turning and facing holders are pretty much the
same. The boring ones will have a V bottom groove to hold round shanked
boring bars. (And the larger ones will be made to hold even larger
boring bars -- I think up to 7/8" for the AXA series. I know that I can
hold 1" ones in my BXA holders.
* D) Cut-off(Parting) holder
Yes. Add in a T-profile paring tool to go in that holder.
Cobalt steel. The "Mo-Max brand is what I use. Expensive, but good.
* E) Threading(Inside/Outisde) holder
Those are the same as the boring/facing holders. (Though the
tooling which goes in them is different.)
* F) 5C Collet Tool Holder
Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills,
you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your
lathe spindle's taper.
For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and
the lathe chucks for what you are turing in the spindle.
* G) Morse Taper Tool Holder
O.K. As above.
* H) DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder?
They are made. Look for a Morse taper holder which fits the
toolpost. You may have to go to genuine Aloris for this. Make the
Morse taper the same as what you have in the tailstock, so you can use
the same drill chuck in there.
I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder?
Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading.
You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be
more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or
internal threading.
Lathe Tools(Indexable where possible)
* A) Facing
* B) Turning
The tools are the same -- other than the angle. Look at the
Aloris AXA-16N, which will hold two triangular carbide inserts, one for
turning and one for facing in the same holder. I have the BXA
equivalent and use it much of the time. Because of the 'N' in the part
name, it accepts negative rake insert tooling, which is available with a
groove which lets you actually use it as positive rake tooling in the
negative rake holder. This gives you six corners which you can use
before replacing the insert Rotate it for three, then flip it over.
(Assuming that you have not broken the insert with a crash.)
* C) Boring(3/8)
* D) Threading(Outside)
* E) Threading(Inside)
Insert tooling for D and E, and maybe for C.
Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in
one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break
easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the
inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones.
* F) Cut-off(Parting)?
I've given my advice above with the holder.
G) Grooving?
You can do some of this with the parting tool, as long as it is
not too narrow.
H) Chip Breaker?
Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit
which you grind yourself.
I) Tool ground?
You mean HSS (High Speed Steel)? Get some of those for things
for which there is no insert tooling available, or when you need
especially sharp (good finish on some plastics.)
J) Trepanning tool?
Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for
a given need.
K) Fly cutter?
For finishing large surfaces with a mill. I don't think that a
lathe set up as a mill will be rigid enough for the task.
L) Radii Cutter?
Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most
of them aren't the right size for your machine.
M) Rotary Burrs(Shape D & A)?
I don't know the shapes by name. But beware that they produce
nasty sharp chips.
End Mill Holder(For MT3 spindle)
Several -- for the different sizes of end mills which you need
to use.
Milling Tools(Indexable where possible)
* 2 Flute End Mill?
2 flute for milling slots, among other things.
* 1/4" Ball-End Mill?
For special shaping, or half-round bottomed grooves.
Face Mill?
*Not* with a lathe acting as a milling machine. Those take a
*lot* of power. Probably not with *any* milling machine which you can
get up to your apartment.
Boring head & shank?
Again -- better used with a true milling machine, rather than in
a lathe. For boring on a lathe, you normally mount the workpiece in a
chuck, or on a faceplate, and turn it, while boring.
End Mill Grinding Fixture?
Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not,
the fixture won't do you any good.
5C Precision 3-Jaw Chuck?
These are small 3-jaw chucks mounted on a 5C collet shank. They
are nice for quickly fitting a small 3-jaw chuck to a large lathe
spindle. I don't see any benefit to you from one at present.
* 5C Collets(round)
* 5C Collet Blocks(4 & 6)?
Yes -- for milling square or hex shapes.
* 5C Collet Chuck
Perhaps -- for light work with larger workpieces.
5C Collet stops?
Useful if you want to do production which requires a bunch of
workpieces all set to the same depth in the collets. Probably won't
work well with the collet block.
2 PINION LOW PROFILE BISON 5" 5C COLLET CHUCK?
I don't know this one. Unless it is the standard one from
Bison. Better to get the one with the adjust-tru feature. This allows
you to tune out any remaining error in concentricity.
* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).
?
* Morse Taper Sleeve 3MT to 2MT
O.K.
* Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
* Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
Good.
* Face Plate
Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two
*should* come standard with it, but probably don't.
* MT2 Live Ball Bearing Center
* Drill chuck & Arbor(2MT to 33JT)
O.K.
* Center Drills #1,2,3,4,5
* T-Slot Cleaners
Do you have any T-slots yet? Until you get a milling machine,
you probably don't need this -- and if you *do* need it, you need one to
fit your T-slots on your mill. They come in different sizes.
* Chucking Reamers
* 60 Degree Center Reamer Set
???
5" 4-Jaw Chuck(w/adaptor)?
O.K. Large but it should fit the machine.
lathe Dog?
Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.
Milling Attachment?
If you can find one for your machine -- or adapt one made for a
machine of similar size.
Rotary Table?
Dividing Head?
Index Plates?
Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will
determine the size of what you want to get.
* Micrometer
* Telescoping gauges
* Run-out indicator
Protractor
Angle Gauge Set
A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you
really are able to machine with your equipment.
Depth Gauge
Divider
Machinists Scriber
Trammel
This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.
BTW Consider a hermaphrodyte caliper as one of the useful divider
class tools.
Tapping(Tapper) Wrench?
Multiple ones -- for different sizes of taps. Small ones won't
hold large taps. Large ones are too difficult to control well to avoid
breaking small taps.
Die?
Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die
for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the
lathe.)
Bench Block? + ?
Hand Reamers?
Cutting/Tapping fluid?
Bandsaw?
Bench Grinder?
How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small
machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw,
and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect.
Good luck,
DoN.
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