Frank,

I for one think your input is and has been very valuable. It provides the
technical expertise as well as the sense of the corporate culture behind
what Delta does and why. There's some good information being provided
here - from both points of view and it's been meaningful and I hope to read
your counter-points as well as Greg's findings. Yep, he's biased....it's his
money but he's made the decision to give Delta another try.

You may not like some of his assumptions (how it was damaged and when, etc.)
but the fact remains, he ended up with a damaged tablesaw which indicated it
was not assembled correctly to begin with. You, pointed out a thing or two
out that shows it takes more than a gorilla with a hammer to align the inner
workings of one of these Uni's and some of the rationale behind Delta's
design decisions (UL approvals, etc.).

This is one of the better threads - real information, in almost real time
from knowledgeable individuals.....it doesn't get any better than
this......;-)

Bob S.


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:13:26 -0500, Greg wrote:

Oh, No! Why didn't he get a General...or a Jet...or anything but a
Delta.........

Already a couple of statements of fact based on assumptions or
opinions that are not accurate, however, not terribly relevant either
and I plan to only react to the important if at all

Frank.


Since that last review went over so well... :-\

I'm breaking this up into sections so that I may assimilate the
backlash in bite-sized nuggets. And for you who missed it - Great!

Agree or disagree, but as Sergeant Friday says, Just the Facts, Ma'am.
If in error, you may call me on it, but it's a report, not brand
debate. I have found other's "real world" assessments of tools very
helpful in selecting a product from the myriad available. I have read
reviews in the rags that, upon viewing the object of their glowing
affection, have provoked the question, "Are we talking about the same
widget here? And just what criteria are they using?" Sarcasm and
humor may (or may not?) accompany this information. This is as much
for entertainment's sake as for information. Benchmarks have long
been a part of my life in the electronics and computer biz, so...

A salesman once told me, "I hate those magazines. I just can't make
their readers happy." And as I pondered his dilemma, I considered
the variabilities between machines, potential mis-interpretation of
the data, and the "Slick Willy" factor and came to the conclusion that
he may or may not be right.

So, here we are...

Came close to just selling it all - too much aggravation and expense.
And there is no point in having this stuff if the primary tool of use
is such a POS that you don't want to use it, or go deaf from trying.

So, I again went in quest of the "Ultimate Affordable Cabinet Saw."
Decided to look around at other brands - I looked at Lobo's,
General's, Jets, Powermatics. I looked in the paper for gnused. And
came to the conclusion that, for me, the Delta Unisaw refurb unit was
worth another shot. Wasn't about to wait on delivery trucks, freight
damage claims, or shipment of missing and broken parts. I wasn't
going to spend $2200 on a cabinet saw. And like the kid in the candy
store, I wanted it NOW. So please, spare me the web referrals and the
"Here's what I got". I appreciate the gesture, but it's not germane.
Everything in life is a collection of compromises. G

And since the results are being held to a higher standard, I'll
briefly touch upon the methodology used to obtain the sample.

I like simple, durable, uncomplicated machines. No gilmer belt driven
height adjusters, no plastic internals, no off-the-wall imported parts
you can't find replacements for in 3 years. No parts that have been
re-engineered every season in concert with marketing hyperbola.

Just Big, Dumb, and Strong. Like my women. ducking...
And that about sums up the Delta Unisaw - so far.
(And if anyone wants an Old Chicago 16", 3HP for $400, let me know.)

The requirements were :
Left tilt, 2-5 HP, long, sturdy fence with cursor on the right side of
the fence and 36" or greater ripping capacity. Ease of obtaining
replacement parts. Durabil... Oh, we covered that already.

Anyone who has read my other longwinded, bombastic reviews knows that
I generally check a few pertinent characteristics with basic measuring
instruments. In this case, a replacement Delta Unisaw was obtained on
the chance that I simply "got a bad one", and this is my assessment of
that replacement. My critiques of Delta's Q.C. are still applicable,
and I still feel that a multistage Q.C. is a necessity when working
with beings as inconsistent as humans, and that a unit in that
condition should have been caught. It's far too expensive to ship
defective products around the country, especially in light of current
fuel costs, and is simply a good business model. So it costs you a
round of golf. JMHO.

Unit had been demo'd. But the top was apparently re-ground.
You guys should really wash the grinding dust out of the extension
table holes before re-assembling the unit. Grey grit makes an
annoying job, well... annoying. So, boys and girls, clean those
threads and make your life much easier. I used solvent and a rag,
rolled into a point to probe out what I could. An air-nozzle finished
off the rest. It would be much easier to do this before assembling
the table to the base, as the backs of several holes are blocked by
the cabinet and trunnion mounts. FYI.

The foamed in place packing was a real PITA. The guy that did this
was definitely intent on filling this sucker up. I had to cut
portions out with a handheld sheetrock hole saw. But considering the
handling freight can receive, I didn't mind too much. All of the foam
was contained in bags, until I attacked it with a jagged saw blade.

Runout of the arbor - .0005"
(Yes, this is acceptable.)
Cleaned and lightly oiled flange and dial indicator.
(No, it's not from Harbor Freight.)
Average of two points on the flange.

Arbor seems cast, but the grain structure looks tight. Canadian
General claims a forged arbor (and the only forge in the business) on
their better saws, but to be honest, I've never heard of a broken
arbor that wasn't accompanied by abuse. Bent blades, impact, big
hammers, and bad bearings all come to mind.

They call it a GPE switch, but that is an acronym for it's vendor, not
it's name. And it's neither, anymore. Now it's an NHD switch, so jot
that down in your acronym handbook for when you go shopping.
And that represents NHD Industrial Co., Ltd. And as you can tell from
their own company description: This is for you, Swingdude!

We are professional manufacturer of magnetic switch.

They are also Taiwanese.

The NHD magnetic/overload switches are classic Taiwanese electronics
items - well made, well spec'd, but slightly on the delicate side.
Tight control over costs is what makes them so competitive.
So kiss off another US company...

Table surface quality is far better than the original unit. The grind
is clean. It's no Powermatic, but if a polish job is worth $900, then
I'm in the wrong business. BFG

However, the table flatness is not as good as the original unit. For
some reason, and I'm no metallurgist, the area around the throat plate
opening is problematic. This is one factor that made my old saw so
irritating. There is a hump on the left side of the throat. Seems to
be a common ailment in cast-iron tables from Delta and others.
Cast-iron table located by it's mounting points on a jig, ground in a
matter of seconds by a huge grinding wheel. Under those conditions,
the malleability of iron is prominent. I hope you guys have a support
under that throat, 'cause it's moving on ya.

Table Flatness:
Within .003 across most of the table.
.035 Front Left to Right Rear
.028 Front Right to Left Rear.
Varying between .006" and .012" across the throat.

If it weren't for the hump around the throat, we'd be there.
It runs in a narrow band along the trailing edge of the grinder,
assuming the setup I envision is used. (It's on the left...)

It's far better than what I've been using, but seems a little lax to
me. The proof of the pudding is in the cuts, however.

Clearance between the miter T-track bottom and the table surface is
.418 in the rear, and .424 in the front - even within .006" and
identical on both sides. Clearance between an "average" miter gauge
and table top is considerably more than the .001" of the last unit at
a more conventional .018-.020".

I'll finish off this sucker next time I sit down to eat a bagel.
So look forward to Part 2 - at an Internet Cafe near you.


Greg G.