Frank Boettcher said:

Missed this one first time around but it deserves comment

O.K. First of all, I have tried to distance myself somewhat from this
thread and move on to better things - but this thread has a life all
it's own. But in an ironic twist of fate, I find that I'm the guy
that is really on _your side_. But here you are, again, giving me a
hard time. If you'll settle down a bit and listen carefully, you will
see that I am not the enemy. Turn up the comprehension knob a little.

If you are spoiling for a fight, let me introduce you to Bay Area Dave
and his 14" Delta Bandsaw - you two can have at it. Otherwise, let's
get this over with and return to woodorking.

And the rest of you, please lay off Frank for a bit about the saw.
I have truly appreciated your support during this depressing period,
but life goes on. I'm over it. C'est la Vie.

I have been an on-and-off participant of rec.woodworking for well over
3 1/2 years - and a lurker longer than that. But each summer, due to
the horrific heat and humidity here, I generally fade away in the
summer. But come fall season, I'm back again. I have never seen a
post by you until I asked my first Unisaw question. I didn't know who
or what you were - as your activity began in March of 2005, while I
was on a roof laying shingles.

A public forum is probably not the best place to clear the air on this
topic, but since it's flapping out there in the wind, I'm going to
proceed. Read this carefully, and try to put aside animosity and
emotion - none of this is an attack on you or the employees of the
plant that you worked at. If anything, it is an attack on Delta
Management and their decision to close the plant and move both the
plant overseas, and the refurbishing operations to Tennessee.

When I originally asked about a refurb Unisaw, you stated that the
saws were as good as ever - that, in your opinion, they were better
saws than the Grizzly 1023SL. You implied that refurbishing was done
in your plant, and that you were the manager of that plant. You
implied that the refurb work done was of a professional caliber. You
have also stated that you worked there until March of 2005.

What could I assume, then, but that the saw had been worked "under
your watch". I responded in this fashion due to your defensive
posture, and vague assertions that I was either too picky or a moron.
You never told me that refurb operations had been moved elsewhere,
even though a picture of the box was clearly posted.

But then you post this:

The last refurb on Unisaws was done in Tupelo (under my watch) in the
same month.

From that point the refurb was transferred to Jackson, TN, not under
my watch. My assmumption was that they were similarly re

From May until the plant was finally closed in March of 2005 the
Tupelo facility was only manufacturing castings for the U.S. made
product.

You became offended because I alleged that "a monkey with a
sledgehammer was apparently recruited to repair this saw". By the
timetable that you now present - and the admissions you now make - you
have no idea whether a trained monkey _actually_ repaired it or not.
You have argued facts you have no first hand knowledge of - and facts
not in evidence. I can appreciate your desire to defend your hard
working ex-employees - that is an admirable thing. But my sarcastic
comments concerning the skill of the repair person are not even
relevant to your crew. You don't know him, and you don't know if he
is qualified for the task or not. Why, then, do you take offense?
You assumed something that was not so - and I took you at your word.

As you have no doubt seen by this point, I made a post detailing the
defects contained IN THIS ONE SAW - if your would like photographs, I
can provide them to you, as I have to Delta.

You cannot argue that this was a permissible number of mistakes, and
why would you? Your plant and your employees didn't repair it. This
is exactly the sort of thing I rant about all too frequently - the
closing and transfer of a USA facility from a competent crew to a
cost-cutting one that isn't - or worse, a total move overseas.

The last Unisaw was manufactured in the Tupelo factory (Under my watch
so to speak) was in May of 2004. I own the saw. It was signed by
each person who worked on it. Unfortunately it was submerged by
Hurricane Katrina and is slowly being recovered. If you want
verification you can go to yahoo groups, deltawoodworking, pictures,

I have and I did. And I am truly sorry about the saw - it is a
substantial loss. I have lost many 'near and dear' things due to fire
and flood, so I'm no stranger to the loss you feel - not only over the
very last American Unisaw, but your plant, your employees, the Delta
tradition, and your way of life.

And then you post these comments in response to my review:

It appears that a large monkey with a sledge hammer has
been recruited to repair this saw.

Arrogant, insulting and and innappropriate comment.

last unisaw and see for yourself. There are no 19 year old trolls, or
trained monkeys in the picture, only a dedicated group of people who
averaged 30+ years of service.

See? You're still at it. Again, I never stated that anyone at the
Tupelo plant was a trained monkey. I claimed that whoever repaired
this saw was akin to a monkey with sledgehammer. Other than the slim
possibility that calling _anyone_ a monkey is in bad taste, you have
no reason to be so obsessed about it. From what I have garnered from
the ex-employees of your plant, they went out of the loop in December,
and were eventually terminated in March - their employment packages
held over their heads like carrots on a stick to keep them working
until doomsday - and eventually being cast to the four winds after a
lifetime of service.

Again, this is the sort of avaricious, short sited business management
that I abhor - and rant about all to often. Just ask the wRECers...

Or look here - a page from my web site that was put up in 2000,
WAAYY before I EVER heard of you:

http://www.thevideodoc.com/popin1.htm

I can even imagine the resentment that the aforementioned corporate
behavior could elicit in an employee, resulting in a half-ass repair
like the one performed on that evil, possessed saw.

I could immediately tell that it was not refurbed under my watch
because it was reboxed. We did not do that. We put the saw
completely together, aligned it, tested it under power then strapped
it to an oversize pallet and waited for the distributor to pick it up.
We refused to ship our refurb LTL. The dealer you bought your saw
from will verify this and the level of quality that came from my
refurb operation. He wanted to hired my refurb leadman. His name is
Jerry.

But you never said this - until now.

And, following up on one of your comments in an earlier post, I do not
own stock in Delta (would be Black & Decker now) and am not paid by
them in any way shape or form.

I never asserted that you did/were.
Again, turn up the comprehension level slightly. ;-)

What I said was:

Since I am a consumer, I don't have to pussyfoot around the facts.
I don't take advertising dollars or have stock in the company.
I am not insulting you personally or the heritage of Delta.

My implications were that, unlike magazines and sock puppet reviewers,
I had no interest in the finances of Delta, and therefore had no
reservations in calling a spade a spade.

I am terribly sorry that your saw was problematic and you feel that
you were not treated fairly by your dealer and by Delta. I hope you
find what you want.

Thank You for the concern.
My problem is with Delta and apparently their new refurb operation.
I never claimed to have a problem with the dealer. They have been,
while not _overly_ accommodating, at least civil, and have picked up
the saw for inspection. I have been credited a refund, although I
really wanted to wait until I was contacted by Delta to get their side
of the story. I haven't heard anything yet, but a guy did call today,
by the name of Keith Hopkins. He said he was playing golf(!?) and
would call back at 4:30pm - but alas, he never did.

And as for what I want?
I dearly wanted an American Made Delta Unisaw that worked properly.
Not one that had been hammered up and left with missing/lose hardware
and improperly installed parts. Not one with built in safety defects.
Not one from a plant that could even produce such an abortion.

That is all I wanted - fair dinkum.

But the condition of the saw I received, and Delta's non-reaction to
it left me with a bitter taste in my mouth as to the quality, support,
and reliability of their products.

But here is some food for thought:
(Are you listening Delta/B&D?)

This experience has been an absolute PITA.
And I am also certain that there are more than a few other people in
this group who wouldn't suffer a similar fate at the hands of that
freaking saw from hell. And Delta should realize that many, many of
it's customers are going to face the same situation should they
purchase and receive a piece of machinery such as this.

I haven't slept right since I drug it home and hauled that heavy ass
$1300 thing into the garage. Can't do woodworking - it doesn't run.
Heck I couldn't even get INTO my garage for 4 days because this busted
up thing was sitting in the middle of the floor - along with my old
saw, that will be leaving soon because I thought I had a NEW saw.
SWMBO asks: "I thought you researched this?" and what can I reply?
I told her that the Delta Factory Guy on the wREC tells me these are
quality saws & a good bargain. Now, I look like a freaking idiot!

The 7yr old Guy inside of me has ranted and ended up in the kill files
of half the wREC because his new toy is broken - so they turn me off.
The Manager Guy wonders about all the time he has spent dorking around
with this affair.
The Q.C. Guy in me is outraged that something of this caliber has been
allowed out of the factory with so many mistakes.
The Worker Guy in me wonders how could anyone not care enough to do a
better job.
And the Patriot Guy in me wonders how his country is going to survive
producing products like this - while closing down factories and
putting lifelong employees out of work.

This has been so aggravating that I have considered selling ALL my
tools and just getting out of woodworking completely. I have looked
for a used saw for years, and I cannot justify the cost of a NEW saw.
I hoped that this would be a "good thing".

Not a good way to keep a customer happy, IMHO.

Heck, for all I know, he is a 19 year old

One can only wish

Same here.

troll who isn't really who
he claims to be - this IS Usenet. But I don't believe so.

See my statement above, where I point out that I've never seen you
post a message in the wREC before.


Don't get me wrong, aside from one emotional off-color comment,

?????

This one:

In your case, I might suggest that you purchase another brand if you
are so dissatisfied. And possibly move from the state of Georgia
since one of your posts cast dispersion on the people who live there.

Personal assaults concerning how and where I live and the inclusion of
other conversations not related to this Q.C. issue have no place in
this discussion with you - and is your basic Usenet ad hominem attack
for relating an experience which I found to be quite disappointing.
No, scratch that - downright shocking.

Stating that I live in a backwards red state with no consumer
protection laws that is now run by Plutocrats certainly doesn't cast
aspersion on the general population of Georgia, just a select and
corrupt clan of a powerful few I call the Dixie Mafia. And it is my
sincere opinion that Newt Gingrich is a borderline psychotic that has
no business involved with the government of this country.

All of this, however, is irrelevant to Delta and their QC issues, and
is only my considered opinion.

I still think he is OK, and has something to contribute to the group.

I'm so relieved.

Sarcasm duly noted...
So, can we get over this and move on?
Or shall I send B.A.D. over here and add you to my KillFile?

Sincerely,

Greg G.