On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:39:25 GMT, Don Bruder wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus8862 wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 04:59:13 -0800, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:16:39 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Jon
Elson quickly quoth:
Ignoramus26744 wrote:
This is purely an idle question. I have no interest in doing this, for
many reasons. The main reason is that 7mm rem mag is armor piercing
even if bullets are made from dung. Anyway. I have some 4.8mm (3/16)
tungsten electrodes (lanthanated). I could, conceivably, cast some
(Ig, you meant to say "_Someone_ could, conceivably, cast...", right?)
I could double check, but it is my recollection that possessing AP
bullets is not illegal, at least in the US in general. High power
rifles, such as 7mm Rem Mag, give their bullets so much energy that
pretty much any bullets from these rifles can go through pretty much
all "bulletproof" vests. A vest that could stop a bullet of this
nature would not be practical to carry.
That's true for almost rifles of roughly that size - .30-06, .308, 7mm
mag, and god-only-knows how many others. Basically anything that size is
going to fit in the category "armor piercing" when loaded with plain old
off-the-shelf deer bullets.
When I asked a cop I know (who, at the time, was bragging about his
spiffy new state-of-the-art, top-of-the-line vest - "This sucker will
stop damn near anything!") "So, if it's so great and protects so well,
what happens if I point my .30-06 at you and pull the trigger?", he
flinched a bit, then in a very matter-of-fact tone replied "Well, I'm
probably gonna drop like a steer in a slaughterhouse, then quietly lay
there and bleed to death - assuming I'm not already dead before I hit
the ground."
Oddly enough, I haven't heard him say diddly-squat about his
ever-so-strong vest since... 
Chuckle...the ancient .30 Mauser pistol cartridge, often found in the
old broomhandled Mauser and other "obsolete" handguns, will generally
sail right through a Level II vest like it was lace. Often doesnt make
it completly through the other side of the vest..but the wearer is not
likely to be terribly concerned one way or another.
Im aware of two cases also of deaths by blunt force trauma, one case
the wearer was shot at nearly point blank range by a 12ga shotgun
delivering a slug. It busted the sternum, blew out the aorota and
pretty much tenderized the heart. Think bag of goo. The other was an
officre who was tagged with a 475gr round out of a 45-70 at about 25
yrds. He managed to survive nearly a week, before the internal organs
simply gave up. Another bag of goo. In neither case was the vest
penetrated.
Bullet "proof" vests, arent. Some are more bullet Resistant than
others however. Adding a ceramic "chicken plate" helps things
tremendously, but also adds some big issues to flexability, and
comfort. Vests at best of times are hot and somewhat uncomfortable,
adding a ceramic plate to the front, back or both, really makes for
some issues. Though a good one will stop..yes stop, a .308 round. Im
told its like getting smacked with a sledgehammer though.
When vests first became commonly available in the early 70s, many
police departments bragged about their officers having them. Then
wondered why so many cops were dying of head wounds.. The perps
simply understood you had to pop em in the head to stop em. And did
so.
Sigh..and Im personally aware of one case, where a fairly new cop,
equipped with the latest high tech geegaws, bells and whistles..and
wearing the latest and greatest state of the art vest, got into a
struggle with a guy armed with a .32, who put it into the cops armpit
and pulled the trigger. That slow, miserably weak bullet punctured
the lung, clipped the right descending aorta, punctured the other
lung and lodged in the other arm. The coroner had to flip a coin as
to what actually was the cause of death..the deflation of both lungs
collapsing and smothering the heart, or the bleed out from the leak in
the aorta. He was gone in less than a minute either way. Not gonna
put a bandaid on that sort of wound.
Ive not seen any data yet on vests versus the new .17 H&R cartridge,
though there are several handguns now made for it. The bottlnecked 5.7
x28 is a newish pistol cartridge specificly designed to penetrate body
armor. Another fine product from Fabriqe Nationale, and becoming very
popular in handguns and submachine guns by military and paramilitary
forces around the globe.
And of course..we cannot forget the fine Tornado bullet, used by the
BATF to shoot each other to doll rags at the Waco cluster****.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner