"Bill Schwab" wrote in message
k.net...
Harold,

Unless you do a considerable amount of work at an angle, it's usually a
good
idea to use your vise sans the swivel base. They generally cost you
considerable time in setup, and, as you discovered, tend to be
troublesome.
You almost always have doubt as to whether the vise is properly dialed,
or
not. The worst part is you lose valuable space unnecessarily.

The vertical space has not been a problem so far, but it certainly could
be some day. I haven't removed it yet, but I suspect it will make the
vice significantly easier to move.

It often is more precise, too. Each time you add a lift to a setup, you
have more chances of introducing error. Could be a problem for difficult
work. Regards handling, if you had a large vise, your point would be
dead on. The large Kurt vises are tough to handle alone---------which I
recognized when I bought my 5" model, now obsolete. For small work, it's
the best of all worlds.


If, by chance, you happen to have keys for your vise, you can use them
to
locate the vise almost perfectly, then do a fine adjustment with your
indicator.

I have keys but they are too small to be of such use. I plan to make
some as soon as I stumble onto some suitable metal.

By banking off one edge of the T slot, you can still use them to get the
vise close, so even they can save some time.

Where I was trained, all the keys were removed from vises and we were not
permitted to use them. They wanted the vise dialed in each time it was set
up, so that forced the issue. I rely on the keys now, but I'm not turning
out critical work (just hobby stuff), but it's a good policy to dial the
fixed jaw each time the vise in installed. Mine will repeat within a thou
using the keys, which is one reason I've become somewhat lax in retirement.



Add the swivel base when necessary. I never use one,
preferring to make my setups with a vernier bevel protractor when
necessary.

Unless I'm crossing up gizmos, that means you use clamps when you work
at an angle??

Yes, even when installing the vise at an angle. The bolt holes don't
always work out otherwise. That offers some nice advantages, like placing
the vise where it is in a better relationship with the spindle if it was
otherwise mounted with the swivel base. Not a big deal normally, but it
opens the door to options that otherwise would not be available. It's
more a personal choice than anything. I don't see a right or wrong in the
issue.


Re angles, it sounds as though measuring and aligning to them is
acceptable practice. I was wondering by analogy to construction
practices in drafting.


Frankly, it's the only way to make a setup. There's no way in hell I'd
trust the marks on a vise and swivel base, no more than I'd trust the index
on a mill or lathe compound. At best, they're a reference point, nothing
more. By using a vernier protractor, you can usually achieve 15 minutes
of angle with little effort. That requires the protractor to be properly
supported so the angle isn't influenced by tilting. When the angle is
critical, it is measured after a cut, then corrected as necessary. On the
other hand, if the angle isn't critical, there's certainly nothing wrong
with trusting marks on the vise or machine, assuming you have a clue as to
their accuracy.


Zeroing the indicator is of no concern, which likely stands to reason to
you. All you want to know is if there is movement of the hand, so
regardless of where it rests on the face, it makes no difference as long
as
you know where you got started. Certainly no harm is setting it to
zero,
but not necessary.

Understood, but the "go halfway back to where you started" maneuvers are
simpler (and less error prone) if the reading is a nice number or at a
compass point, etc.

Agreed. It's particularly important when you sweeping a bore, where you
view the indicator backwards when it's too the rear. My policy is to use
any method that minimizes the chance for me to screw up. When you use an
indicator daily, it becomes routine and you don't give it much thought. Now
that I use mine very infrequently, the fine edge I used to enjoy is gone. I
have to think harder, and often employ methods you suggest.


The real reason to play with the offset is that the
DTI has a very limited range, so when in doubt, I unloaded it and put it
at a known location in its travel. However, I will admit that once I
got the bolt tightnesses about right, it got a lot easier.

Oh, yeah! If you work with loose bolts, it's like a dog chasing its tail
..



When you dial in a vise, or anything, for that matter, it's usually
desirable to have one side quite snug, and the other side just slightly
less
tight, so when you rap the vise with your soft hammer, it moves only a
thou
or so, pivoting around the bolt that is the tightest.

I'll give it a try.


As it gets near
perfect, snug them up and repeat if necessary.

I understand the need to repeat, or at least check after tightening. Am
I correct in assuming that one would loosen a bolt instead of simply
swinging harder?

Depends. If you need a half thou, and you have a decent soft hammer (Nupla
Flex), you can often get the half thou you need with a swift blow. The
snap often permits a miniscule movement, but I never swing like I'm trying
to break things. It really helps to have a firm understanding of what
"tight" means. My years in precision grinding really helped in that
regard. I don't over tighten fasteners, and I also don't have problems
with things moving. Some guys use way too much force on fasteners, in
which case my method wouldn't work.



Dialing in anything that
is too loose is rather difficult because of the unwanted movement.

As I learned "the hard way" Thanks for confirming my suspicion.



Thanks!

Welcome!

Harold

Bill