[Vet Tech]

We are soon to refurbish one bedroom on the first floor which
currently has a grotty built in wardrobe that has got to come out. I
started to remove the hanging rail and was intruiged to see a small
white cable stapled to the carcase just by the door. The cable comes
up through the floor and disappears up through the ceiling into the
loft. Checking out the loft is not as easy as it used to be as we had
a loft conversion done 5 years ago so it is all neatly boarded out
with T&G and any wires that were there before are well and truly
covered over.

I've been racking my brains as to what the cable could be for and it
soon became aparent that it could only be the cable running from the
alarm control box up to the sounder box on the front gable.

Horrors, as I recall that when the builder was doing the loft
conversion, he had to re-route the cable to the sounder and as soon as
he cut it the b***dy alarm went off - even though he had disconnected
the backup battery.

It transpires that most alarms have a big capacitor in the sounder
box. This activates the sounder if the alarm is tampered with eg
having the cables cut or the cover removed. I seem to recall that it
took about an hour before the capacitor drained down. I wasnt too
popular with the neighbours.

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
,
Vet Tech wrote:
Horrors, as I recall that when the builder was doing the loft
conversion, he had to re-route the cable to the sounder and as soon as
he cut it the b***dy alarm went off - even though he had disconnected
the backup battery.

It transpires that most alarms have a big capacitor in the sounder
box. This activates the sounder if the alarm is tampered with eg
having the cables cut or the cover removed. I seem to recall that it
took about an hour before the capacitor drained down. I wasnt too
popular with the neighbours.

They have a re-chargeable battery inside them which is charged by the main
panel power supply.

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Two of the wires form an anti-tamper (24hr) circuit. Depending on how
sophisticated your system is, shorting those should stop it sounding when
the wire is cut. But you'd need to know which colours were used for this.
Which would mean opening up the main panel. You'd need the installation
instructions for that to know how to prevent it reacting to being tampered
with.

--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Man at B&Q]

On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

On Jun 5, 10:21*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!

MBQ

Sorry, that should be turn the alarm off so you can open the bell box
without it sounding and disconnect the battery.

MBQ

[Broadback[_2_]]

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jun 5, 10:21 am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jun 5, 9:18 am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?
Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!

MBQ

Sorry, that should be turn the alarm off so you can open the bell box
without it sounding and disconnect the battery.

MBQ
Turning the alarm off may not work, if you read that to mean
disconnecting it from the mains. However, assuming you have the
instruction book to tell you how, enter into "Engineer" mode, this
normally disables the tamper circuit, otherwise when you open the alarm
box to disconnect the battery the alarm will be activated.

--
Please reply to group,emails to designated
address are never read.

[Vet Tech]

On 5 June, 10:21, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!


If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor. The capacitor is there to provide power if some one cuts
the wires or otherwise tampers with the system. Tell you what,come
round and put your fingers on the contacts of the capacitor and you
soon learn what it does.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Vet Tech
wrote this:-

If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor.

It must be quite a capacitor if it powers the sounder for an hour.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
,
Vet Tech wrote:
If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor. The capacitor is there to provide power if some one cuts
the wires or otherwise tampers with the system. Tell you what,come
round and put your fingers on the contacts of the capacitor and you
soon learn what it does.

Err, I doubt it. Unlikely to be more than a couple of volts.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor.

It must be quite a capacitor if it powers the sounder for an hour.

You can get such things - but all the bell boxes I've seen use an ordinary
re-chargeable battery.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[lighthouseman]

On Jun 5, 11:20*am, David Hansen
wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Vet Tech
wrote this:-

If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting *power from
a capacitor.

It must be quite a capacitor if it powers the sounder for an hour.

--
* David Hansen, Edinburgh
*I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
*http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

It's a battery, it gets charged when the system is powered up (set or
unset) and cannot be defeated.
The only way to do it is remove the sounder from the wall, the sounder
will sound as it has an anti-tamper switch, then disocnnect it's
battery, then extend the cable and put the sounder back on.

Your alarm panel itself will HAVE to be in engineer mode to do this,
otherwise the internal sounder will sound too.

-K

[TheScullster]

"Vet Tech" wrote

We are soon to refurbish one bedroom on the first floor which
currently has a grotty built in wardrobe that has got to come out. I
started to remove the hanging rail and was intruiged to see a small
white cable stapled to the carcase just by the door. The cable comes
up through the floor and disappears up through the ceiling into the
loft. Checking out the loft is not as easy as it used to be as we had
a loft conversion done 5 years ago so it is all neatly boarded out
with T&G and any wires that were there before are well and truly
covered over.

I've been racking my brains as to what the cable could be for and it
soon became aparent that it could only be the cable running from the
alarm control box up to the sounder box on the front gable.

Horrors, as I recall that when the builder was doing the loft
conversion, he had to re-route the cable to the sounder and as soon as
he cut it the b***dy alarm went off - even though he had disconnected
the backup battery.

It transpires that most alarms have a big capacitor in the sounder
box. This activates the sounder if the alarm is tampered with eg
having the cables cut or the cover removed. I seem to recall that it
took about an hour before the capacitor drained down. I wasnt too
popular with the neighbours.

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

To clarify the other posters' comments hopefully....

The bell box has an internal battery which (as you have discovered) will
sound if the wire to it is cut.
If you have a sufficiently sophisticated alarm system/bell box there may be
a procedure to enable a form of engineer/access mode for the bell box
itself. This allows the bell box lid to be lifted without activating the
tamper switch and then you can disconnect the internal battery. After that
you will need the alarm panel engineers' code to allow access to the panel
to power it down and remove internal backup battery.

If your bell box isn't the smart type, then you will have to do the bellbox
battery disconnect "live" (with earplugs).

So..
Remove mains supply to panel - usually remove fuse from spur.
If your internal panel backup battery is shot, then the bell box will sound
at this point. This is because the bell box requires a hold-off supply from
the panel which is lost when all power to the panel drops. (This is why
loads of alarms sound whenever there's a power cut - indicates spent panel
battery).
Enter engineers' code for panel access and to defeat the panel lid
anti-tamper circuit (this will not defeat the bell box anti-tamper).
Check out the details for your bell box if you can find them. As supplied,
they usually have a "not connected" terminal for the supply from the bell
box battery to the internal ciruitry. With earplugs fitted, remove bell box
lid and disconnect internal bell box battery, moving wire from existing
terminal to "not connected" terminal.
Open alarm panel (with mains feed off - check) and disconnect internal panel
battery.
Noise should now cease, and disconnect of bell box cable should be possible.



HTH

Phil

[Andrew Mawson]

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Vet Tech
wrote this:-

If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power
from
a capacitor.

It must be quite a capacitor if it powers the sounder for an hour.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP
prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

They are only allowed by law to sound for 20 mins - feels like hours
but it's only 20 mins! Most are 12v systems and use a gel cell
rechargeable in the alarm sounder box which will also have a tamper
switch on the case. I'd doubt it's a capacitor rather than a battery,
but it is technically possible nowadays, as capacitors of several
farads are available at low voltages. When I was a boy I can remember
the physics teacher saying that the farad unit was impractically large
'as you'll never see a one farad capacitor' - well I have several 3.3
farad capacitors !

AWEM

[TheScullster]

"Dave Plowman (News)"wrote


Two of the wires form an anti-tamper (24hr) circuit. Depending on how
sophisticated your system is, shorting those should stop it sounding when
the wire is cut. But you'd need to know which colours were used for this.
Which would mean opening up the main panel. You'd need the installation
instructions for that to know how to prevent it reacting to being tampered
with.

Most modern bell boxes need a hold-off supply to stop them sounding.
This is why bell boxes sound when there's a power cut (internal panel
battery not replaced regularly....therefore loss of mains = total loss of
power to panel = loss of hold-off signal).

Phil

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:26:12 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

It must be quite a capacitor if it powers the sounder for an hour.

You can get such things - but all the bell boxes I've seen use an ordinary
re-chargeable battery.

That was certainly the case when I was involved with such things
too.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[dennis@home]

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Jun 5, 9:18 am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!


Which won't stop it sounding!

[ARWadsworth]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Vet Tech wrote:
If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor. The capacitor is there to provide power if some one cuts
the wires or otherwise tampers with the system. Tell you what,come
round and put your fingers on the contacts of the capacitor and you
soon learn what it does.

Err, I doubt it. Unlikely to be more than a couple of volts.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I would not like to touch the stobe light connections when stood at the top
of a ladder!

The capacitor on it's own would not bother me.

Adam

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
"ARWadsworth" writes:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Vet Tech wrote:
If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor. The capacitor is there to provide power if some one cuts
the wires or otherwise tampers with the system. Tell you what,come
round and put your fingers on the contacts of the capacitor and you
soon learn what it does.

Err, I doubt it. Unlikely to be more than a couple of volts.

I would not like to touch the stobe light connections when stood at the top
of a ladder!

The trigger pulse is usually something like 1kV-4kV, but it's
extremely short and low energy. I have accidentally touched one
in another application, and I didn't notice at all, except that
it stopped the flash tube firing.

However, you would get a belt off the flash capacitor, which is
usually something like 200V-400V and contains the energy for one
flash.

The other place you might get a belt is a peizo sounder, which
is driven through a step-up transformer, but if you're that close
when it's going off, deafness is more likely to be a concern.

The capacitor on it's own would not bother me.

Battery? Usually 3-4 NiCds.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
"Man at B&Q" writes:
On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Vet Tech wrote:
Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?
Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!

Not sure many alarms have any concept of being turned off.

With mine, putting it into Engineer Test Mode allows you to remove
the external sounder cover without it going off, but you must keep
it connected to the panel whilst you do this. Once you have the cover
off, you can remove the internal battery jumper, and then disconnect
the wiring.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Err, I doubt it. Unlikely to be more than a couple of volts.


I would not like to touch the stobe light connections when stood at the
top of a ladder!

The capacitor on it's own would not bother me.

The strobe will be very low current and unlikely to actually hurt.

--
*Modulation in all things *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:24:40 UTC, "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Jun 5, 10:21Â*am, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jun 5, 9:18Â*am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!

MBQ

Sorry, that should be turn the alarm off so you can open the bell box
without it sounding and disconnect the battery.

On the alarm boxes I've seen, the anti-tamper is done by feeding a
constant 12v to the bello box. If that supply drops, the battery kicks
in and sounds the alarm.

If it's like that, you need to arrange a 12v supply to connect the
correct wires to when you cut the cable.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:13:37 UTC, Vet Tech
wrote:

On 5 June, 10:21, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jun 5, 9:18Â*am, Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!


If you had read the OP correctly, you would have learned that the
battery was disconnected and that the sounder was getting power from
a capacitor. The capacitor is there to provide power if some one cuts
the wires or otherwise tampers with the system. Tell you what,come
round and put your fingers on the contacts of the capacitor and you
soon learn what it does.

MOre likely to be a NiCad or similar...
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[John Rumm]

Vet Tech wrote:

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

I don't know how sophisticated the "anti tamper" is - if its just a 12V
hold off without any clever cable impedance change detection, then it
sounds trivial to defeat.

Decide where you want the new cable to go and install it - leaving ends
close to exiting cable. Strip the outer sheath of the existing cable
adjacent to new cable ends, and join using a suitable terminal box[1].
Repeat at other end, now remove unwanted cable section[2]

[1] You could do a temporary bridge using a pair of IDC RJ45 sockets and
a patch lead, or alternatively go for the final solution in one go. I
would use something like:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/pr...questid=758678

Install one at each connection point, and bridge enough terminals with
the new cable. Now strip the outer sheath from the existing cable
without disturbing the wires. Punch these down into the individual
terminals. At this point you should now have two parallel paths of
connection, and the original wires can be cut and removed. At no time
will the circuit have been interrupted.

[2] Don't just cut in one action as this could temporarily short the
wires - cut each wire separately.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Andy Dingley]

On 5 June, 11:20, David Hansen
wrote:

It must be quite a capacitor if it powers the sounder for an hour.

"Quite a capacitors" are now cheap and commonplace. It's also driving
a high-efficiency sounder, not a bell.

As these capacitors have "building lifetime" lifes compared to lead-
acid rechargeables, they're now very popular fitments to alarm bell
boxes. Given the usual hassle factor of getting to the bell box,
especially if its fittings are tamperproof (or simply unremovable) it
can be worth changing to this sort of sounder rather than the usual
pre-emptive bell box battery replacement every few years.

If your panel battery fails, the sounder goes off when the mains does.
People usually fix that.

If your bell or sounder battery fails, the bell goes quiet when
tampered with. This is les obvious, so it's usually ignored - even
though it's a significant loss of system resistance to attack.

[Andy Dingley]

On 5 June, 11:34, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

They are only allowed by law to sound for 20 mins

No, a _system_ is only allowed to sound for 20 minutes. A damaged or
deliberately tampered with system is allowed to sound indefinitely, as
there's no reasonable way the law can require it to shut up when it's
damaged or comproimised from how it's supposed to work.

So the panel has a timeout after 20, but a severed bell box will keep
on tweeting while the power lasts.

[Vet Tech]

On 5 June, 15:04, John Rumm wrote:
Vet Tech wrote:
Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

I don't know how sophisticated the "anti tamper" is - if its just a 12V
hold off without any clever cable impedance change detection, then it
sounds trivial to defeat.

Decide where you want the new cable to go and install it - leaving ends
close to exiting cable. Strip the outer sheath of the existing cable
adjacent to new cable ends, and join using a suitable terminal box[1].
Repeat at other end, now remove unwanted cable section[2]

[1] You could do a temporary bridge using a pair of IDC RJ45 sockets and
a patch lead, or alternatively go for the final solution in one go. I
would use something like:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/pr...=CN04645&_requ....

Install one at each connection point, and bridge enough terminals with
the new cable. Now strip the outer sheath from the existing cable
without disturbing the wires. Punch these down into the individual
terminals. At this point you should now have two parallel paths of
connection, and the original wires can be cut and removed. At no time
will the circuit have been interrupted.

[2] Don't just cut in one action as this could temporarily short the
wires - cut each wire separately.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/

John,

Neat solution.

I have a couple of these connector boxes spare that I was going to
use to extend two runs of Cat5 cable so I'll give that a go, many
thanks

VT

[Man at B&Q]

On Jun 5, 12:49*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "Man at B&Q" writes:

On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Vet Tech wrote:
Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?
Turn the alarm off before you do it, FFS!

Not sure many alarms have any concept of being turned off.

With mine, putting it into Engineer Test Mode allows you to remove
the external sounder cover without it going off, but you must keep
it connected to the panel whilst you do this. Once you have the cover
off, you can remove the internal battery jumper, and then disconnect
the wiring.

Disabling then, which is the same thing as turning off that function
that makes it sound the alarm.

MBQ

[Toby]

Andy Dingle wrote:
On 5 June, 11:34, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

They are only allowed by law to sound for 20 mins

No, a _system_ is only allowed to sound for 20 minutes. A damaged or
deliberately tampered with system is allowed to sound indefinitely, as
there's no reasonable way the law can require it to shut up when it's
damaged or comproimised from how it's supposed to work.

So the panel has a timeout after 20, but a severed bell box will keep
on tweeting while the power lasts.

All the bell boxes I have fitted have had an internal timer in the bell
box too!

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:04:10 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

I don't know how sophisticated the "anti tamper" is - if its just a 12V
hold off without any clever cable impedance change detection, then it
sounds trivial to defeat.

Decide where you want the new cable to go and install it - leaving ends
close to exiting cable. Strip the outer sheath of the existing cable
adjacent to new cable ends, and join using a suitable terminal box[1].
Repeat at other end, now remove unwanted cable section[2]

Yes that would work but it assumes you know which core does what in the
cable. There is no standard for this and indeed there shouldn't be... A
single installation or one done by the same person/company might be
consistent but that is about as far as it goes.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[John Rumm]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:04:10 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

I don't know how sophisticated the "anti tamper" is - if its just a 12V
hold off without any clever cable impedance change detection, then it
sounds trivial to defeat.

Decide where you want the new cable to go and install it - leaving ends
close to exiting cable. Strip the outer sheath of the existing cable
adjacent to new cable ends, and join using a suitable terminal box[1].
Repeat at other end, now remove unwanted cable section[2]

Yes that would work but it assumes you know which core does what in the
cable. There is no standard for this and indeed there shouldn't be... A
single installation or one done by the same person/company might be
consistent but that is about as far as it goes.

Don't see why you need to know the function of any of the cores as long
as you ensure continuity of all the wires is maintained. So bridge each
wire to itself, and then cut the originals.

The difficulty may come if the cores are all the same colour - making it
harder to tell which is which (although in this circumstance you could
just strip all the outer from the section to be moved, and identify the
cores that way)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
"Quite a capacitors" are now cheap and commonplace. It's also driving
a high-efficiency sounder, not a bell.

As these capacitors have "building lifetime" lifes compared to lead-
acid rechargeables, they're now very popular fitments to alarm bell
boxes.

I've never seen a lead acid fitted to a bell box - they are usually
Ni-Cads or later types. What makes used them?

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[dennis@home]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Err, I doubt it. Unlikely to be more than a couple of volts.


I would not like to touch the stobe light connections when stood at the
top of a ladder!

The capacitor on it's own would not bother me.

The strobe will be very low current and unlikely to actually hurt.

They are also usually 12V the same as the rest of the stuff.

Don't take the cover of the strobe though as there are a few kV inside.

[JDT2Q]

snip
It transpires that most alarms have a big capacitor in the sounder
box. This activates the sounder if the alarm is tampered with eg
having the cables cut or the cover removed. I seem to recall that it
took about an hour before the capacitor drained down. I wasnt too
popular with the neighbours.

Question now, as you might expect, is how does one get round this as
the cable has to be cut and extended so that it can re re-routed?

An important safety tip if you intend to remove the bell box cover while up
ladders and are unsure whether it will sound due to being tampered.

You will be very close to the sounder and up ladders and, close up, it
should be very loud.

Your hands will probably be full too.

You natural involuntary reaction will be to draw back.

There have, I seem to recall, been instances in the past where the shock of
the high intensity sound has caused the uninformed D-I-Y alarm engineer to
fall off their ladders.

Just be aware and prepared for the acoustic shock and don't fall from your
ladder.

[Andy Dingley]

On 5 June, 17:34, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

I've never seen a lead acid fitted to a bell box - they are usually
Ni-Cads or later types. What makes used them?

No idea - generic tin boxes from the cheap shop when I fitted them,
also some insanely expensive stuff that a friend fitted to his factory
building and a fish-named locksmith came and billed them a shedload of
money for annual servicing, with new batts every few years. Newer than
NiCds, older than capacitors.

[Dai]

take a look on www.ukpanels.com/forum1