"Steve North" wrote in message
om...
Can anyone suggest a cheap alternative to the worktop jigs that are
used as templates for routing the joints between surfaces? You can see
the type I mean here http://tinyurl.com/o8fv

£100 or more is quite a lot when I will only be doing three or four
cuts.

Also I would be grateful for any general advice when routing using
this type of worktop jig as a guide.

Ohh, and lastly I had considered just routing a straight 45 degree cut
for worktops which meet at 90 degrees to avoid the need for a worktop
jig. Do you think this would just be too naff? Has anyone done this
and think it looks OK?

Thanks for any help.

Swallow hard and hire one (www.hirecenter.co.uk about £20 for the weekend) -
it's impossible without one and use new cutters. But I managed three
passable corner joins when 'doing' a kitchen upgrade with a friend and that
was the first time I'd used a router!

Peter

On 22 Sep 2003 09:54:54 -0700, (Steve
North) wrote:

Can anyone suggest a cheap alternative to the worktop jigs that are
used as templates for routing the joints between surfaces? You can see
the type I mean here http://tinyurl.com/o8fv

£100 or more is quite a lot when I will only be doing three or four
cuts.

Which part of the country are you in?

The reason for asking is that I have just purchased one of these
worktop jigs, and I would be willing to do a couple of freebies just
to get some practice in.

PoP

Steve North wrote:

Can anyone suggest a cheap alternative to the worktop jigs that are
used as templates for routing the joints between surfaces? You can see
the type I mean here http://tinyurl.com/o8fv

£100 or more is quite a lot when I will only be doing three or four
cuts.

Also I would be grateful for any general advice when routing using
this type of worktop jig as a guide.

Ohh, and lastly I had considered just routing a straight 45 degree cut
for worktops which meet at 90 degrees to avoid the need for a worktop
jig. Do you think this would just be too naff? Has anyone done this
and think it looks OK?


Not done a 45, but I *have* done a straight cut withiut a jig.

If you use a cutter diameter roughly similar to the radius on the
worktop, and stop at the 'show' end before breaking entirely through,
you can fettle the last 10mm or so on the pieces to make a very close
fitting join indeed. Any hole can be filled with colored epoxy or car
body filler and are almost invisible.

The tric is that the cut is at 90 degrees except the bit over the
radius, which is at 45 to get everything to line up. That last 45 cut
can be done with a rasp, hand saw, or even a fine toothed jig saw - or
if you are brave, the router.




Thanks for any help.

(Steve North) wrote in
om:

Can anyone suggest a cheap alternative to the worktop jigs that are
used as templates for routing the joints between surfaces? You can see
the type I mean here http://tinyurl.com/o8fv

£100 or more is quite a lot when I will only be doing three or four
cuts.

Also I would be grateful for any general advice when routing using
this type of worktop jig as a guide.

Ohh, and lastly I had considered just routing a straight 45 degree cut
for worktops which meet at 90 degrees to avoid the need for a worktop
jig. Do you think this would just be too naff? Has anyone done this
and think it looks OK?

Thanks for any help.

Not done it myself but the guy that did mine used a jig and it looks
great. Looked at buying one myself too, didn;t think about the fact you
can hire them until I'd paid someone £150 to cut two joints. Hmm!

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, but he used a bisuit cutter
too to ensure the tops stayed level etc. Not something I would have
thought of unless I saw him do it.

On 22 Sep 2003 13:57:51 -0700, (Michael
McNeil) wrote:

It is expensive for a one off. £20 for the hire for a week is a
bargain when you compare the price of a fitted top with a bodged one.

I think it was £20 for a weekend.

I suppose it might be feasible to hire one of these out for a couple
of days and then copy-route a duplicate from MDF or whatever. I'm not
sure that would retain the accuracy in the copied version, but maybe
it would be close enough if you used a router bit with a bearing
follower.

Don't try this at home folks. You'd presumably be breaking copyright.

PoP

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:02:52 +0000 (UTC), Billy Whizz
wrote:

Not done it myself but the guy that did mine used a jig and it looks
great. Looked at buying one myself too, didn;t think about the fact you
can hire them until I'd paid someone £150 to cut two joints. Hmm!

£75 a joint? Is that what they charge? Jeez, I'm in the wrong job!

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, but he used a bisuit cutter
too to ensure the tops stayed level etc. Not something I would have
thought of unless I saw him do it.

I would have thought that was a potentially useful thing to do.
Another option would be to lay in a couple of dowels across the joint.

PoP

On 22 Sep 2003 13:57:51 -0700, (Michael
McNeil) wrote:

You can get a fairly good cut from a circular saw.

Except for a neatly coped edge on an interior corner joint.

--
Smert' spamionam

(Steve North) wrote in message . com...
Can anyone suggest a cheap alternative to the worktop jigs that are
used as templates for routing the joints between surfaces? You can see
the type I mean here http://tinyurl.com/o8fv

£100 or more is quite a lot when I will only be doing three or four
cuts.

If you already have a suitable router then it is still cheaper than
paying someone to do the cuts. They quite often come up second hand on
ebay. Also there are cheaper new ones on ebay but I bought the Trend
one as it's a known reputable brand.


Also I would be grateful for any general advice when routing using
this type of worktop jig as a guide.

The instructions with the trend one are good. I would add keep the
cutter bit clean. Be prepared to use more than one new cutter for that
many joins (or maybe a better cutter will stay sharper longer?. Do a
couple of cuts with each new cutter and then do the bolt recesses with
the used cutters.


Ohh, and lastly I had considered just routing a straight 45 degree cut
for worktops which meet at 90 degrees to avoid the need for a worktop
jig. Do you think this would just be too naff? Has anyone done this
and think it looks OK?

IMHO 45 deg cuts are fine but you waste more worktop as each piece has
to be long enough to reach into the corner. May not be an issue if you
have length to spare from a standard length worktop. You still need
some way to ensure you get the "same" 45 deg on each piece.

Andrew

PoP wrote in message . ..

Which part of the country are you in?

The reason for asking is that I have just purchased one of these
worktop jigs, and I would be willing to do a couple of freebies just
to get some practice in.

PoP

Thanks for the offer PoP

We're both in the same situation though because although I have used a
router before, I have never used one with this type of jig so I need
the practice myself!

Steve

Billy Whizz wrote in message .254.254...


Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, but he used a bisuit cutter
too to ensure the tops stayed level etc. Not something I would have
thought of unless I saw him do it.

I think these - http://tinyurl.com/ocwb - are more commonly used
these days, especially if like me you don't have a biscuit jointer.

Steve

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...

The tric is that the cut is at 90 degrees except the bit over the
radius, which is at 45 to get everything to line up. That last 45 cut
can be done with a rasp, hand saw, or even a fine toothed jig saw - or
if you are brave, the router.


A straight 45 degree cut over the radius, no jig required! - damn
where was my lateral thinking when I needed it. I like this idea. It's
definitely going to be more fiddly than using a jig and will require
patience to get it perfect but it saves me £100. I'm going to try it
on a offcut to see how it goes. Thanks NP.

Steve

PoP wrote in message . ..

I suppose it might be feasible to hire one of these out for a couple
of days and then copy-route a duplicate from MDF or whatever. I'm not
sure that would retain the accuracy in the copied version, but maybe
it would be close enough if you used a router bit with a bearing
follower.

Hi

That's what my kitchen fitter used. It was a copy of one of the 900mm
jigs onto 18mm ply, made with a straight cutter and following bearing.

Worked just fine.

IanC

On 23 Sep 2003 08:03:28 -0700, (Ian Clowes)
wrote:

That's what my kitchen fitter used. It was a copy of one of the 900mm
jigs onto 18mm ply, made with a straight cutter and following bearing.

I'm almost tempted to create a copy for using "in the field", just in
case I manage to bring the router into contact with the real thing one
day.

PoP

Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On 22 Sep 2003 13:57:51 -0700, (Michael
McNeil) wrote:

You can get a fairly good cut from a circular saw.

Except for a neatly coped edge on an interior corner joint.

It has been years since I've done one but I think that I got a good
cut. The problem is in enuring the angle of the walls is 90 degrees.
Of course the wall can be hacked to take an oversized top.

What you do is cut one then mark the other with it. And cut them
overlength. An eightth is adequate.

(Steve North) wrote in message . com...
Billy Whizz wrote in message .254.254...


Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, but he used a bisuit cutter
too to ensure the tops stayed level etc. Not something I would have
thought of unless I saw him do it.

I think these - http://tinyurl.com/ocwb - are more commonly used
these days, especially if like me you don't have a biscuit jointer.

Steve


Can someone explain to me how you use one of those, I'm puzzled about
it.

My natural inclination was to use a piece of flat metal underneath
with holes in, screwed to the underside.


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
(Steve North) wrote in message
. com...
Billy Whizz wrote in message
.254.254...


Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, but he used a bisuit cutter
too to ensure the tops stayed level etc. Not something I would have
thought of unless I saw him do it.

I think these - http://tinyurl.com/ocwb - are more commonly used
these days, especially if like me you don't have a biscuit jointer.

Steve


Can someone explain to me how you use one of those, I'm puzzled about
it.

My natural inclination was to use a piece of flat metal underneath
with holes in, screwed to the underside.


Regards, NT

You drill two holes part way through the underside - a little like the
euro-hinge fitting holes for kitchen doors.,

They're joined together with a straight dado (only about 2cm long) between
them.

simply slot the fixing in, then tighten.

well, that's how I'bve seen them used anyway.

cheers
Richard

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..
"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
(Steve North) wrote in message
. com...
Billy Whizz wrote in message
.254.254...


Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, but he used a bisuit
cutter
too to ensure the tops stayed level etc. Not something I would have
thought of unless I saw him do it.

I think these - http://tinyurl.com/ocwb - are more commonly used
these days, especially if like me you don't have a biscuit jointer.

Steve


Can someone explain to me how you use one of those, I'm puzzled about
it.

My natural inclination was to use a piece of flat metal underneath
with holes in, screwed to the underside.


Regards, NT

You drill two holes part way through the underside - a little like the
euro-hinge fitting holes for kitchen doors.,

They're joined together with a straight dado (only about 2cm long) between
them.

simply slot the fixing in, then tighten.

well, that's how I'bve seen them used anyway.


Forgot to say, that's what all these additional cutouts are for on the
commercially available worktop jigs. Routing the cutouts.

cheers
Richard
--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On 23 Sep 2003 07:20:12 -0700, (Steve
North) wrote:

I think these - http://tinyurl.com/ocwb - are more commonly used
these days, especially if like me you don't have a biscuit jointer.

Might be worth cosying up to SWMBO for an early Christmas present.
Screwfix still have their "special offer" biscuit jointer for £34.99.

I bought one a short time ago. Maybe it isn't as good as those from
well-known brands, but at about 10% of the price.....and it works fine
for me.

PoP

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message ...
"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...

Can someone explain to me how you use one of those, I'm puzzled about
it.

My natural inclination was to use a piece of flat metal underneath
with holes in, screwed to the underside.


You drill two holes part way through the underside - a little like the
euro-hinge fitting holes for kitchen doors.,

They're joined together with a straight dado (only about 2cm long) between
them.

simply slot the fixing in, then tighten.

well, that's how I'bve seen them used anyway.


ahhh

thanks, NT

PoP wrote in message . ..

I'm almost tempted to create a copy for using "in the field", just in
case I manage to bring the router into contact with the real thing one
day.

That's one reason.

I think the guy was also a bit hacked off with having stuff nicked on
site, from the van, etc.

This way he was able to protect his investment in this particular
item, the 900mm ones being even more expensive than the 650mm ones.

Cheers
IanC

Steve North wrote:

A straight 45 degree cut over the radius, no jig required! - damn
where was my lateral thinking when I needed it. I like this idea. It's

I did a worktop using this method with a jigsaw and a fine blade.

For the "receptive" half of the join I carefully marked out the main cut
and the intersecting 45" cut - made the intersecting short cut first
then the main one. (cut from the underside of the worktop unless you
have a down cut blade for the jigsaw). Then simply cut the matching
corner of the end of the other half. Finally I routed a 1/4" slot into
the mating ends of the worktop - added wood glue and hammered in a
wooden lath (a long biscuit if you like). Fitted the first half of the
worktop in place and then tapped the mating part of worktop into place
using a club hammer and a bit of scrap softwood to protect the end of
the worktop. The join was not as "perfect" as you will get with the
template - but a good deal less unsightly that those nasty joining strips!


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

Andrew wrote:

IMHO 45 deg cuts are fine but you waste more worktop as each piece has
to be long enough to reach into the corner. May not be an issue if you
have length to spare from a standard length worktop. You still need
some way to ensure you get the "same" 45 deg on each piece.

I would have thought the trick is to make one of the 45 deg cuts, and
then place the uncut bit into position in the corner and lay the cut bit
in position but on top of it, and use it to mark the exact cut angle
needed. This should automatically take into account any variation
intruduced by the corner not being perfectly square.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:51:35 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Andrew wrote:

IMHO 45 deg cuts are fine but you waste more worktop as each piece has
to be long enough to reach into the corner. May not be an issue if you
have length to spare from a standard length worktop. You still need
some way to ensure you get the "same" 45 deg on each piece.

I would have thought the trick is to make one of the 45 deg cuts, and
then place the uncut bit into position in the corner and lay the cut bit
in position but on top of it, and use it to mark the exact cut angle
needed. This should automatically take into account any variation
intruduced by the corner not being perfectly square.

That won't work. If you did that and the corner wasn't 90 degrees, the
front edge won't meet up properly. If you do do a mitre right across, the
two pieces have to have the same angle.

John Armstrong wrote:

That won't work. If you did that and the corner wasn't 90 degrees, the
front edge won't meet up properly. If you do do a mitre right across, the
two pieces have to have the same angle.

Depends on how far of square it is I suppose - a couple of degrees is
not going to make that much difference in the slant length of the cut.
Also any small discrepancy can be positioned at the back against the
wall where it will normally be obscured by the worktop to wall seal.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:52:20 +0100, John Armstrong
wrote:

That won't work. If you did that and the corner wasn't 90 degrees, the
front edge won't meet up properly. If you do do a mitre right across, the
two pieces have to have the same angle.

You are technically correct. However a small discrepancy with the
angle on one side would most probably not cause a noteworthy problem.
The biggest issue here would be at the back edge of the worktop where
the two corner pieces meet - one would be longer than the other
causing a slight overhang - but as the rear edge of worktops is
invariably covered by tiling and similar wall covering that's not
normally a big problem to hide.

I recently acquired a 650mm Screwfix worktop jig. The thing I noted
fairly quickly was that it takes a little care to align the plastic
pins to the workpiece - if you apply pressure to the alignment then
the angle could change very, very slightly. I guess I was a bit
surprised that the alignment wasn't more precise in that respect.

I don't see that as a fault of the jig, most likely more of a feature
to enable you to offset the angle very slightly in the event you might
want to do so, to take account of angles between walls which aren't
precisely 90 degrees (and let's face it, few are).

PoP

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:08:16 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

John Armstrong wrote:

That won't work. If you did that and the corner wasn't 90 degrees, the
front edge won't meet up properly. If you do do a mitre right across, the
two pieces have to have the same angle.

Depends on how far of square it is I suppose - a couple of degrees is
not going to make that much difference in the slant length of the cut.
Also any small discrepancy can be positioned at the back against the
wall where it will normally be obscured by the worktop to wall seal.

I am used to dealing with my house which definitely isn't square :-)
One corner of my kitchen is around 5 degrees out of square, which if you
cut one of the bits of worktop with a straight 45deg cut would have that
diagonal cut 65mm longer than the other.
If it was 2 degrees out the difference woud still be 28mm.