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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On 10 May, 20:30, Drake wrote:
I was mystified by something I experienced today. I'm sure any electrician will know the answer. Sorry if its a naive question. I was using one of those electrical screwdrivers with abuilt-in diode for identifying live wires. I wanted to disconnect a security light on my house but I wasn't sure which circuit it was connected to. I concluded the light was wired into the lighting circuit, because it failed to come on after I pulled the main fuse from that circuit. But just to play safe, I touched the screwdriver onto the terminals in the junction box which the light was connected to. The diode didn't light up. However, when I touched the brass end of the screwdriver's handle, it lit up, quite brightly. So I found my volt meter and tested the wires to see if there was any voltage there. No voltage registered. Can anyone explain why the diode lit up when I touched the brass end? And it lit up the same, whether I touched the screwdriver onto the live, the neutral or the earth terminal. Regards, Drake Did you read the instructions? The light will only light when you touch the end as you're completing the circuit. Why it lights on all three wires is somehting else though! |
#2
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
I was mystified by something I experienced today. I'm sure any electrician will know the answer. Sorry if its a naive question. I was using one of those electrical screwdrivers with abuilt-in diode for identifying live wires. I wanted to disconnect a security light on my house but I wasn't sure which circuit it was connected to. I concluded the light was wired into the lighting circuit, because it failed to come on after I pulled the main fuse from that circuit. But just to play safe, I touched the screwdriver onto the terminals in the junction box which the light was connected to. The diode didn't light up. However, when I touched the brass end of the screwdriver's handle, it lit up, quite brightly. So I found my volt meter and tested the wires to see if there was any voltage there. No voltage registered. Can anyone explain why the diode lit up when I touched the brass end? And it lit up the same, whether I touched the screwdriver onto the live, the neutral or the earth terminal. Regards, Drake |
#3
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Thu, 10 May 2007 20:30:52 +0100, Drake
mused: I was mystified by something I experienced today. I'm sure any electrician will know the answer. Sorry if its a naive question. I was using one of those electrical screwdrivers with abuilt-in diode for identifying live wires. I wanted to disconnect a security light on my house but I wasn't sure which circuit it was connected to. I concluded the light was wired into the lighting circuit, because it failed to come on after I pulled the main fuse from that circuit. But just to play safe, I touched the screwdriver onto the terminals in the junction box which the light was connected to. The diode didn't light up. However, when I touched the brass end of the screwdriver's handle, it lit up, quite brightly. So I found my volt meter and tested the wires to see if there was any voltage there. No voltage registered. Can anyone explain why the diode lit up when I touched the brass end? And it lit up the same, whether I touched the screwdriver onto the live, the neutral or the earth terminal. Basically, those neon screwdrivers are absolutely crap. Don't ever use it as a means of testing for power, ever. It's as safe as the wet finger test. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#4
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Thu, 10 May 2007 19:30:52 UTC, Drake wrote:
I was mystified by something I experienced today. I'm sure any electrician will know the answer. Sorry if its a naive question. Several naive bits actually. Did you read the instructions? I was using one of those electrical screwdrivers with abuilt-in diode for identifying live wires. Not a diode - a neon. A fairly massive difference. If it were a diode you'd get a shock! I wanted to disconnect a security light on my house but I wasn't sure which circuit it was connected to. I concluded the light was wired into the lighting circuit, because it failed to come on after I pulled the main fuse from that circuit. But just to play safe, I touched the screwdriver onto the terminals in the junction box which the light was connected to. The diode didn't light up. The NEON wouldn't light without sometjing else to complete the circuit. You're only giving it one contact - the blade. However, when I touched the brass end of the screwdriver's handle, it lit up, quite brightly. That's the other contact. It needs only a tiny current - which is just as well. That's what you are meant to do. So I found my volt meter and tested the wires to see if there was any voltage there. No voltage registered. The neon is very high resistance and so nothing will show. Can anyone explain why the diode lit up when I touched the brass end? And it lit up the same, whether I touched the screwdriver onto the live, the neutral or the earth terminal. As explained above. These things can be lethal: 1) They fail without warning. Don't ever rely on them if they say there ISN'T a voltage. 2) If they get damaged and short (unlikely, but...) you can get a serious shock. Use a voltmeter. You had one, so use it! -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#5
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... Use a voltmeter. You had one, so use it! Whist I agree with everything you say, modern voltmeters can be misleading too. Modern DVMs have such a high input impedance that they can find stray voltage on longish runs of cable which is actually of such high source impedance that it will drop to zero volts as soon as any ( even megohm ) load is put on it. So they can indicate a voltage as present when it's not really. ( Safer than the reverse, of course! ) I trust my old 20Kohm/v AVO-8 for this kind of thing more than my fancy all-singing Fluke DVM. -- Ron |
#6
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in
: I trust my old 20Kohm/v AVO-8 for this kind of thing more than my fancy all-singing Fluke DVM. AVO-8 even.... Respect mike |
#7
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Thu, 10 May 2007 20:37:40 UTC, "Ron Lowe"
ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote: "Bob Eager" wrote in message ... Use a voltmeter. You had one, so use it! Whist I agree with everything you say, modern voltmeters can be misleading too. I agree...good point. I was rather assuming a cheap low impedance one...! I trust my old 20Kohm/v AVO-8 for this kind of thing more than my fancy all-singing Fluke DVM. Indeed. I use a cheap one I got from Maplin many years ago. Friend of mine has an 8, but then he had a summer job at Avo for years! -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#8
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On 10 May 2007 12:30:48 -0700, adder1969
wrote: Did you read the instructions? No, I've never read the instructions. I don't think it came with any. The light will only light when you touch the end as you're completing the circuit. Not actually true with this particular screwdriver. If you touch it onto a genuinely live contact, the red light lights up brightly whether you have your finger on the end or not. Why it lights on all three wires is somehting else though! Yes, I hope someone here can offer a possible explanation. Drake |
#9
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Thu, 10 May 2007 21:39:35 UTC, Drake wrote:
On 10 May 2007 20:20:19 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote: I wanted to disconnect a security light on my house but I wasn't sure which circuit it was connected to. I concluded the light was wired into the lighting circuit, because it failed to come on after I pulled the main fuse from that circuit. But just to play safe, I touched the screwdriver onto the terminals in the junction box which the light was connected to. The diode didn't light up. The NEON wouldn't light without sometjing else to complete the circuit. You're only giving it one contact - the blade. Funnily enough, as I mentioned to adder, it does light up if you touch it on a genuinely live conductor - even if you don't have a finger on the end! It doesn't require much leakage for the neon to light. Anyway, thanks to all for the input. I'd still like to know why the thing lit up when touched on junction box terminals after the fuse for that circuit was removed, and on all three too (including earth) - when a volt meter registered 0 volts. Leakage again...voltmeter is more reliable (but note that a cheap one is probably better here). -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#10
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On 10 May 2007 20:20:19 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:
I wanted to disconnect a security light on my house but I wasn't sure which circuit it was connected to. I concluded the light was wired into the lighting circuit, because it failed to come on after I pulled the main fuse from that circuit. But just to play safe, I touched the screwdriver onto the terminals in the junction box which the light was connected to. The diode didn't light up. The NEON wouldn't light without sometjing else to complete the circuit. You're only giving it one contact - the blade. Funnily enough, as I mentioned to adder, it does light up if you touch it on a genuinely live conductor - even if you don't have a finger on the end! Anyway, thanks to all for the input. I'd still like to know why the thing lit up when touched on junction box terminals after the fuse for that circuit was removed, and on all three too (including earth) - when a volt meter registered 0 volts. Drake |
#11
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Lurch wrote:
Basically, those neon screwdrivers are absolutely crap. Don't ever use it as a means of testing for power, ever. It's as safe as the wet finger test. What do you think of these? http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...45560&doy=10m5 -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#12
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Ron Lowe wrote:
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... Use a voltmeter. You had one, so use it! Whist I agree with everything you say, modern voltmeters can be misleading too. Modern DVMs have such a high input impedance that they can find stray voltage on longish runs of cable which is actually of such high source impedance that it will drop to zero volts as soon as any ( even megohm ) load is put on it. So they can indicate a voltage as present when it's not really. ( Safer than the reverse, of course! ) I trust my old 20Kohm/v AVO-8 for this kind of thing more than my fancy all-singing Fluke DVM. I had this problem when measuring the flap/slat asymmetry detection voltage on an aircraft I used to work on (it was an AC voltage wave form. 400 Hertz) The modern volt meters used to measure the residual voltages in the wiring. Reverting back to the milliamp hungry meters cured this and I could get a proper reading Never believe a reading from a modern meter, unless you know what you are doing. Dave |
#13
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Thu, 10 May 2007 22:09:55 UTC, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: Lurch wrote: Basically, those neon screwdrivers are absolutely crap. Don't ever use it as a means of testing for power, ever. It's as safe as the wet finger test. What do you think of these? http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...45560&doy=10m5 Wouldn't trust them either. (was waiting for someone to mention them!) -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
#14
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
The Medway Handyman wrote:
What do you think of these? http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...45560&doy=10m5 They are not quite as evil as the neon based contact type, but I am not sure I would trust them as a sole means of identifying energised circuits. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#15
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Drake wrote:
Anyway, thanks to all for the input. I'd still like to know why the thing lit up when touched on junction box terminals after the fuse for that circuit was removed, and on all three too (including earth) - when a volt meter registered 0 volts. Its called inductive coupling. The wires probably run some distance in proximity to other wires which are live. Although there is no physical connection between them the alternating magnetic field produced by the current flowing in the live circuit will induce a voltage in the disconnected one. (same principle by which a transformer works) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#16
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Its called inductive coupling. The wires probably run some distance in
proximity to other wires which are live. Although there is no physical connection between them the alternating magnetic field produced by the current flowing in the live circuit will induce a voltage in the disconnected one. (same principle by which a transformer works) -- Cheers, John. Sense at last! Yes, you need to be careful with neon screwdrivers. A false negative may mean a broken screwdriver but if you check that it is working every time you use it the chance of getting zapped is very low (and if you short every potential live to earth before touching it it is even lower). You can often recognise a false positive caused by induction because they don't light quite so brightly. I prefer my cheapo "electronic" screwdrive which buzzes on a live because it will do this through insulation, but I still use neons. And I always check that it's working before trusting it. |
#17
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Newshound wrote:
use it the chance of getting zapped is very low (and if you short every potential live to earth before touching it it is even lower). You can often I gave up using my one after confirming that I had pulled the correct fuse with the thing, and then did the live to earth check "just to be sure". The big blue flash and the vaporising of the end of the screwdriver was enough to convince me never to trust one again! (the lack of a blade also rendered that one less useful as well) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#18
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
In article ,
Ron Lowe ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote: I trust my old 20Kohm/v AVO-8 for this kind of thing more than my fancy all-singing Fluke DVM. It's a bit big for simple volt measurements like this, though. Pretty well any analogue meter will do - or simply fit a shunt to the Fluke. My Model 8 stays on the shelf these days - too expensive for general use outside the workshop. For general 'are there volts present and how many' type uses, this is my device of choice:- http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...741/index.html It avoids having a high input impedance where it's not needed. -- *When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#19
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
In article ,
Bob Eager wrote: Funnily enough, as I mentioned to adder, it does light up if you touch it on a genuinely live conductor - even if you don't have a finger on the end! It doesn't require much leakage for the neon to light. If it's a red light it's likely one of those volt stick devices which is active in operation. It has a small amp built in. With these you really do need to read the instructions. -- *Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#20
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Thu, 10 May 2007 23:57:52 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: Drake wrote: Anyway, thanks to all for the input. I'd still like to know why the thing lit up when touched on junction box terminals after the fuse for that circuit was removed, and on all three too (including earth) - when a volt meter registered 0 volts. Its called inductive coupling. The wires probably run some distance in proximity to other wires which are live. Although there is no physical connection between them the alternating magnetic field produced by the current flowing in the live circuit will induce a voltage in the disconnected one. (same principle by which a transformer works) Ah, yes. I know for a fact that the cable leading to that circuit does run close to other cables for some distance. Thanks for the education! Drake |
#21
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... The Medway Handyman wrote: What do you think of these? http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...45560&doy=10m5 They are not quite as evil as the neon based contact type, but I am not sure I would trust them as a sole means of identifying energised circuits. They are not bad. I trust them on T&E cables if used properly. Adam |
#22
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Fri, 11 May 2007 16:44:31 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
mused: "John Rumm" wrote in message ... The Medway Handyman wrote: What do you think of these? http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...45560&doy=10m5 They are not quite as evil as the neon based contact type, but I am not sure I would trust them as a sole means of identifying energised circuits. They are not bad. I trust them on T&E cables if used properly. Yeah, although I've only ever used the MK and Fluke ones. I've seen people with unbranded\cheap ones and they are somewhat erratic. Just remember not to use it as a sole means of testing when your having an NICEIC inspection. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#23
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
John Rumm wrote:
Its called inductive coupling. The wires probably run some distance in proximity to other wires which are live. Although there is no physical connection between them the alternating magnetic field produced by the current flowing in the live circuit will induce a voltage in the disconnected one. (same principle by which a transformer works) Sorry John, that's completely wrong. There's no way you'd get enough inductive (electro_magnetic_) coupling in this sort of situation to induce a voltage high enough to light a neon. Capacitive coupling is the mechanism involved here, aka electro_static_ induction (note induction, not inductive). What was probably happening was that the OP's body was near enough to a live cable to pick up a significant voltage (there's no shock felt of course because any current flowing is tiny (microamps) and there's no point of skin contact). The sharp end of the screwdriver was in contact with an earth or neutral terminal and it was the user that provided the 'live' connection to the blunt end. You can get similar 'false positive' effects when using a 'volt-stick' type of indicator with your body near to a live cable. Moral: always use a proper voltage indicator or test lamp and test it on a known live supply (or proving unit) both before and after isolating & checking the circuit you intend to work on. -- Andy |
#24
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Andy Wade wrote:
Sorry John, that's completely wrong. There's no way you'd get enough inductive (electro_magnetic_) coupling in this sort of situation to induce a voltage high enough to light a neon. Yup, you could well be right thinking about it... different case from false positives with a high impedance DVM. What sort of strike voltage does a neon need? Capacitive coupling is the mechanism involved here, aka electro_static_ induction (note induction, not inductive). What was probably happening was that the OP's body was near enough to a live cable to pick up a significant voltage (there's no shock felt of course because any current flowing is tiny (microamps) and there's no point of skin contact). The sharp end of the screwdriver was in contact with an earth or neutral terminal and it was the user that provided the 'live' connection to the blunt end. You can get similar 'false positive' effects when using a 'volt-stick' type of indicator with your body near to a live cable. That would better explain the thing lighting on the neutral and earth wires since unlike the live they would not have been left floating by pulling the fuse. Moral: always use a proper voltage indicator or test lamp and test it on a known live supply (or proving unit) both before and after isolating & checking the circuit you intend to work on. Can't argue with that! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#25
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Andy Wade wrote:
Moral: always use a proper voltage indicator or test lamp and test it on a known live supply (or proving unit) both before and after isolating & checking the circuit you intend to work on. I only do minor electrical stuff like changing lights. My proceedure is; Switch light on, check with volt stick to ensure volt stick is working. Remove fuse/turn off breaker for relevant circuit. Check again with volt stick. I assume thats safe enough? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#26
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Sat, 12 May 2007 10:29:36 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused: Andy Wade wrote: Moral: always use a proper voltage indicator or test lamp and test it on a known live supply (or proving unit) both before and after isolating & checking the circuit you intend to work on. I only do minor electrical stuff like changing lights. My proceedure is; Switch light on, check with volt stick to ensure volt stick is working. Remove fuse/turn off breaker for relevant circuit. Check again with volt stick. I assume thats safe enough? Bit OTT for me, if there's a lamp in the fitting the volt stick stays in the tool box. If you know what you're doing with a volt stick they're safe enough, but technically trhey're for an indication of voltage rather than a tester as such. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#27
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
John Rumm wrote:
What sort of strike voltage does a neon need? Usually in the 60 - 90 V sort of range. -- Andy |
#28
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Owain wrote:
I assume thats safe enough? No, because if you rewrite your procedu Switch light on, check with volt stick to ensure volt stick is working. Remove fuse/turn off breaker for hopefully-relevant circuit. Volt stick breaks. Check again with volt stick. Get shock. you can see the flaw. I do - thanks. You must check your tester on a known live supply *before* AND *after* checking the circuit to ensure your tester is not broken and giving you a false negative. Easy enough to do. Also, when you say "turn off" you should say "lock off" unless the CU is under your control whilst working on the circuit. Electricity At Work Regulations apply to you. If its a fuse I put in in my pocket. How would I lock off a breaker? -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#29
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Sat, 12 May 2007 13:36:26 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused: Owain wrote: I assume thats safe enough? No, because if you rewrite your procedu Switch light on, check with volt stick to ensure volt stick is working. Remove fuse/turn off breaker for hopefully-relevant circuit. Volt stick breaks. Check again with volt stick. Get shock. you can see the flaw. I do - thanks. You must check your tester on a known live supply *before* AND *after* checking the circuit to ensure your tester is not broken and giving you a false negative. Easy enough to do. Also, when you say "turn off" you should say "lock off" unless the CU is under your control whilst working on the circuit. Electricity At Work Regulations apply to you. If its a fuse I put in in my pocket. ' Not actually an acceptable method, technically. How would I lock off a breaker? With a padlock, used on a breaker with lock off facilities or with a MCB lock off kit. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#30
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
In article ,
Lurch wrote: If its a fuse I put in in my pocket. ' Not actually an acceptable method, technically. How would I lock off a breaker? With a padlock, used on a breaker with lock off facilities or with a MCB lock off kit. Far better to kick everyone out of the house and lock the doors. After they've made the tea, obviously. -- *INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#31
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Sat, 12 May 2007 16:48:12 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused: In article , Lurch wrote: If its a fuse I put in in my pocket. ' Not actually an acceptable method, technically. How would I lock off a breaker? With a padlock, used on a breaker with lock off facilities or with a MCB lock off kit. Far better to kick everyone out of the house and lock the doors. After they've made the tea, obviously. Only if you ensure the doors can't be re-opened by unauthorised personnel. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#32
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Sat, 12 May 2007 19:39:57 +0100, Owain
mused: Lurch wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" mused: How would I lock off a breaker? With a padlock, used on a breaker with lock off facilities or with a MCB lock off kit. Far better to kick everyone out of the house and lock the doors. After they've made the tea, obviously. Only if you ensure the doors can't be re-opened by unauthorised personnel. And you've carried out a risk assessment and followed procedures for lone working. Woulnd't be too clever to lock everyone else out and then electrocute yourself. I think the moral of the story is don't do electrics unless you are an electrician, not a handyman. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#33
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Lurch wrote:
I think the moral of the story is don't do electrics unless you are an electrician, not a handyman. Which would leave large numbers of people who wanted small, simple jobs done waiting for electricians who don't turn up, don't call back and generally can't be arsed with small jobs - and charge an arm & a leg if they do ever arrive. Apart from which, if the dreaded Part P says it's OK, then it's OK. Personally I think electricians & plumbers should be banned from attempting to 'make good' after their work, since they are clearly incompetant - on second thoughts they should be encouraged to do so - it provides me with lucrative work. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#34
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
On Sat, 12 May 2007 20:45:34 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
mused: Lurch wrote: I think the moral of the story is don't do electrics unless you are an electrician, not a handyman. Which would leave large numbers of people who wanted small, simple jobs done waiting for electricians who don't turn up, don't call back and generally can't be arsed with small jobs - and charge an arm & a leg if they do ever arrive. OK. Apart from which, if the dreaded Part P says it's OK, then it's OK. Personally I think electricians & plumbers should be banned from attempting to 'make good' after their work, since they are clearly incompetant - on second thoughts they should be encouraged to do so - it provides me with lucrative work. Depends, case by case really. Some are genuine mistakes, some are just incompetent. -- Regards, Stuart. |
#35
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote: Woulnd't be too clever to lock everyone else out and then electrocute yourself. I think the moral of the story is don't do electrics unless you are an electrician, not a handyman. The moral of the story is use a proper tester and testing procedure every time. I can still remember the time I assumed that because the bedroom and kitchen sockets were dead the lounge one would be. How was I to know it had been wired onto the same 15A fuse as the bathroom wall heater, immersion, and garage socket. With those I work on the principle that when the lights on my socket tester go out there is a fair chance I have identified the circuit. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote: Woulnd't be too clever to lock everyone else out and then electrocute yourself. I think the moral of the story is don't do electrics unless you are an electrician, not a handyman. The moral of the story is use a proper tester and testing procedure every time. I can still remember the time I assumed that because the bedroom and kitchen sockets were dead the lounge one would be. How was I to know it had been wired onto the same 15A fuse as the bathroom wall heater, immersion, and garage socket. Indeed. A similar situation prompted me to ask the question. It's amazing what you find in peoples houses........... Thanks for the advice - proceedure changed. -- Dave The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk 01634 717930 07850 597257 |
#37
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote: I can still remember the time I assumed that because the bedroom and kitchen sockets were dead the lounge one would be. How was I to know it had been wired onto the same 15A fuse as the bathroom wall heater, immersion, and garage socket. Indeed. A similar situation prompted me to ask the question. It's amazing what you find in peoples houses........... Yes. Never ever assume anything with electricity. What is a logical layout to you almost certainly isn't to others. And that's before pragmatism comes into the equation. -- Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#38
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Andy Wade wrote:
Moral: always use a proper voltage indicator or test lamp and test it on a known live supply (or proving unit) both before and after isolating & checking the circuit you intend to work on. I wish I had taken that advice a few years ago. The cable tv man was coming so I had pulled the TV and stand etc out and decided to spend the time figuring out why the socket behind it didn't work. So I pulled the fuse for the downstairs ring, noted that nothing was on but did not test the recalcitrant socket. So there I was poking about in the switch seeing if the connections were good when there was a flash and the lights went out (it was an overcast winters day). Turned out that socket had been extended not from the ring, but from a port for a hard wired standard lamp, so when I shorted it the lighting fuse blew. I have been much more careful since and will take Andy's advice to heart for all further such excursions. Peter -- Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country www.the-brights.net |
#39
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
Huge wrote:
On 2007-05-14, Peter Ashby wrote: Andy Wade wrote: Moral: always use a proper voltage indicator or test lamp and test it on a known live supply (or proving unit) both before and after isolating & checking the circuit you intend to work on. I wish I had taken that advice a few years ago. The cable tv man was coming so I had pulled the TV and stand etc out and decided to spend the time figuring out why the socket behind it didn't work. So I pulled the fuse for the downstairs ring, noted that nothing was on but did not test the recalcitrant socket. So there I was poking about in the switch seeing if the connections were good when there was a flash and the lights went out (it was an overcast winters day). Turned out that socket had been extended not from the ring, but from a port for a hard wired standard lamp, so when I shorted it the lighting fuse blew. I have been much more careful since and will take Andy's advice to heart for all further such excursions. Those of us old enough to remember the safety films shown on daytime TV may well remember the one about electrical safety whose safety acronym I remember to this day; SIDE Switch Off Isolate Dump Earth I may be old enough but I grew up elsewhere ;-) Peter -- Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country www.the-brights.net |
#40
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A weird thing with an electrical screwdriver
In article ,
Peter Ashby wrote: I wish I had taken that advice a few years ago. The cable tv man was coming so I had pulled the TV and stand etc out and decided to spend the time figuring out why the socket behind it didn't work. So I pulled the fuse for the downstairs ring, noted that nothing was on but did not test the recalcitrant socket. So there I was poking about in the switch seeing if the connections were good when there was a flash and the lights went out (it was an overcast winters day). Turned out that socket had been extended not from the ring, but from a port for a hard wired standard lamp, so when I shorted it the lighting fuse blew. I have been much more careful since and will take Andy's advice to heart for all further such excursions. Indeed. However I'd not use a 13 amp outlet for a floor fed lamp, and not just for the reasons you've given. Most such circuits will be on a dimmer and plugging the Hoover into such a circuit can be expensive to fix. Hence they should really be a suitable round pin type which are available these days in most styles from most makers. -- *When did my wild oats turn to prunes and all bran? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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