Hi Guys


One of my future projects is an upgrade of the downstairs loo.
Currently, this loo is ideal for those more stubborn deposits, as it is a
1970s full flush low level cistern.

Having already been bitten by these pathetic new 6 litre cistern/pan
offerings that don't rinse the entire bowl, my thoughts turned to the
following.
To ensure that we have one toilet that still works effectively/hygienically
I was considering:

Retain the existing cistern.
Pipe the overflow down the outside of the cistern and into the flush pipe
(overflow is currently to external drain and needs to be internal!).
Recondition cistern, ie replace all internals.
Box/wall in cistern and fit a modern back-to-wall pan.

This way the room can be re-worked to modern spec without loss of
functionality.


OK - The Questions

Other than the fact that this does not conform to current regs (but won't be
visibly flouting the rules) -
Can anyone see anything technically wrong here?
Will a modern pan work with an old cistern?
Do fittings exist to pipe overflow into flush pipe or would this have to be
a home bodge?


TIA

Phil

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
TheScullster wrote:

Hi Guys


One of my future projects is an upgrade of the downstairs loo.
Currently, this loo is ideal for those more stubborn deposits, as it
is a 1970s full flush low level cistern.

Having already been bitten by these pathetic new 6 litre cistern/pan
offerings that don't rinse the entire bowl, my thoughts turned to the
following.
To ensure that we have one toilet that still works
effectively/hygienically I was considering:

Retain the existing cistern.
Pipe the overflow down the outside of the cistern and into the flush
pipe (overflow is currently to external drain and needs to be
internal!). Recondition cistern, ie replace all internals.
Box/wall in cistern and fit a modern back-to-wall pan.

This way the room can be re-worked to modern spec without loss of
functionality.


OK - The Questions

Other than the fact that this does not conform to current regs (but
won't be visibly flouting the rules) -

Which regs do you have in mind?

Can anyone see anything technically wrong here?
Will a modern pan work with an old cistern?

Could be a problem. Most modern pans which I've seen are designed to use a
close-coupled cistern, and have an extension at the back with an
upward-facing hole, and a rubber doughnut to connect to the cistern. I'm not
sure how you would connect a low-level cistern to one of these.

Do fittings exist to pipe overflow into flush pipe or would this have
to be a home bodge?

I don't know about connecting to the flush pipe, but I have seen overflow
pipes - often in hotels etc. - which discharge into the pan. The discharge
end is very flat so that they can go over the back lip of the pan and under
the seat. Alternatively, if you replace the syphon flush with a push-button
flush, this will automatically have an internal overflow.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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"TheScullster" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys


One of my future projects is an upgrade of the downstairs loo.
Currently, this loo is ideal for those more stubborn deposits, as it is a
1970s full flush low level cistern.

Having already been bitten by these pathetic new 6 litre cistern/pan
offerings that don't rinse the entire bowl, my thoughts turned to the
following.
To ensure that we have one toilet that still works
effectively/hygienically I was considering:

Retain the existing cistern.
Pipe the overflow down the outside of the cistern and into the flush pipe
(overflow is currently to external drain and needs to be internal!).
Recondition cistern, ie replace all internals.
Box/wall in cistern and fit a modern back-to-wall pan.

This way the room can be re-worked to modern spec without loss of
functionality.


OK - The Questions

Other than the fact that this does not conform to current regs (but won't
be visibly flouting the rules) -
Can anyone see anything technically wrong here?
Will a modern pan work with an old cistern?
Do fittings exist to pipe overflow into flush pipe or would this have to
be a home bodge?

rather than modify overflow into flush pipe, have a look at Look at
BES.co.uk , part number 12718
It's a pan connector to replace existing one that accepts additional waste
water ( usually from basin etc )
Connect the overflow pipe into this using readily available adaptors from
any decent plumbing merchants.




TIA

Phil

Don't forget to add a trap in the overfow circuit. I stayed in a guest
house
one time where they didn't. When the fan ran the smell got worse, rather
than
better, as it pulled in all the foul air from the drains.

Good call
Thanks Mr Thumbs

Phil

"Set Square" wrote

Other than the fact that this does not conform to current regs (but
won't be visibly flouting the rules) -

Which regs do you have in mind?

I may have been wrong in mentioning regulations applicable to existing
installations.
But, toilet manufacturers are now using Defra guidelines to design cistern
capacities and assess flushing performance.
As most users of the new offerings are finding, these recommendations lead
to woefully inadequate flushing and, just as importantly for people with
inquisitive children, bowl cleaning.

Phil

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
TheScullster wrote:

"Set Square" wrote

Other than the fact that this does not conform to current regs (but
won't be visibly flouting the rules) -

Which regs do you have in mind?

I may have been wrong in mentioning regulations applicable to existing
installations.
But, toilet manufacturers are now using Defra guidelines to design
cistern capacities and assess flushing performance.
As most users of the new offerings are finding, these recommendations
lead to woefully inadequate flushing and, just as importantly for
people with inquisitive children, bowl cleaning.

Phil

Ah, I see - the ones about saving water. As you say, with a hidden cistern,
you're unlikely to be found out!

It's just possible that, even with a reduced amount of water, you could get
adequate clearance if you could dump it from a great enough height. It's
really flow *rate* rather than flow *volume* which matters - as witnessed by
the effect of pouring half a bucket of water directly into the pan.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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