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Does plastic pipe need insulating?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 15th 05, 02:52 PM
newman
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Default Does plastic pipe need insulating?

I am replacing some kitchen plumbing with Speedfit plastic pipe and
fittings. Does the plastic pipe need insulating against frozen pipe
problems which I have had in the past in this location?


Regards
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  #2  
Old August 15th 05, 03:05 PM
Rob Morley
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In article , "newman" aa111
@despammed.com says...
I am replacing some kitchen plumbing with Speedfit plastic pipe and
fittings. Does the plastic pipe need insulating against frozen pipe
problems which I have had in the past in this location?


Yes.
  #3  
Old August 15th 05, 03:30 PM
Christian McArdle
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I am replacing some kitchen plumbing with Speedfit plastic pipe and
fittings. Does the plastic pipe need insulating against frozen pipe
problems which I have had in the past in this location?


Yes.

Although it will be much better behaved than the copper.

Christian.


  #4  
Old August 15th 05, 04:04 PM
Andy Hall
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:52:10 GMT, newman wrote:

I am replacing some kitchen plumbing with Speedfit plastic pipe and
fittings. Does the plastic pipe need insulating against frozen pipe
problems which I have had in the past in this location?


Regards



If the location is such that the pipes were subject to freezing
before, then they still will be. Plastic pipe conducts heat less
quickly than copper, so the water will cool less quickly, but the
effect of insulation is to slow that down considerably further.

Personally, I would insulate this if there was a problem before.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #5  
Old August 15th 05, 04:27 PM
Set Square
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:52:10 GMT, newman wrote:

I am replacing some kitchen plumbing with Speedfit plastic pipe and
fittings. Does the plastic pipe need insulating against frozen pipe
problems which I have had in the past in this location?


Regards



If the location is such that the pipes were subject to freezing
before, then they still will be. Plastic pipe conducts heat less
quickly than copper, so the water will cool less quickly, but the
effect of insulation is to slow that down considerably further.

Personally, I would insulate this if there was a problem before.



Do the pipes get pushed out of the fittings if they *do* freeze?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #6  
Old August 15th 05, 06:03 PM
Andy Hall
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:27:01 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:52:10 GMT, newman wrote:

I am replacing some kitchen plumbing with Speedfit plastic pipe and
fittings. Does the plastic pipe need insulating against frozen pipe
problems which I have had in the past in this location?


Regards



If the location is such that the pipes were subject to freezing
before, then they still will be. Plastic pipe conducts heat less
quickly than copper, so the water will cool less quickly, but the
effect of insulation is to slow that down considerably further.

Personally, I would insulate this if there was a problem before.



Do the pipes get pushed out of the fittings if they *do* freeze?



I don't know, but since there will be an expansion of the water as it
freezes, it is not going to help

If there is going to be a failure, I would have thought that this
would be the likely area, as pipe manufacturers do say that the pipe
itself won't split.

http://www.johnguest.com/linkpages/SPFinstADV.html


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #7  
Old August 15th 05, 06:14 PM
Christian McArdle
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Do the pipes get pushed out of the fittings if they *do* freeze?


I don't know, but since there will be an expansion of the water as it
freezes, it is not going to help


I thought the biggest advantage of plastic pipework, rather than the extra
insulative qualities, was the fact that it can expand slightly to accomodate
volume change with a lower pressure increase.

The type of joints are another matter. Most of the joints on the plastic
pipework I used are actually compression joints. Only a few push fits.

However, my guess is that plastic pipework is less likely to result in a
failed joint than similar joints in copper. I have no empirical evidence to
back this up, though, and what I would imagine to be the best joint
(soldered) is not available in plastic.

Christian.


  #8  
Old August 15th 05, 11:11 PM
Pete C
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Default

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:14:58 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Do the pipes get pushed out of the fittings if they *do* freeze?



I don't know, but since there will be an expansion of the water as it
freezes, it is not going to help


I thought the biggest advantage of plastic pipework, rather than the extra
insulative qualities, was the fact that it can expand slightly to accomodate
volume change with a lower pressure increase.


The diameter will have to go up by 0.6mm with expansion from water
freezing, so I'd expect plastic pipe would be able to handle this.

After all it can be bent fairly tightly with cold forming bends which
must involve some stretching of the pipe on the outside.

Anyone on here had problems with plastic pipe or fittings splitting
when frozen?

cheers,
Pete.
  #9  
Old August 17th 05, 04:48 AM
Nick Atty
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:11:41 +0100, Pete C wrote:

Anyone on here had problems with plastic pipe or fittings splitting
when frozen?


We've got a mix of domestic style plastic pipe and hose type (just that
- potable quality flexible hose joined with 15mm pipe and jubilee clips)
on our narrow boat. When we leave it for the winter we just open the
taps after we've turned the water off.

The only problems we've had, even in very cold weather, has been that
the plastic pipe has pushed out of one of the compression joints once or
twice.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)
  #10  
Old August 17th 05, 11:38 PM
Dave Plowman (News)
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Default

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
However, my guess is that plastic pipework is less likely to result in a
failed joint than similar joints in copper. I have no empirical evidence
to back this up, though, and what I would imagine to be the best joint
(soldered) is not available in plastic.


I've seen soldered joints 'popped' by freezing. And I'd say they're likely
to be worse than compression or push fit which *might* allow some movement
before leaking.

--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 




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