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Water Ingress Past New Window



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 8th 05, 03:12 PM
TheScullster
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Default Water Ingress Past New Window

Hi all

As part of an extension re-furb we had 2 new windows fitted.
I noticed that at the corner where the internal sill meets the window
(actually there's a 3mm gap which needs filling), there were signs of damp.
A "quadrant" shape water stain was expanding from the corner up the new
plaster about 50mm radius.
The builder returned and ran sealant down each side of the window - for good
measure, I ran sealant along the top.
I have since painted over the plaster, but note that the window sill is
swollen in the corner.

The question is:

How can water be getting in?
I have examined the state of the newly applied sealant and it all looks good
and continuous.
There is a generous drip overhang on the outside sill.
Under the sill and all round the frame is rendered and painted - no obvious
gaps.

Can the seals between the glass and uPVC frame be defective?
Any other suggestions? Unlikely to be roof related as this is new tiled
version.

I notice that the window sill has a lip just under the main frame which
presumably stops water tracking back underneath.
If water gets past the glass seals, where will it go? This lip looks like
it will stop water getting out that drains "through" the frame.
There are milled slots in the bottom of the frame (under the opening window)
which appear to act as drains. These look as though they will discharge
water on the inside of the concealed sill lip.

Can anyone follow this lot?

Any suggestions for making room water tight appreciated.

TIA

Phil


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  #2  
Old August 8th 05, 07:21 PM
Michael Mcneil
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"TheScullster" wrote in message


How can water be getting in?
I have examined the state of the newly applied sealant and it all looks good
and continuous.
There is a generous drip overhang on the outside sill.
Under the sill and all round the frame is rendered and painted - no obvious
gaps.


Sounds like a duff fitting. If you are still getting leaks make the
builder remove and replace them or take them out and refit them.

Or get better people in.

Next time get the advice you need to DIY from the regulars here.


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  #3  
Old August 9th 05, 12:39 PM
TheScullster
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Default


"Michael Mcneil" said:
Sounds like a duff fitting. If you are still getting leaks make the
builder remove and replace them or take them out and refit them.


Thanks for response.
Do you mean the sealed glazed unit or the entire window?
Removing the entire window would be a hassle as it is now held captive by
render!


Next time get the advice you need to DIY from the regulars here.



I have DIYd quite a bit of this refurb, but, being an office worker, do not
have the physical strength to carry out the heavier building work.


Phil



  #4  
Old August 9th 05, 07:15 PM
Michael Mcneil
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"TheScullster" wrote in message


Removing the entire window would be a hassle as it is now held captive by
render!


Was all the blue protective paper removed after fitting?

Are the windows plumb, level and square?

It's difficult to give an answer to this sort of thing without seeing
it.


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  #5  
Old August 9th 05, 10:00 PM
Phil Hughes
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Default

In article , TheScullster
writes
Hi all

As part of an extension re-furb we had 2 new windows fitted.
I noticed that at the corner where the internal sill meets the window
(actually there's a 3mm gap which needs filling), there were signs of damp.
A "quadrant" shape water stain was expanding from the corner up the new
plaster about 50mm radius.
The builder returned and ran sealant down each side of the window - for good
measure, I ran sealant along the top.
I have since painted over the plaster, but note that the window sill is
swollen in the corner.

The question is:

How can water be getting in?


[snip]

My guess would be is that it is water getting in the seals, draining out
of the drainage holes in the frame, then running off the ends of the
sill as they haven't been sealed up.

Had a similar thing myself in a window. Fixing involved taking the frame
out and sealing up the gap between sill and frame at the end.
--
Phil Hughes
  #6  
Old August 10th 05, 10:00 AM
TheScullster
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Default


"Michael Mcneil" said

Was all the blue protective paper removed after fitting?


Don't think so, I can still see some protruding from behind the plaster
inside.
What are the implications?

Are the windows plumb, level and square?


I did check the window sill and that looked bang on!

Thanks

Phil


  #7  
Old August 10th 05, 10:45 AM
TheScullster
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"Phil Hughes" said:
My guess would be is that it is water getting in the seals, draining out
of the drainage holes in the frame, then running off the ends of the sill
as they haven't been sealed up.


Sorry I didn't describe things clearly enough, the sealant was continued
from the frame edge along the ends of the window sills.

I don't see how water that drains from the frame can escape. As explained
in the original post (perhaps not too clearly) there is a lip on top of the
sill just behind the front of the main frame, presumably to stop driving
rain being forced up under the main frame. Surely this also stops water
from draining away from the deliberate drain slots cut on the inside of the
frame below the opening window?

Had a similar thing myself in a window. Fixing involved taking the frame
out and sealing up the gap between sill and frame at the end.


Unfortunately I didn't see these fitted. Does the sill go in first, then
the window on top?
To check that I understand you, there is a gap under the frame which extends
up to the window opening. The sealant down the frame and alongside the sill
effectively goes over the top of this gap leaving a path for water to run
along the top edge of the sill just under the frame to the brick opening.
Is this the gap that you had to seal?


TIA

Phil



  #8  
Old August 10th 05, 10:07 PM
Phil Hughes
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In article , TheScullster
writes

"Phil Hughes" said:
My guess would be is that it is water getting in the seals, draining out
of the drainage holes in the frame, then running off the ends of the sill
as they haven't been sealed up.


Sorry I didn't describe things clearly enough, the sealant was continued
from the frame edge along the ends of the window sills.

I don't see how water that drains from the frame can escape. As explained
in the original post (perhaps not too clearly) there is a lip on top of the
sill just behind the front of the main frame, presumably to stop driving
rain being forced up under the main frame. Surely this also stops water
from draining away from the deliberate drain slots cut on the inside of the
frame below the opening window?

Had a similar thing myself in a window. Fixing involved taking the frame
out and sealing up the gap between sill and frame at the end.


Unfortunately I didn't see these fitted. Does the sill go in first, then
the window on top?
To check that I understand you, there is a gap under the frame which extends
up to the window opening. The sealant down the frame and alongside the sill
effectively goes over the top of this gap leaving a path for water to run
along the top edge of the sill just under the frame to the brick opening.
Is this the gap that you had to seal?


First of all, I should point out this is the only window I have ever
(re)fitted, so I am no expert. Its also a while since I did it, so my
memory might not be brilliant. However, from what I've read, what I
found is generally applicable to all PVC frames. As we've found, its a
bit difficult to explain in writing

The sill is fastened to the bottom of the frame with screws through the
bottom of the sill into the frame. There are mitred holes right through
the bottom of the frame that allow water that seeps into the frame past
the seals to drain out. The water drains out into the gap between the
frame and the top side of the sill, and then out to the front between
the bottom of the frame and the top of the sill. Thus unless the gaps at
the ends of the frame (where they butt up to the wall) have been sealed
*before* the frame and sill were installed, then potentially the water
can run out of these gaps. The sealant you see on the outside will not
fill these gaps.

Hope that's clearer. Maybe someone else can jump in here and confirm
this is generally the case.


--
Phil Hughes
  #9  
Old August 13th 05, 01:19 PM
Dave Plowman (News)
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Default

In article ,
TheScullster wrote:
How can water be getting in? I have examined the state of the newly
applied sealant and it all looks good and continuous. There is a
generous drip overhang on the outside sill. Under the sill and all round
the frame is rendered and painted - no obvious gaps.


Is this a window which sits flush with the outside wall? If so, it should
have flexible sealer between the window and walls on the outside.

I DIY fitted a Screwfix UPVC window which is flush to the outside wall.
and used the normal foam filler. I wanted to tidy up the brick edges with
mortar and used a temporary wood strip to provide clearance from the
frame. After removing the wood strip sealed between the window and the
wall with the proper sealer. Same top and bottom, although no mortar
needed there.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
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