I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.

I like to use a powered system but sometimes find that a passive motion
sander or even hand held sand paper to be best. Invest a few cents and make
one of each and try them out. See my web site under sanding system.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Mike:

I'd vote for an angle drill such as the Sioux or the identical one made
by them for Milwaukee.

I've used one for a long time. Then I had taken it to my warehouse and
rather than go get it, I reverted to my standard corded electric drill.
The angle drill is much easier to use.

The unpowered sanding devices can sometimes do the job a powered one
will but not always. I'd call it an add-on rather than an only-

Further, if you are really interested in trying unpowered sanding, it is
easy to make one to try it out. You really don't even need a bearing if
you don't happen to have one handy. A shaft will turn in a bearing made
of a dense hard wood with a little lithium grease or maybe even wd40.

Bill


wrote:
I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.

Bill Rubenstein wrote:
The unpowered sanding devices can sometimes do the job a powered one
will but not always.

Question I have is "can it do anything a powered tool can't".

Darrell, under what circumstances do you switch to the passive system?

I use a pad in a regular power drill, along with hand held abrasives,
and can't say I have ever found a problem. I can see how the cranked
designs like the Sioux machine may be ergonomically better, but I fail
to see the advantage of using a passive device.


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

Frankly -- I don't think it can. I built one some time ago just to see
how it worked. It is in a drawer somewhere -- way at the bottom.

Bill

Derek Andrews wrote:
Bill Rubenstein wrote:

The unpowered sanding devices can sometimes do the job a powered one
will but not always.


Question I have is "can it do anything a powered tool can't".

Darrell, under what circumstances do you switch to the passive system?

I use a pad in a regular power drill, along with hand held abrasives,
and can't say I have ever found a problem. I can see how the cranked
designs like the Sioux machine may be ergonomically better, but I fail
to see the advantage of using a passive device.

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
om...
Frankly -- I don't think it can. I built one some time ago just to see
how it worked. It is in a drawer somewhere -- way at the bottom.

I agree. That's a problem. It has to be "driven" by contact with the
piece. I tried it, and on broader pieces, it worked slower overall and at
greater cost in heat, and consequently paper, than power sanding. The more
depth versus breadth, the less effective they become.

I use my flex shaft and an induction-run fractional HP motor. All the
benefits of power sanding, and more maneuverability in relatively deeper
work with its long profile. Chief advantage is the ability to employ it
like a rotating scraper, supported on the toolrest, in scant contact with
the rotating piece. That helps conserve paper , and the ability to sand
proportionally greater across the concentric marks of the previous grade on
the first pass, followed by passes more against or with the rotation makes
fairly short work of the task, even though I'm not pressing.

One additional benefit which accrues is that it is easier to maintain a fair
surface on the work by supporting the handpiece on a rest, rather than the
surface being sanded. There is much less tendency to sand away the softer
portion of spalted woods, or to skid over the absolute end grain and sand
away the relatively softer face with reduced surface pressure. Fewer
"rogue" scratches, too, since the paper is allowed greater freedom to unload
the dust.

Derek
I switch to the passive system when I have to. That is not a great answer
but the honest one. If I can I power sand. When the reach is really awkward
I can generally get in there with a passive system. If I still can not get
to the spot then it is hand held sandpaper or sandpaper on a stick or
whatever else it takes to get the job done.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Derek
I switch to the passive system when I have to. That is not a great answer
but the honest one. If I can I power sand. When the reach is really awkward
I can generally get in there with a passive system. If I still can not get
to the spot then it is hand held sandpaper or sandpaper on a stick or
whatever else it takes to get the job done.

Thanks. So it really just a case of accessibility.

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

I find that the angle sander (Sioux) also provides better accessibility
and control than the traditional drill mounted sander.

Bill
Derek Andrews wrote:
Darrell Feltmate wrote:

Derek
I switch to the passive system when I have to. That is not a great answer
but the honest one. If I can I power sand. When the reach is really
awkward
I can generally get in there with a passive system. If I still can not
get
to the spot then it is hand held sandpaper or sandpaper on a stick or
whatever else it takes to get the job done.


Thanks. So it really just a case of accessibility.

skrev i melding
oups.com...
I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.


The useful part of the Sorby thing is the pad.
Buy that as a part, and make your own handle
from a piece of wood and a couple of ballbearings
with the same inner diameter as the diameter of the
axle of the pad.

The Sorby "thing" does not have a ballbearing, but needs
oil from time to time to function, and if you oil it just a little
too much, it spatters on the bowl, if you oil it too little,
it gets worn out.

I made mine two years ago, and I have changed the pad
once, the bearings are still good, and I use it a lot.

Bjarte

I use 2" foam-backed Velcro sanding discs chucked in my cordless drill.
It's an older 9.6 Volt Panasonic with a T-handle. I have considered an
angle drill, but I haven't had any problems getting into bowls with my
current drill.

Barry


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.

I think it is usually better to rotate the wood slower and move the
abrasive faster to prevent heat checks and reduce surface scratches. If
so (or not so), is there a minimal rpm the wood needs to activate a
passive sander? I realize that disc size, pressure, application, etc.
are also involved, but can you passively sand at very low speeds?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
I think it is usually better to rotate the wood slower and move the
abrasive faster to prevent heat checks and reduce surface scratches. If
so (or not so), is there a minimal rpm the wood needs to activate a
passive sander? I realize that disc size, pressure, application, etc.
are also involved, but can you passively sand at very low speeds?



Yep, but slower. It's a difference in rotation rates thing. Sander faster
than work, as the smaller "gear" in a drive.

Friction in the classic description increases with the load - mass of object
or pressure applied. If the objects are in motion, it's independent of
sliding speed. So the money play is not to press, which is why I like to
support my sander as if it were a lathe tool.

Not sure molecular levels are reached until the grit particles have been
subject to many divisions....

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:48:04 GMT, Bill Rubenstein wrote:

Mike:

I'd vote for an angle drill such as the Sioux or the identical one made
by them for Milwaukee.

I've used one for a long time. Then I had taken it to my warehouse and
rather than go get it, I reverted to my standard corded electric drill.
The angle drill is much easier to use.

The unpowered sanding devices can sometimes do the job a powered one
will but not always. I'd call it an add-on rather than an only-

Further, if you are really interested in trying unpowered sanding, it is
easy to make one to try it out. You really don't even need a bearing if
you don't happen to have one handy. A shaft will turn in a bearing made
of a dense hard wood with a little lithium grease or maybe even wd40.

Bill



Bill.. just a basic question that has been bugging me about the power sanding
thing.. not picking on you, and would like others to answer also:

What size is the typical bowl, et. that you sand?

I have a feeling that the larger the object, the more practical power sanding
is, but besides trying a few different sizes home made inertia sanders, I'm new
to anything but holding paper against the bowl and getting hot fingers *g*

I seem to be in the "mini turning" class here, as a large bowl so far is maybe 6
or 7" diameter and most of my stuff is much smaller..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
news
Mike:

I'd vote for an angle drill such as the Sioux or the identical one made by
them for Milwaukee.

I've used one for a long time. Then I had taken it to my warehouse and
rather than go get it, I reverted to my standard corded electric drill.
The angle drill is much easier to use.

The unpowered sanding devices can sometimes do the job a powered one will
but not always. I'd call it an add-on rather than an only-

Further, if you are really interested in trying unpowered sanding, it is
easy to make one to try it out. You really don't even need a bearing if
you don't happen to have one handy. A shaft will turn in a bearing made
of a dense hard wood with a little lithium grease or maybe even wd40.

Bill


wrote:
I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.

Hi Bill, do you have a url where I could see an angle drill.

I am in the UK & haven't heard of an angle drill so would be interested to
see what it looks like.

Cheers

mory.

Mac:

Good question...

I'm turning on a Stubby S750 so size is no object -- I guess that I turn
stuff bigger than you do. The piece I'm finishing up today is a hollow
form 7" tall and 4 1/2" wide. It is on the small side for me but I
found a very nice piece of box elder with nice color. Most of my stuff
is larger.

One of the advantages of power sanding over hand sanding on the lathe --
hand-held paper tends to cause scratches in one direction --
perpendicular to the axis of the lathe. Power sanding done right makes
the scratches more random.

Bill

mac davis wrote:
....snip


Bill.. just a basic question that has been bugging me about the power sanding
thing.. not picking on you, and would like others to answer also:

What size is the typical bowl, et. that you sand?

I have a feeling that the larger the object, the more practical power sanding
is, but besides trying a few different sizes home made inertia sanders, I'm new
to anything but holding paper against the bowl and getting hot fingers *g*

I seem to be in the "mini turning" class here, as a large bowl so far is maybe 6
or 7" diameter and most of my stuff is much smaller..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Here is a review of the drill:
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchi...mattsioux.html

Bill

mory wrote:
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message
news
Mike:

I'd vote for an angle drill such as the Sioux or the identical one made by
them for Milwaukee.

I've used one for a long time. Then I had taken it to my warehouse and
rather than go get it, I reverted to my standard corded electric drill.
The angle drill is much easier to use.

The unpowered sanding devices can sometimes do the job a powered one will
but not always. I'd call it an add-on rather than an only-

Further, if you are really interested in trying unpowered sanding, it is
easy to make one to try it out. You really don't even need a bearing if
you don't happen to have one handy. A shaft will turn in a bearing made
of a dense hard wood with a little lithium grease or maybe even wd40.

Bill


wrote:

I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.


Hi Bill, do you have a url where I could see an angle drill.

I am in the UK & haven't heard of an angle drill so would be interested to
see what it looks like.

Cheers

mory.

I am one guy that liked the Sioux angle drill but the *&*% thing kept
getting clogged with sawdust and trashing the bearings. After 2 sets of
bearings and a 3rd set required I chucked it in the trash and went back to
my clunky, but reliable, Makita angle drill. Not ergonomically designed but
this baby doesn't even burp. Now, this is just my experience. I know
others who love them. This is just my 2 cents worth for free......Ralph

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm about to invest in a sanding system, and am torn between getting
something that I can mount in a drill or the motorless Robert Sorby
thing that supposedly spins by itself when you touch it to the whirling
workpiece. It seems the Sorby would be better at getting into small or
steep-sided bowls, but I am a little suspicious of the kind of job it
does without a motor. I saw the Sorby thing in the Packard Woodworks
catalog. Does anyone have any experience/opinions/guidance on this? I
turn a little bit of everything, but have been moving more and more
toward bowls. Thanks.

In article ,
"Ralph J. Ramirez" wrote:

I am one guy that liked the Sioux angle drill but the *&*% thing kept
getting clogged with sawdust and trashing the bearings. After 2 sets of
bearings and a 3rd set required I chucked it in the trash and went back to
my clunky, but reliable, Makita angle drill. Not ergonomically designed but
this baby doesn't even burp. Now, this is just my experience. I know
others who love them. This is just my 2 cents worth for free......Ralph

Ralph, your comments about the Sioux drill echos what many others have
experienced as well. Just out of curiosity, are the bearings double
sealed units?

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

90% of the sanding I do is done with a regular drill. For the other 10% I
was thinking of getting an angle drill adapter to chuck on to a 6A 3/8
drill.
I wonder if this could do the job without going to an expensive dedicated
angle drill?

"Owen Lowe" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Ralph J. Ramirez" wrote:

I am one guy that liked the Sioux angle drill but the *&*% thing kept
getting clogged with sawdust and trashing the bearings. After 2 sets of
bearings and a 3rd set required I chucked it in the trash and went back
to
my clunky, but reliable, Makita angle drill. Not ergonomically designed
but
this baby doesn't even burp. Now, this is just my experience. I know
others who love them. This is just my 2 cents worth for free......Ralph

Ralph, your comments about the Sioux drill echos what many others have
experienced as well. Just out of curiosity, are the bearings double
sealed units?

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
90% of the sanding I do is done with a regular drill. For the other 10% I
was thinking of getting an angle drill adapter to chuck on to a 6A 3/8
drill.
I wonder if this could do the job without going to an expensive dedicated
angle drill?


Sure, rig a used washing machine motor to a flex shaft. Seems I recall you
had one available?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,130,43409
Or, just use your drill motor by clamping it in a hose clamp to hold it
steady and attach.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:58:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
90% of the sanding I do is done with a regular drill. For the other 10% I
was thinking of getting an angle drill adapter to chuck on to a 6A 3/8
drill.
I wonder if this could do the job without going to an expensive dedicated
angle drill?


Sure, rig a used washing machine motor to a flex shaft. Seems I recall you
had one available?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,130,43409
Or, just use your drill motor by clamping it in a hose clamp to hold it
steady and attach.

wow! I was going to look at flex shafts today, but that $70 price tag has me
rethinking...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:58:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...

90% of the sanding I do is done with a regular drill. For the other 10% I
was thinking of getting an angle drill adapter to chuck on to a 6A 3/8
drill.
I wonder if this could do the job without going to an expensive dedicated
angle drill?


Sure, rig a used washing machine motor to a flex shaft. Seems I recall you
had one available?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,130,43409
Or, just use your drill motor by clamping it in a hose clamp to hold it
steady and attach.


wow! I was going to look at flex shafts today, but that $70 price tag has me
rethinking...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


My wife got one of these (see link) King Rotary sets for abut $40 -- it
includes a flex shaft.

The issue is that the max insert size seems to be about 3/16 collet or a
1/8 inch tool shaft.

Not sure that info is useful, but maybe somebody is aware of adapters
for sander pads and drums that might make it useful.

http://kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=276&ID=2364


Will

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:58:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


Sure, rig a used washing machine motor to a flex shaft. Seems I recall
you
had one available?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,130,43409
Or, just use your drill motor by clamping it in a hose clamp to hold it
steady and attach.

wow! I was going to look at flex shafts today, but that $70 price tag has
me
rethinking...


Think about the currency. Follow the URL and change to USD. Fifty-Two any
better?

About a third the price of the drill, more easily maneuvered, capable of
being used as a rotary scraper by supporting the handle on the toolrest.

Oh yes, a slow, but useful carver for when the muse strikes.

In article ,
Owen Lowe wrote:

I am one guy that liked the Sioux angle drill but the *&*% thing kept
getting clogged with sawdust and trashing the bearings. After 2 sets of
bearings and a 3rd set required I chucked it in the trash and went back to
my clunky, but reliable, Makita angle drill. Not ergonomically designed but
this baby doesn't even burp. Now, this is just my experience. I know
others who love them. This is just my 2 cents worth for free......Ralph

Ralph, your comments about the Sioux drill echos what many others have
experienced as well. Just out of curiosity, are the bearings double
sealed units?

Was thinking about the Sioux drills and their bearing problems today
which led to a couple questions popping to the frontal lobe:

1) Do the Sioux drills last a reasonable life when not used for sanding?

2) Are the Milwaukie clones also susceptible to the bearing failure?

3) Is there any difference in bearing life with respect to the Sioux
models with higher speeds vs. the slower speeds?

4) What is it about the Sioux design that seems to lead to bearing
failure when other drills don't appear to have the frequency of failure
when used for sanding? Non-double sealed bearings? Insufficient cooling?
Cooling design that draws air from close to the chuck?

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

"Owen Lowe" wrote in message
news
Was thinking about the Sioux drills and their bearing problems today
which led to a couple questions popping to the frontal lobe:

1) Do the Sioux drills last a reasonable life when not used for sanding?

2) Are the Milwaukie clones also susceptible to the bearing failure?

3) Is there any difference in bearing life with respect to the Sioux
models with higher speeds vs. the slower speeds?

4) What is it about the Sioux design that seems to lead to bearing
failure when other drills don't appear to have the frequency of failure
when used for sanding? Non-double sealed bearings? Insufficient cooling?
Cooling design that draws air from close to the chuck?


They're almost unstoppable in uses for which they were designed. Can't ask
for a better drill in close quarters. Sioux and Milwaukee share the same
design and assembly floor, a design which draws cooling air and dust/grit
right up front, while your regular beast draws cooling air from behind.

You've got an intermittent duty motor in a continuous duty application. Not
the preferred circumstance. Then you add further insult to the bearings
through side-loading, something for which they were really not intended, as
well.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:45:18 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:

"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:58:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


Sure, rig a used washing machine motor to a flex shaft. Seems I recall
you
had one available?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,130,43409
Or, just use your drill motor by clamping it in a hose clamp to hold it
steady and attach.

wow! I was going to look at flex shafts today, but that $70 price tag has
me
rethinking...


Think about the currency. Follow the URL and change to USD. Fifty-Two any
better?

About a third the price of the drill, more easily maneuvered, capable of
being used as a rotary scraper by supporting the handle on the toolrest.

Oh yes, a slow, but useful carver for when the muse strikes.


yeah.. that's the justification, George.. carving..
My wife wants to get into carving designs on my bowls and goblets... she's never
done any carving (except some very elaborate pumpkins) and I'm thinking that any
accessories we buy for her should also be things that I could use for doing my
thing, in case she decides that she doesn't like carving..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

The Sioux angle drill is a drill and not a grinder, which is the most
common use that we turners put it too, well, sanding actually, but the
same idea. The major temptation for me is to apply more pressure, so
that it removes scratches and tool marks faster. This puts extra stress
on the drill, and doesn't make the sanding go faster IMOP, kind of like
palm sanders. I have both slow and high speed drills, and don't notice
that one wears out faster than the other, but less pressure definately
extends the time between bearing replacements. I use 3 inch discs 90%
of the time, and that adds pressure, but is much faster than the 2 inch
discs.I also have one of their pneumatic angle drills that I haven't
used that much, but need to experiment with. The older black drills
seem to go longer between bearing sets that the newer grey ones. I do
love the tool, as it saves me a lot of work.
robo hippy



















George wrote:
"Owen Lowe" wrote in message
news
Was thinking about the Sioux drills and their bearing problems
today
which led to a couple questions popping to the frontal lobe:

1) Do the Sioux drills last a reasonable life when not used for
sanding?

2) Are the Milwaukie clones also susceptible to the bearing
failure?

3) Is there any difference in bearing life with respect to the
Sioux
models with higher speeds vs. the slower speeds?

4) What is it about the Sioux design that seems to lead to bearing
failure when other drills don't appear to have the frequency of
failure
when used for sanding? Non-double sealed bearings? Insufficient
cooling?
Cooling design that draws air from close to the chuck?


They're almost unstoppable in uses for which they were designed.
Can't ask
for a better drill in close quarters. Sioux and Milwaukee share the
same
design and assembly floor, a design which draws cooling air and
dust/grit
right up front, while your regular beast draws cooling air from
behind.

You've got an intermittent duty motor in a continuous duty
application. Not
the preferred circumstance. Then you add further insult to the
bearings
through side-loading, something for which they were really not
intended, as
well.