A DIY & home improvement forum. DIYbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DIYbanter forum » Do - it - Yourself » Home Repair
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems.

2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 8th 08, 09:40 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default 2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes

Folks:

More a style question than a code question.

Do you feel it is preferable to pull the service conductors into the
panel
and run them right to the lugs, or cut them long and form them into
a loop?

The loops add a little more flexibility, and give you some extra wire
if somewhere down the road the end should corrode or burn, but at
the same time, they take up a lot of space in the box, especially if
you're using larger gauges.

What does everybody think?

Another question: when trimming boxes, I tend to measure 8" or
so along the cable jacket, then staple it at that point on the cable,
but closer to the box, leaving a standing loop. I feel this helps
relieve potential strains, and allows the cable to be pulled into the
box at some future time if more wire is needed, or the box needs
to be moved slightly. Does anybody else do this? What do you
think of this practice?

Cordially yours:
A P


Ads
  #2  
Old February 8th 08, 10:08 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,205
Default 2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes

On Feb 8, 3:40�pm, wrote:
Folks:

More a style question than a code question.

Do you feel it is preferable to pull the service conductors into the
panel
and run them right to the lugs, or cut them long and form them into
a loop?

The loops add a little more flexibility, and give you some extra wire
if somewhere down the road the end should corrode or burn, but at
the same time, they take up a lot of space in the box, especially if
you're using larger gauges.

What does everybody think?

Another question: when trimming boxes, I tend to measure 8" or
so along the cable jacket, then staple it at that point on the cable,
but closer to the box, leaving a standing loop. �I feel this helps
relieve potential strains, and allows the cable to be pulled into the
box at some future time if more wire is needed, or the box needs
to be moved slightly. Does anybody else do this? What do you
think of this practice?

Cordially yours:
A P


I try to always leave a little slack in anything new I install after a
lifetime of wishing others had left me a little extra..........

might look a little messy but when you need a extra inch.

i try to stuff the lack back up in walls whenever possible
  #3  
Old February 8th 08, 10:33 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default 2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes


wrote in message
...
Folks:

More a style question than a code question.

Do you feel it is preferable to pull the service conductors into the
panel
and run them right to the lugs, or cut them long and form them into
a loop?

The loops add a little more flexibility, and give you some extra wire
if somewhere down the road the end should corrode or burn, but at
the same time, they take up a lot of space in the box, especially if
you're using larger gauges.

What does everybody think?



I like the loops, but sometimes the larger wires are difficult to curl.
They are also good for expansion and contraction so there is no strain on
the lugs.



Another question: when trimming boxes, I tend to measure 8" or
so along the cable jacket, then staple it at that point on the cable,
but closer to the box, leaving a standing loop. I feel this helps
relieve potential strains, and allows the cable to be pulled into the
box at some future time if more wire is needed, or the box needs
to be moved slightly. Does anybody else do this? What do you
think of this practice?



I tend to leave some slack along the line in case the customer decides to
move an outlet or switch unfortunately the price of copper keeps me from
leaving big loops, but I have heard of one contractor in my area that does
it.

  #4  
Old February 9th 08, 01:16 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 664
Default 2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes

In article
,
wrote:

Do you feel it is preferable to pull the service conductors into
the panel and run them right to the lugs, or cut them long and
form them into a loop?


In virtually all of the work I have seen (done well) in a service panel, the
conductors run straight down the sides (parallel to the vertical side of the
panel) then make a tight 90-degree "turn" into the breaker lug. I have never
seen a telco-like "slack loop" where the conductor extends PAST the lug then
makes a 180-degree turn back up - then a 90 into the lug. To me, that would
be overkill.

In any ostensibly permanent installation there should be enough slack to
remake the connection at least once, perhaps twice. Any more slack wire than
that is wasted, would tend to crowd the enclosure and possibly become a rats'
nest if future work is performed in the box.

when trimming boxes, I tend to measure 8" or so along the
cable jacket, then staple it at that point on the cable,
but closer to the box, leaving a standing loop.


You leave a slack "loop" OUTSIDE the box? If yes, I disagree with the
practice. The romex should proceed straight and true into the box and, per
code, be secured outside the box and, where it enters the box, with a proper
clamp. All slack wire should be contained INSIDE the box. There should be
enough slack wire so that the wiring device extends COMPLETELY outside the box
to facilitate making its connections.

I feel this helps relieve potential strains, and allows the cable
to be pulled into the box at some future time if more wire is needed,
or the box needs to be moved slightly. Does anybody else do this?


I don't.

What do you think of this practice?


Not much.

Leaving slack cable inside a wall is a bad idea for several reasons: The
slack will interfere with insulation. It may be vulnerable to damage by
future attachments to the wall. It is also contrary to common installation
practice.

Accommodating for the POSSIBILITY of moving the box in the future SOUNDS good
but is impractical. I can't remember ever moving a box JUST ENOUGH so that
the slack you imply would accommodate the move. I have always had to replace
the run or splice on a new section inside the old box (blank cover plate or
just another duplex receptacle) and place the NEW box where needed.
--

JR
  #5  
Old February 9th 08, 01:48 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default 2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes

On Feb 8, 11:40*am, wrote:
Folks:

More a style question than a code question.

Do you feel it is preferable to pull the service conductors into the
panel
and run them right to the lugs, or cut them long and form them into
a loop?

The loops add a little more flexibility, and give you some extra wire
if somewhere down the road the end should corrode or burn, but at
the same time, they take up a lot of space in the box, especially if
you're using larger gauges.

What does everybody think?

Another question: when trimming boxes, I tend to measure 8" or
so along the cable jacket, then staple it at that point on the cable,
but closer to the box, leaving a standing loop. *I feel this helps
relieve potential strains, and allows the cable to be pulled into the
box at some future time if more wire is needed, or the box needs
to be moved slightly. Does anybody else do this? What do you
think of this practice?

Cordially yours:
A P


I don't leave loops in panels because there is a 40 per cent fill
limit in the side gutter spaces. If there is a need for extending the
conductors in the future which generally is very unlikely, crimp
splices can be applied to pig tails.
For boxes, the rule is 6 inches of free conductor is required measured
from where the conductor enters the box. Again, leaving excess slack
in the box can be a problem since there are code rules on box fill.
As a matter of fact there is a specific rule on slack introduced in
the 2005 NEC that requires that if the looped conductor is not less
than twice the free length required in 300.14 it counts as two
conductors when determining box fill. REF: cited below:

2005 NEC 314.16
(B) Box Fill Calculations. The volumes in paragraphs
314.16(B)(1) through (B)(5), as applicable, shall be added
together. No allowance shall be required for small fittings
such as locknuts and bushings.
(1) Conductor Fill. Each conductor that originates outside
the box and terminates or is spliced within the box shall be
counted once, and each conductor that passes through the
box without splice or termination shall be counted once. A
looped, unbroken conductor not less than twice the minimum
length required for free conductors in 300.14 shall be
counted twice. The conductor fill shall be calculated using
Table 314.16(B). A conductor, no part of which leaves the
box, shall not be counted.
Exception: An equipment grounding conductor or conductors
or not over four fixture wires smaller than 14 AWG, or
both, shall be permitted to be omitted from the calculations
where they enter a box from a domed luminaire (fixture) or
similar canopy and terminate within that box.
  #6  
Old February 9th 08, 10:20 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default 2 Electrical Questions: Loops in Service Panel, Slack at Boxes

On Feb 8, 7:16*pm, Jim Redelfs wrote:

Leaving slack cable inside a wall is a bad idea for several reasons: *The
slack will interfere with insulation. *It may be vulnerable to damage by
future attachments to the wall. *It is also contrary to common installation
practice.


JR:

I'm thinking mostly about exposed work here, although I also leave
this extra
when doing new work in a wall. Old work in a wall is always going to
have slack.

Jerry - That provision only applies to conductors passing through
without
splicing, as in "courtesy loops" left for the next guy. If you strip
and cut
the wire off 14" long and skin it at the midpoint
and end for attaching to 2 device screws, it wouldn't count as two.

A P
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical service panel door mismatch...how to fix? [email protected] Home Repair 30 March 6th 07 12:11 AM
ELECTRICAL SERVICE PANEL HUNG TODAY [email protected] Home Repair 17 November 20th 06 11:25 PM
Electrical Panel Upgrade questions marspinball Home Repair 8 July 18th 06 05:42 PM
Electrical sub-panel questions J.A. Michel Home Repair 10 September 24th 05 11:27 PM
Finishing Electrical Panel (Questions) Michael Roback Home Repair 6 January 25th 05 05:00 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.