Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
radiators)?
I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in

the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live

in a climate that's cold in the winter:

If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
expensive to run?

I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could

turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?

Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more

modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?

If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
it with?

I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would

cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you? I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.

Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?

Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
heat?

The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.

I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to

insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
pretty much exactly the same.

I know someone else who replaced their old boiler with a new efficiency

furnace, but he said there has been no appreciable change in the size
of his heat bills.

All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.


I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
Does anyone have any comments?

wrote:
Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
radiators)?
I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in

the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live

in a climate that's cold in the winter:

If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
expensive to run?

I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could

turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?

Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more

modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?

If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
it with?

I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would

cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you? I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.

Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?

Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
heat?

The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.

I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to

insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
pretty much exactly the same.

I know someone else who replaced their old boiler with a new efficiency

furnace, but he said there has been no appreciable change in the size
of his heat bills.

All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.


I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
Does anyone have any comments?




I have 2 story steam heat with radiators and yes, my bills are very
high here in NYC, which is high to begin with. Other than getting the
airvavles replaced with a dial that u can set which room to have less
heat, can't see any savings but mimimal. Most say to find openings
where cold air is getting in and weatherproof them. Gas, elect are all
sky high..there is no magic bullet...with the possible exception of
solar heat...you might look into that Good luck and thank Bush.

So you have not insulated because you think it wont help! There is your
loss. Steam can be 83% efficient, HW 96-99% units are available, it
would be cheaper to convert to HW than forced air which goes from
80-94.5% efficient, but if that is possible it would cost alot.You would
be at 83% with a new steam unit, you old unit may be unadjusted and to
large giving 50% efficiency. You need insulation, how much do you have
what type windows and what location

So you have not insulated because you think it wont help

I'm not saying that at all. I haven't decided what I will or won't do
at this point. I'm just wondering if there are other people out there
with similar experiences, and if someone has some advice to give along
the way I will happily listen. My high heat bills have never bothered
me before, I've just become interested this year because of rising
energy costs and concerns about shortages.

I knew some people who dropped $2000 on insulating their house and got
no return on their investment. If that happened to me, I'd be
irritated. Since I have the same type of heat they do, it makes me
hesitant.

I live in north central Indiana. The highest heat bill I've heard of
was from someone who paid $800 in December. I have all new energy
efficient windows, the old ones WERE very drafty but I used to cover
them with plastic. I haven't noticed any bill reduction with the new
windows, in fact the bill has gone up (but the gas company warned us
there was going to be a large rate increase). There is insulation in
the attic and around the pipes in the basement, but the house is old so
I don't doubt there isn't any in the walls.

My previous house had hot water baseboards and insulation in the walls
and ceilings, but here's what I did and what the results we

year 1: nothing - gritted teeth and bore the brunt of the full-force
west wind during upstate NY winter. 100,000 BTU/hr boiler struggled to
maintain the house at a balmy 60 degrees on windy days, despite a
thermostat setting of 68 during the day. House in question is a ranch
with an attached garage and living space above the garage: total
approximate living space = 1600 sf

year 2: during the summer, replaced 10 out of 12 windows with
argon-filled, low-e, double pane windows (two not replaced were already
double paned and special sizes). Also removed two layers of old
siding, replaced with Tyvek, 3/4" polyisocyanurate foam with foil
facings, and vinyl siding. The house still seemed slightly drafty and
the boiler seemed to struggle to reach 60-65 degrees F still on windy
days, though it wasn't as bad as the previous year. Gas bills were the
same as the previous winter - HOWEVER, gas prices went up that year, so
it would indicate that the windows and insulation and Tyvek had an
effect.

year 3: during the fall, blew in 12" of cellulose insulation on top of
the existing 4" of fiberglass batts. Again, gas prices went up, my gas
bill remained the same. The major difference this time was that the
house actually felt more comfortable and more consistently held the
desired temperature.

I have since sold the house and don't have any long-term experience on
how it feels now. If you can afford to insulate the walls, do it. If
you can add some to the attic, do it. If you can search out air leaks
in your house and seal them up, do it. Other than that, it sounds like
converting from steam to a newer, more efficient hot water system would
be best for your situation. Better yet, call around with some HVAC
contractors, have them take a look and quote you a price. Ask for
suggestions on alternative systems from them as well, since they would
be most familiar with what works in your area and what doesn't.

wrote:
Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
radiators)?
I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is
in
..

I suggest finding a good local contractor to take a close look at your
home and your current heating system. Then let them make some suggestions.
Hopefully they will consider insulation as # 1 on the list, assuming you are
weak in that area now. How well that works depends on your specific
situation.

I may suggest that if your heating bills don't go down much after
insulating, then the insulation is doing a good job since without the bills
would have greatly increased.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On 16 Jan 2006 12:43:16 -0800, wrote:


I live in north central Indiana. The highest heat bill I've heard of
was from someone who paid $800 in December. I have all new energy
efficient windows, the old ones WERE very drafty but I used to cover
them with plastic. I haven't noticed any bill reduction with the new
windows, in fact the bill has gone up (but the gas company warned us
there was going to be a large rate increase).

You should probably keep track of the amount of fuel you use, and not
the bill. Especially if you're going to want to know if you have
saved heat or fuel.

There is insulation in
the attic and around the pipes in the basement, but the house is old so
I don't doubt there isn't any in the walls.

Three negatives in a row! Are you a lawyer? (although they usually
have a reason for getting sucked into that, based on denials by
appellate courts etc.)

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

insulte first...

make sure the radiator air valves are working correctly,

When the heat comes on and the rads are cool, the valves need to be
open to let the air out of the rad and the steam in...then when the hot
steam gets to the valve, it needs to close to keep the steam from
escaping...

also try putting small fans to blow air through your radiators
effectivly increasing their size.

Mark

A blower door test apx 300 will show you how leaky your house is and
where to fix leaks, old houses can have 20x more air leaking than new
houses, You are likely zone 6 and need alot of insulation, optimal for
you area is R 50 - 60 attic. Has a pro checked the boiler out, you
should call the manufacturer , they will tell you how efficient that
boiler design was, then you can start to shop and compare. Old designs
hold alot of water and have no automatic damper , more water means more
gas waisted to heat to steam. Im northern Indiana and cut utilities in a
100 yr old house 75% by redoing everything, but insulation is a 1st I
went to R 100 attic everyone said it was overdone but it already settled
to maybe R 80, it is a 1800 sq ft house I paid 465 in 04 for gas for the
whole year. Research insulation and boilers, Energy Star is a good
place to start.

On 16 Jan 2006 16:10:27 -0800, "Mark" wrote:


insulte first...

make sure the radiator air valves are working correctly,

When the heat comes on and the rads are cool, the valves need to be
open to let the air out of the rad and the steam in...then when the hot
steam gets to the valve, it needs to close to keep the steam from
escaping...

I don't have steam heat anymore, but what I never understood was
whether painting the radiators made it better or worse.

Some I've seen were already painted white, and I think that makes it
worse. ??

But does painting it over with black make it better again?
Or is it just another layer of paint to slow down heat transfer some
more?

If one were to paint over a white-painted radiator, which is better,
black or metallic silver/aluminum color?

also try putting small fans to blow air through your radiators
effectivly increasing their size.

Mark


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

wrote in message
My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live

Talking to people here in New England, that seems reasonable for the house
you describe.



If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
expensive to run?

No more than other sources of heat. A Btu is a Btu no matter what fuel it
comes from. Steam is a very efficient way of delivering energy. Rhere may
be other issues, but the fact that it is steam is not the culprit.




I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could

turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?

It will help some, but heat will still travel to those rooms.



Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more

modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?

I just took a 7,000 foot area off the steam boiler and replaced it with a
high efficiency gas unit of 200,000 Btu. It is costing about $500 a month
to heat that area right now. Cost of conversion was $7000 for the boiler
installation, plus some wiring and a welded gas line that added $2000 more.


If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
it with?

Hot water, but I'd rather keep the steam. I like steam.


I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would

cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you?

Could easily cost that or more.

I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.

Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?

Insulation.


Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
heat?

One of my co-workers has an apartment and just heats hte first floor. Her
bil was $400+ last month.


The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.

What other changes have been made to the house?


I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to
insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
pretty much exactly the same.

That is pure bull****. Insulations save money. Lots of money. I've insulated
a few older houses and saw big drops in cost and big increases in comfort.

All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.

Makes no sense to me. While steam is not used much for residential these
days, it is far from outdated and is very efficient. That is why steam is
used in so many big buildings such as hospitals.


I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
Does anyone have any comments?

Don't just look at the dollars, look at the number of therms or cubic feet
of gas consumed. that is hte story. Insulate also. Don't ever think it
won't help. YOu are just ****ing money away if you don't have insulation.

When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the water to
change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat system can be very
inefficient because it usually keeps on giving heat long after the
thermostat is satisfied.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live

Talking to people here in New England, that seems reasonable for the house
you describe.



If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
expensive to run?

No more than other sources of heat. A Btu is a Btu no matter what fuel it
comes from. Steam is a very efficient way of delivering energy. Rhere may
be other issues, but the fact that it is steam is not the culprit.




I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could

turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?

It will help some, but heat will still travel to those rooms.



Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more

modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?

I just took a 7,000 foot area off the steam boiler and replaced it with a
high efficiency gas unit of 200,000 Btu. It is costing about $500 a month
to heat that area right now. Cost of conversion was $7000 for the boiler
installation, plus some wiring and a welded gas line that added $2000
more.


If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
it with?

Hot water, but I'd rather keep the steam. I like steam.


I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would

cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you?

Could easily cost that or more.

I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.

Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?

Insulation.


Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
heat?

One of my co-workers has an apartment and just heats hte first floor. Her
bil was $400+ last month.


The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.

What other changes have been made to the house?


I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to
insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
pretty much exactly the same.

That is pure bull****. Insulations save money. Lots of money. I've
insulated
a few older houses and saw big drops in cost and big increases in comfort.

All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.

Makes no sense to me. While steam is not used much for residential these
days, it is far from outdated and is very efficient. That is why steam is
used in so many big buildings such as hospitals.


I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
Does anyone have any comments?

Don't just look at the dollars, look at the number of therms or cubic feet
of gas consumed. that is hte story. Insulate also. Don't ever think it
won't help. YOu are just ****ing money away if you don't have insulation.

Bob wrote:
When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the
water to change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat
system can be very inefficient because it usually keeps on giving
heat long after the thermostat is satisfied.


But that heat (BTUs) is not wasted, it is still in the home.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who
live

Talking to people here in New England, that seems reasonable for the
house you describe.



If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has
been expensive to run?

No more than other sources of heat. A Btu is a Btu no matter what
fuel it comes from. Steam is a very efficient way of delivering
energy. Rhere may be other issues, but the fact that it is steam is
not the culprit.




I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I
could

turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?

It will help some, but heat will still travel to those rooms.



Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something
more

modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and
was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?

I just took a 7,000 foot area off the steam boiler and replaced it
with a high efficiency gas unit of 200,000 Btu. It is costing about
$500 a month to heat that area right now. Cost of conversion was
$7000 for the boiler installation, plus some wiring and a welded gas
line that added $2000 more.


If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend
replacing it with?

Hot water, but I'd rather keep the steam. I like steam.


I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it
would

cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you?

Could easily cost that or more.

I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.

Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?

Insulation.


Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running
steam heat?

One of my co-workers has an apartment and just heats hte first
floor. Her bil was $400+ last month.


The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the
same price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people
running forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.

What other changes have been made to the house?


I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of
money to insulate their house, with the end result that the
heating bills were pretty much exactly the same.

That is pure bull****. Insulations save money. Lots of money. I've
insulated a few older houses and saw big drops in cost and big
increases in comfort.

All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your
house.

Makes no sense to me. While steam is not used much for residential
these days, it is far from outdated and is very efficient. That is
why steam is used in so many big buildings such as hospitals.


I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now
to get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and
counting. Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of
natural gas. Does anyone have any comments?

Don't just look at the dollars, look at the number of therms or
cubic feet of gas consumed. that is hte story. Insulate also.
Don't ever think it won't help. YOu are just ****ing money away if
you don't have insulation.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Not true. If you set the thermostat at 70, and it overshoots every time, the
heat loss will be greater. The warmer it is on one side of a wall, the
faster the heat will travel through that wall, because the molecules are
bouncing around faster.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Bob wrote:
When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the
water to change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat
system can be very inefficient because it usually keeps on giving
heat long after the thermostat is satisfied.


But that heat (BTUs) is not wasted, it is still in the home.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who
live

Talking to people here in New England, that seems reasonable for the
house you describe.



If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has
been expensive to run?

No more than other sources of heat. A Btu is a Btu no matter what
fuel it comes from. Steam is a very efficient way of delivering
energy. Rhere may be other issues, but the fact that it is steam is
not the culprit.




I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I
could

turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?

It will help some, but heat will still travel to those rooms.



Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something
more

modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and
was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?

I just took a 7,000 foot area off the steam boiler and replaced it
with a high efficiency gas unit of 200,000 Btu. It is costing about
$500 a month to heat that area right now. Cost of conversion was
$7000 for the boiler installation, plus some wiring and a welded gas
line that added $2000 more.


If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend
replacing it with?

Hot water, but I'd rather keep the steam. I like steam.


I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it
would

cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you?

Could easily cost that or more.

I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.

Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?

Insulation.


Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running
steam heat?

One of my co-workers has an apartment and just heats hte first
floor. Her bil was $400+ last month.


The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the
same price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people
running forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.

What other changes have been made to the house?


I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of
money to insulate their house, with the end result that the
heating bills were pretty much exactly the same.

That is pure bull****. Insulations save money. Lots of money. I've
insulated a few older houses and saw big drops in cost and big
increases in comfort.

All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your
house.

Makes no sense to me. While steam is not used much for residential
these days, it is far from outdated and is very efficient. That is
why steam is used in so many big buildings such as hospitals.


I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now
to get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and
counting. Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of
natural gas. Does anyone have any comments?

Don't just look at the dollars, look at the number of therms or
cubic feet of gas consumed. that is hte story. Insulate also.
Don't ever think it won't help. YOu are just ****ing money away if
you don't have insulation.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Bob wrote:
Not true. If you set the thermostat at 70, and it overshoots every
time, the heat loss will be greater. The warmer it is on one side of
a wall, the faster the heat will travel through that wall, because
the molecules are bouncing around faster.

All very true to some extent, but in real life the loss I was talking
about is minimal. Note: I was not referring to a thermostat error.

"molecules are bouncing around faster" :-)


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Bob wrote:
When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the
water to change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat
system can be very inefficient because it usually keeps on giving
heat long after the thermostat is satisfied.


But that heat (BTUs) is not wasted, it is still in the home.

....

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Bob wrote:

When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the water to
change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat system can be very
inefficient because it usually keeps on giving heat long after the
thermostat is satisfied.

Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?

Nick

It's a scientific fact. Google "change of state".

wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the water
to
change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat system can be
very
inefficient because it usually keeps on giving heat long after the
thermostat is satisfied.

Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?

Nick

No bob steam does not overshoot temp every time, I own a 16 unit with
steam boiler, I know it doesnt overshoot, or my bill would to, single
zone is efficient, its all in the design, install, sizing, venting, and
proper maintenance.

You might be interested in the link below..they claim save heat 50%.

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catal...products_id=72

Bob wrote:
It's a scientific fact. Google "change of state".

wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

When the thermostat calls for heat, it takes a lot of BTUs for the
water to change state and become steam. A single zone steam heat
system can be very inefficient because it usually keeps on giving
heat long after the thermostat is satisfied.

Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?

Nick

I think the issue is: A single zone steam heat system can be very
inefficient because it usually keeps on giving heat long after the
thermostat is satisfied.

I don't think anyone is questioning the "it usually keeps on giving heat
long after the thermostat is satisfied." but rather the "very inefficient
because" part.





--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:21:53 -0500, "Bob" wrote:

Not true. If you set the thermostat at 70, and it overshoots every time, the
heat loss will be greater. The warmer it is on one side of a wall, the
faster the heat will travel through that wall, because the molecules are
bouncing around faster.

But if your house is too warm because your furnace keeps overshooting,
you generally don't set the heat to 70 in the first place. You set
it to 68, and let it go ahead and overshoot. Always assuming that
your thermostat isn't set up to anticipate the overshoot in the first
place.

--Goedjn

Bob wrote:

... If you set the thermostat at 70, and it overshoots every time, the
heat loss will be greater.

So set it for 68.

Nick

It would be more accurate to say it can increase your heating bill by 100%.

"Boothbay" wrote in message
ups.com...
You might be interested in the link below..they claim save heat 50%.

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catal...products_id=72

Do your own energy audit. Get a clamp on digital amp meter and measure
load drawn on each circuit , get a Kill-A-Watt meter apx 25$ and measure
everything, unless small things are new and Energy Star rated idle draw
can add 10-30 $ a month for things like TV radio etc, use switched
strips and turn things off when not in use. My old panasonic radio and
sony tv both cost me 7 $ a month to not use, I did not know it till I
got a Kill A Watt. Research insulation, and new apliances. Old 15 yr
refrigerators can cost 15-25 a month, I got a new sears 19,5 that costs
3.5 per month, then I recessed it into a foam enclosure reducing it to
2.5 a month. You must learn, Energy Star is a good place to start.
Compare electric to Ng or Propane per Btu, Electricity for most of the
US is still 50% more per Btu than Ng