I am fairly new to woodworking. I have completed three projects, a
bookshelf, some shelves and a birdhouse. Aside from the birdhouse, I
have primarily buit with Red Oak/Oak and have applied stain to complete
the project. SWMBO has asked that I build a bookshelf for my daughter
(7 yrs old). SWMBO would like to paint the bookshelf instead of
staining. I am assuming it is a sin to paint oak so I thought I would
buy a cheaper species of wood that will provide a smooth surface for
painting. Since I don't have a planer/joiner I have been purchasing
wood from the Home Depot.

What are your opinions on the type of wood I should build this project
with? I planned on building the carcus/shelves out of birch plywood,
and the face frame and top with Pine lumber. Is this a reasonable
plan? Any other suggestions on wood choices? Is birch/pine too soft
for a kid's bookcase?

Thanks

Clemey

Clemey wrote:
I am fairly new to woodworking. I have completed three projects, a
bookshelf, some shelves and a birdhouse. Aside from the birdhouse, I
have primarily buit with Red Oak/Oak and have applied stain to
complete the project. SWMBO has asked that I build a bookshelf for
my daughter (7 yrs old). SWMBO would like to paint the bookshelf
instead of staining. I am assuming it is a sin to paint oak so I
thought I would buy a cheaper species of wood that will provide a
smooth surface for painting. Since I don't have a planer/joiner I
have been purchasing wood from the Home Depot.

What are your opinions on the type of wood I should build this project
with? I planned on building the carcus/shelves out of birch plywood,
and the face frame and top with Pine lumber. Is this a reasonable
plan? Any other suggestions on wood choices?

Poplar. Shelves too.

Is birch/pine too soft
for a kid's bookcase?

Birch isn't soft

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Clemey" wrote in message
What are your opinions on the type of wood I should build this project
with? I planned on building the carcus/shelves out of birch plywood,
and the face frame and top with Pine lumber. Is this a reasonable
plan? Any other suggestions on wood choices? Is birch/pine too soft
for a kid's bookcase?

Thanks

Clemey

Pine will be just fine. HD sell some glued up wide stock that may even be
cheaper than pine boards if you need a wide shelf.

I forget where it is, but if you do a Google search for SAGULATOR you will
find a little program that will allow you to predict how much a shelf will
sag under weight.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:F1D_d.8889$Ue6.99@trndny04...
...
I forget where it is, but if you do a Google search for SAGULATOR you will
find a little program that will allow you to predict how much a shelf will
sag under weight.



http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

If you put 5000 lbs on a 30" x 12" x .5" l.d. MDF shelf, it deflects 70.33".
I never knew the stuff was so stretchy. :-P

BTW, I didn't see poplar listed.
--

Jerry

Jerry S. notes:

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/s=ADagulator.htm

If you put 5000 lbs on a 30" x 12" x .5" l.d. MDF shelf, it deflects
70.33".
I never knew the stuff was so stretchy. :-P


BTW, I didn't see poplar listed.

Right at the end, yellow poplar. I'd guess that aspen is roughly
similar, as is southern magnolia.

Clemey asks:
SWMBO would like to paint the bookshelf instead of
staining. I am assuming it is a sin to paint oak so I thought I would
buy a cheaper species of wood that will provide a smooth surface for
painting. Since I don't have a planer/joiner I have been purchasing
wood from the Home Depot.


What are your opinions on the type of wood I should build this project
with? I planned on building the carcus/shelves out of birch plywood,
and the face frame and top with Pine lumber. Is this a reasonable
plan? Any other suggestions on wood choices? Is birch/pine too soft
for a kid's bookcase?

Hardwoods are way too costly at HD and Lowe's so that's a good reason
to avoid painting them--they are usually significantly more costly than
pine in other places, too, so painting oak is a waste more than a sin.

Poplar works nicely for bookcases, but is expensive at big box stores.
I recall someone I know buying some of their glued up pine
boards--Lowe's or HD, I don't recall which--and liking the results.

Unless your kid is going to take a hammer to the shelves, pine is
plenty hard. Keep actual shelf width under 30" to 32" for nominal 1"
(4/4, actual 3/4") stock and you should be okay. That is, you can make
the bookcase as wide as you wish, but the ends of each shelf must be
supported at the above intervals or closer. I might prefer 28", even,
if the kid is a climber. And that brings up a point: make sure you
secure the bookshelf to the wall!

Thanks to all who replied. That helps a lot. I have been lurking for
about 6+ months and have been learning a lot. Thanks to all who post
good questions and for those who take the time to answer...

Clemey

I'd still go with the poplar (pay the $). Finish-quality pines dent if
you look at 'em the wrong way.

On 18 Mar 2005 07:58:08 -0800, "Clemey"
wrote:

What are your opinions on the type of wood I should build this project
with? I planned on building the carcus/shelves out of birch plywood,
and the face frame and top with Pine lumber. Is this a reasonable
plan?

Should work fine. You might price maple ply while you are pricing the
birch. We just did a house with painted woodwork and much to my
surprise, 3/4 maple vc was about 6 bucks a sheet cheaper than 3/4 vc
birch. It will paint fine.

Any other suggestions on wood choices? Is birch/pine too soft
for a kid's bookcase?


I agree with everyone that poplar might be preferable to pine as it's
a little harder. If you can get it in the sizes you need the price
might surprise you too. Here poplar is about the same price as clear
pine. A lesser grade of pine should save you money though.
Your mileage may vary.

Mike O.

Clemey wrote:
What are your opinions on the type of wood I should build this project
with? I planned on building the carcus/shelves out of birch plywood,
and the face frame and top with Pine lumber. Is this a reasonable
plan? Any other suggestions on wood choices? Is birch/pine too soft
for a kid's bookcase?

I think what needs to be clarified by what you mean by "too soft". Pine
dents easily and sags under weight fairly badly. Whether this is
acceptable or not depends -- of course -- on your requirements. Assuming
the kid uses the shelf and acts like most kids, a book case made of pine
will end up beaten and battered. If you are the kind of person who likes
a pristine house, this probably won't make you happy. If you like stuff
"lived in", it might not bother you at all. If you want it to be an
heirloom and keep looking new pine is a bad idea. If your going to toss
in in 2 years, it would be a shame to waste heirloom wood on it.

Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books). Otherwise, whatever
is the cheapest hardwood in you area is a good choice; for example,
around here popular often is more expensive then red oak, so it varies.

Paul Kierstead wrote:
Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books).

Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

Roy Smith wrote:

Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books).

Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

Concrete.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

In article , Silvan
wrote:

Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

Concrete.

Hah! Not bloody likely.

--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B,
sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:37:30 -0500, the inscrutable Silvan
spake:

Roy Smith wrote:

Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books).

Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

Concrete.

Not with dad's hammers within reach.


---
After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in? --Steven Wright
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Roy Smith wrote:

Paul Kierstead wrote:
Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books).

Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

Well, he'd have to work pretty hard at destroying one of the ironwoods.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

There is a built in book shelf in my grandson's bedroom. Before him two
other boys inhabited the room. They are pine. They have been repainted a
few times, but this is what I would recommend. They hold up just fine, pine
is cheap and the shelves are covered with books and toys - so you can't see
them anyway. Oh, by the way - the room has knotty pine walls - perfect for
young active boys compared to sheetrock. I remember when I was small, my
two older brothers would wrestle literally through the sheetrock!
Mark

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Roy Smith wrote:

Paul Kierstead wrote:
Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books).

Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material
which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

Well, he'd have to work pretty hard at destroying one of the ironwoods.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Roy Smith wrote:
Paul Kierstead wrote:

Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books).


Short of building the thing out of cast iron, is there any material which
will stand up to a 7 year old kid?

No and the cast iron is doubtful also. :-)
Solid oak is good, assume some dents. BTW pine
won't sag if you keep support within 36 inches/

"Paul Kierstead" wrote in message
...

Bottom line: Pine will work, pine is cheap, the end result will end up
dented and will sag a fair bit under load (though I am assuming a 7 yr
old doesn't have a large collection of heavy books). Otherwise, whatever
is the cheapest hardwood in you area is a good choice; for example,
around here popular often is more expensive then red oak, so it varies.

I was looking for a reason to use the sagulator. According to it, White Oak
and Eastern White Pine only differ by .04" in their sag over a 3 foot span
with an 8" board. Less than I thought the difference would be. Not that
I'm trying to make a case for using pine! I was just surprised at how close
the numbers actually came out.
--

-Mike-

3/4" Birch veneered plywood (aka Baltic Birch) or "Apple Ply" with
maple carcass (or face frame). Join the facef rame with biscuits. Dadao
out the plywood sides for the shelves.

I've built a lot of stuff for kids & if they're going to beat it up,
they will. Personally, I usually build book shelves out of pine if I'm
going to paint them. I like 1x10's as the 9 1/4" width will take most
books & often leaves some 'junk' room in front. Take a good look at
your kid's books - their kind can vary in size a lot more than most.

As for sagging, 30" or less is OK unsupported, also happens to fit in
with other furniture widths pretty well - kind of a standard width.
Much longer & it can look a little weird - your call, of course. You
can also pick up support from the backing or put vertical blocks in.
Vertical blocks the same width as the shelf are actually very nice to
have. Breaks up the long shelf & can allow for neater storage. Too
many isn't a good idea, though. You wind up with pigeon holes.

Sagging immediately with books isn't your main concern. It's what
happens after a few years of humid summers or when the kid is sick &
the humidfier gets set next to it - at least, that's my experience. We
had a cheap bookcase of particle board that got ruined when the
humidifier got kicked in the middle of the night & turned on it. The
edging & plastic veneer weren't enough to save it or some of the books.
I have some other particle board shelves that over the past 5 or 6
years have deflected a 1/4" or so over 28". Looks like crap, but they
were free - worth a more than I paid for them.

Jim