Once upon a time there were giants.

You may not believe this but it is surely true.

They went by sobriquet such as Leach, Olquin, Radovanic, Duke of Urls,
Bennett (including both B the Wise and B the Foolish), Uncle Jessie,
Self, Bitchslap Bob, TurdBarge Al - and continue in a litany of fine
madness.

They were the abstract geniuses of their time - but they are no more.

True, there are some smatterings of revelation from time to time - but
the good old days are gone.

The all consuming swamp of Lurkdom has consumed most of them.

Absolute disinterest has taken the rest.

And there was so much to be learned.

Hearken ye, my children, and punch some of those names into a Google
search - using the advanced search function, as Author's name, within
the Groups category, within the specific parameter of rec.woodworking.

You will soon see how far we have fallen.

There was a Dark Age once in Western History. A time of indolent
madness driven by the religiosity of madmen, leading to a stoppage of
real thought.

But there was also a, "rose fingered dawn", there was a time of
rebirth, regrouping, Renaissance.

As against the creeping Darkness of this Darkened Wreck, this age
consumed by Miller, Hinz and Clarke - which sounds all to much like
the bottom of a bad batting order - replace them in your thoughts with
the Murderer's Row of Radovanic, Leach and Olguin (who is batting
third here but whom I understand to be a damned fine cleanup hitter).

Look them up in Google. Look them up and say a coven's prayer, so as
to raise them up in your minds.

For, some can indeed be raised up - and some might visit you with
their wisdom.

There were giants once among us, strong and tall - I would see them
back again.





Thomas J. Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

In article , Tom Watson wrote:
Once upon a time there were giants.

Ya know, Tom, nobody's forcing you to read the OT posts...

I sure do miss Tom Gauldin's humor, though.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 01:18:12 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tom Watson wrote:
Once upon a time there were giants.

Ya know, Tom, nobody's forcing you to read the OT posts...

Well, we'll get to that in a moment.

I sure do miss Tom Gauldin's humor, though.

As do I. And I also miss your good sense.


(I think that we are getting back to it now)


Doug - you are one of the prime movers of this political horse****
that is being visited upon the Wreck.

I have tremendous respect for you when you speak about wooddorking,
but much less so when you turn off into the political lane.

For a brief period, in the months prior to the most recent
Presidential Election, I visited that slippery path of political
discourse - and I continue to regret it.

Where once I enjoyed the consanguinity of fellow wooddorkers, I found
myself to be amazed and occasionally disgusted by their political
views.

It was my fault. It is what is called a "category error" by
logicians.

I introduced a modality of enquiry into a woodworking forum which
truly belonged in another venue.

Upon realizing my error, I apologized, swore it off, and moved on.

Why haven't you?

Your argument that goes to others using filters or ignoring the
political diatribes does not go to the point.

The point is - this is not a forum for political bombast.

You are a smart man. You should be able to figure this out.

Your co-conspirators should also be able to figure it out.

Asking me to ignore or filter you is like asking me to wear a gas mask
in a bar, if I do not choose to smoke.

There are some bars that are interesting enough that i will choose to
be there, regardless of the smoke - until I begin to cough.

You, and your brethren, have made me begin to cough.






Thomas J. Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 01:18:12 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tom Watson
wrote:
Once upon a time there were giants.

Ya know, Tom, nobody's forcing you to read the OT posts...

Doug - you are one of the prime movers of this political horse****
that is being visited upon the Wreck.

snip

Asking me to ignore or filter you is like asking me to wear a gas mask
in a bar, if I do not choose to smoke.

I'd say it's more akin to knowing that there is a back room where smoking is
allowed, then going back there on purpose and complaining about the smoke.

There are some bars that are interesting enough that i will choose to
be there, regardless of the smoke - until I begin to cough.

You, and your brethren, have made me begin to cough.

I just did an informal and impromptu study of the last several handfulls of
threads posted to this group. Of the last 50-ish, I came up with 50 that
were related to woodworking (some loosely) and 6 that were unrelated to
woodworking. Ironically, 2 of the 6 that were unrelated were started by
you.

todd

In article , Todd Fatheree
wrote:

Of the last 50-ish, I came up with 50 that
were related to woodworking (some loosely) and 6 that were unrelated to
woodworking. Ironically, 2 of the 6 that were unrelated were started by
you.

The vast majority of threads in the last two months have been
woodworking related, on-topic threads.

I think that if Tom had nothing to complain about, he'd likely complain
about that...

--
"I'm a man, but I can change... If I have to... I guess." -- Red Green

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
tone.ca...
In article , Todd Fatheree
wrote:

Of the last 50-ish, I came up with 50 that
were related to woodworking (some loosely) and 6 that were unrelated to
woodworking. Ironically, 2 of the 6 that were unrelated were started by
you.

The vast majority of threads in the last two months have been
woodworking related, on-topic threads.

I think that if Tom had nothing to complain about, he'd likely complain
about that...


Possibly.

But I cut Tom a little more slack than most folks.

When he complains, he does it with such panache and style.

This is a more classy joint with him as a member.

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
tone.ca...
In article , Todd Fatheree
wrote:

Of the last 50-ish, I came up with 50 that
were related to woodworking (some loosely) and 6 that were unrelated to
woodworking. Ironically, 2 of the 6 that were unrelated were started by
you.

The vast majority of threads in the last two months have been
woodworking related, on-topic threads.

I think that if Tom had nothing to complain about, he'd likely complain
about that...

I haven't been using Usenet as long as some, but I've been using it for 20
years. Off-topic posts are not a new phenomenon, and anyone who thinks the
wreck is awash with them hasn't been around much.

todd

Todd Fatheree wrote:


I just did an informal and impromptu study of the last several handfull=
s of
threads posted to this group. Of the last 50-ish, I came up with 50 th=
at
were related to woodworking (some loosely) and 6 that were unrelated to=

woodworking. Ironically, 2 of the 6 that were unrelated were started b=
y
you.
=20
todd
=20

Regardless of that he just made a public confession as to the errors of=20
his way and his willingness to move on. That should be enough -- unless=20
we find him guilty of recidivism -- or worse -- he offers to moderate...

Tom is right. We should be discussing things like -- oh say -- the best=20
way to stain cherry -- not the best way to hang political leaders. And=20
please -- nothing more on acetone...

So -- to celebrate this "new spirit" I will do a comparative study of=20
all my stains on a nice piece of cherry and post the results on a.b.p.w=20
- so we have something pleasant to talk about...

ducks and runs

--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

In article ,
WillR wrote:

[brevitized]

Tom is right. We should be discussing things like -- oh say -- the best
way to stain cherry -- not the best way to hang political leaders. And
please -- nothing more on acetone...

Newsgroups are, if they're any good, somewhat like a neighbourhood pub.


Some patrons are here to refresh themselves.

Some are here to tell tall tales.

Some have a new (to them) joke to share.

Some talk about yesterday. (They don't make 'm like they used to)

Some talk about tomorrow. (One day, somebody is going to make a glue
dispenser that works)

Some just stroll in to take a whizz.

Some are just plain assholes looking for a fight.

Some sit in a corner and just want to be left-the-hell alone.

Some come in to meet up with a specific like-minded patron.

Some are here to discuss the day's events, either in their personal
lives, or on a world-wide scale.

Some patrons are cantankerous old farts.

Some patrons need to re-assert their own manliness by pushing other men
down so that they may look like they are 'better' or' winners', at least
in their own minds. ( A true winner's glory is elevated by the strength
of the contender who ended up in second place.) Anybody with half a
brain can beat up on a trollin' idiot.

The common interest, unlike the BikerBar down the street, or Plumber's
Pool Hall, up the road, in here, it's wooddorking. We try to help each
other. In my case, when I feel pretty sure I have a solution, I'll offer
it up. When I don't have a solution, why endanger somebody's life by
telling him, with certainty, to connect the blue wire to terminal 6?

I like it here, warts and all.

And to hell with politics and religion. There are pubs on the other side
of town that deal with those subjects...they're easy to spot..there's a
lot of blood on the floors.

0¿0

Rob

PS. I decided not to participate in the 100+-post 220 volt discussion
for two reasons: LRod was doing just fine by himself and why would I
confuse everybody with facts?
A two-pole induction motor, with no load, in North America will run at
3600 RPM not 3450 or 3500
A four-pole induction motor, with no load, in North America will run at
1800 RPM, not 1760 or 1745
Put a strobe on the shaft. Slippage doesn't occur till a load is put on.
When you take an amp-probe of a 2 HP Baldor(Quality) motor, with nothing
on the shaft, it can draw as little as 1 amp. When you add a load,
increasing it bit by bit (say..a clutch..or a sawblade in a piece of
wood), all that happens is that the current will increase to the point
where either the breaker blows or the motor bursts into flames. It is
the point at which the motor bursts into flames (preventable with bigger
gauge windings and better cooling) which tell you the rated HP. (Just
prior to the motor stalling there will be a reduction of RPM under
somewhat controlable conditions.
If your motor, under no load, say at 120 volts, draws 1.5 amp then, when
it puts out 2 HP it will draw 750x2/120= 12.5 amps PLUS 1.5 amp = 14
amps. Period. That will happen if the breaker is rated at 15 or 20 or 30
amps. (No semantics, please)
None of this works on universal (brushed) motors.

WillR wrote:
We should be discussing things like -- oh say -- the best
way to stain cherry

That's easy. You take the blood of the person wishing to stain the
cherry (five liters - litres, Jeff - is generally adequate), thin it
with 200 proof anhydrous denatured alcohol, mix it with a #1.5 cut of
your favorite shellac and apply with a pad lubed with mineral oil.

On a somewhat related note, I had the opportunity to examine close to
200 solid cherry side chairs while rehearsing in the sanctuary of The
Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, here in Los Angeles (that's
Spanish for "The Angels," Will). I noticed that, while the finish on
the cherry had a slight tint to it, there had been no attempt to stain
all those chairs to match. What a refreshing change from the muddy,
dull dreck that I generally encounter, posing as fine furniture. The
subtle variances in color were not unlike the variations of the trees
in the forest... as though it were a celebration of all the hues of
cherry.

It was an unexpected pleasure, and I marveled at its beauty for quite a
while; a cherry sanctuary.

O'Deen

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:31:52 -0600, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

snipparectomy


Of course, there have always been a few midgets wandering around, too.




Thomas J. Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:31:52 -0600, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

snipparectomy


Of course, there have always been a few midgets wandering around, too.

Don't forget about the bloviating blowhards.

todd

Todd Fatheree wrote:
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 01:18:12 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tom
Watson
wrote:
Once upon a time there were giants.

I have a solution. Whenever you feel the need to read r.w., go to
Google groups and do a search for r.w. posts from the wreck's golden
age. Read until you're content and stop wasting your time on the
current group of plebians.

Ya know, Tom, nobody's forcing you to read the OT posts...

Doug - you are one of the prime movers of this political horse****
that is being visited upon the Wreck.

Okay, you have a point there. But you're not that far behind him in
dishing out the political b.s. (btw, I mostly agree with your political
bent but it doesn't belong here any more than Doug's does).

snip

Asking me to ignore or filter you is like asking me to wear a gas
mask
in a bar, if I do not choose to smoke.

Not really. I (and you) can pass over posts we're not interested in
much easier than we can ignore a cloud of smoke.

I'd say it's more akin to knowing that there is a back room where
smoking is
allowed, then going back there on purpose and complaining about the
smoke.

Poor analogy. Your analogy would be correct if Tom went to the
hypothetical usenet group rec.woodworking.off-topic and complained
about off-topic posts. But I get your point nonetheless. Off-topic
posts are pervasive so complaining about them is sort of silly.

There are some bars that are interesting enough that i will choose
to
be there, regardless of the smoke - until I begin to cough.

You, and your brethren, have made me begin to cough.

I just did an informal and impromptu study of the last several
handfulls of
threads posted to this group. Of the last 50-ish, I came up with 50
that
were related to woodworking (some loosely) and 6 that were unrelated
to
woodworking. Ironically, 2 of the 6 that were unrelated were started
by
you.

We're largely in agreement here. The people who complain the loudest
about things that they find offensive are usually working pretty hard
to be offended.

Cheers,
Mike

On 18 Mar 2005 15:05:02 -0800, "Mike" wrote:


Okay, you have a point there. But you're not that far behind him in
dishing out the political b.s.

I think that you would have a difficult time finding any political
comments from me since about October of 2004.

You could look it up.



Thomas J. Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

In article , Tom Watson wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 01:18:12 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Tom Watson
wrote:
Once upon a time there were giants.

Ya know, Tom, nobody's forcing you to read the OT posts...

Well, we'll get to that in a moment.

I sure do miss Tom Gauldin's humor, though.

As do I. And I also miss your good sense.


(I think that we are getting back to it now)


Doug - you are one of the prime movers of this political horse****
that is being visited upon the Wreck.

I must take issue with you there. I have never *started* one of those threads.
But I do find it difficult to sit idly by, when fantasies and outright lies
are put forward as "facts".

I have tremendous respect for you when you speak about wooddorking,

Thanks; that's mutual, BTW.

but much less so when you turn off into the political lane.

Well, you can't expect to agree with everyone you know. I do find it a bit
odd, though, that you complained about several of us, by name, who post both
on- and off-topic, but didn't even mention others who almost *never* post
anything *except* in political threads.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

(Doug Miller) wrote in
om:

Well, you can't expect to agree with everyone you know. I do find it a
bit odd, though, that you complained about several of us, by name, who
post both on- and off-topic, but didn't even mention others who almost
*never* post anything *except* in political threads.


I'm not complaining, mind you, but the excellent filtering technologies
available (Thank you, sir) allow me to filter the unwanted politically
oriented diatribes pretty easily.

But I really don't want to plonk the folks who often have something
interesting to say, even when it's supposedly off-topic.

By the way, I've learned to do that in analog life, as well. When the
conversation turned to openly gay public school teachers, and how to
legislate regarding that activity, I quietly got up, went out to the shop,
and put on the hearing protection, and cranked up the big iron.

I can't solve all the problems in the world. Darned few, actually.

Patriarch

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , Tom Watson
wrote:
Once upon a time there were giants.

Ya know, Tom, nobody's forcing you to read the OT posts...

I sure do miss Tom Gauldin's humor, though.

Or Walt Akers.


I'm guessing Tom is complaining again about what he does.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
Once upon a time there were giants.

On the whole this is a pretty decent group. Much of the advice is
uninformed, but there is usually some wheat mixed in with the chaff.
Other groups are troubled by lunatics and are unusable. One I visit had to
go moderated to escape it. (no, it wasn't me...)
So, be grateful for what you have.