Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer. I've searched the wreck
archives and googled a bunch as well. I've narrowed down the field but
still have a need for opinions.

First, the jointer.
It seems that the creme-de-la-creme in the 6" field is the Powermatic
54A. Long, stout, cast iron beds and quality construction throughout.
Three knife cutter head and TEFC motor. However, the price tag is
quite high at $799. Next down the ladder is the Jet JJ-6CSX. Shorter
cast iron beds, three knife cutter head... Price $599. Further down
the ladder still is the Borg Special, Ridgid JP0610. Beds approx the
same length as the Jet, three knife cutter, price $350. I've come from
a background where the adage was, when in doubt look at the weight.
Heavy makes better. The Powermatic wins hands down. However the
Ridgid and the Jet are within 20% on weight. There also are some
complicating factors to this that I will get to in a minute...
Obviously the Powermatic is the first choice (if money and time was not
a concern, but it is). Is the benefit of the Powermatic worth saving
for a few extra months to get the Powermatic? For the lower two
choices, would I be crazy to consider the Borg Special? Or is the Jet
that much better quality?

Second the planer.
I have read many favorable reviews about the DeWalt 735. Three knife
cutter, robust build, quality results, dust collection ready. Priced
at $499. However, right now on Amazon, they are touting $100 off your
next purchase of Powermatic, Jet or Powermax when you purchase a
qualified product. If I go with one of the top two jointer choices, I
could apply the discount to the planer. Jet makes a 13 inch planer,
JWD-13DX and retails for $419. However, it has a 2 knife cutter head,
not dust collection ready. Is the three knife cutterhead on the DeWalt
worth ignoring this discount?

Comments, concerns, flames?

Thanks
Matt
Beginning workdorker extrodinaire

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer. I've searched the wreck
archives and googled a bunch as well. I've narrowed down the field but
still have a need for opinions.

First, the jointer.
It seems that the creme-de-la-creme in the 6" field is the Powermatic
54A. Long, stout, cast iron beds and quality construction throughout.
Three knife cutter head and TEFC motor. However, the price tag is
quite high at $799. Next down the ladder is the Jet JJ-6CSX. Shorter
cast iron beds, three knife cutter head... Price $599. Further down
the ladder still is the Borg Special, Ridgid JP0610. Beds approx the
same length as the Jet, three knife cutter, price $350. I've come from
a background where the adage was, when in doubt look at the weight.
Heavy makes better. The Powermatic wins hands down. However the
Ridgid and the Jet are within 20% on weight. There also are some
complicating factors to this that I will get to in a minute...
Obviously the Powermatic is the first choice (if money and time was not
a concern, but it is). Is the benefit of the Powermatic worth saving
for a few extra months to get the Powermatic? For the lower two
choices, would I be crazy to consider the Borg Special? Or is the Jet
that much better quality?

Second the planer.
I have read many favorable reviews about the DeWalt 735. Three knife
cutter, robust build, quality results, dust collection ready. Priced
at $499. However, right now on Amazon, they are touting $100 off your
next purchase of Powermatic, Jet or Powermax when you purchase a
qualified product. If I go with one of the top two jointer choices, I
could apply the discount to the planer. Jet makes a 13 inch planer,
JWD-13DX and retails for $419. However, it has a 2 knife cutter head,
not dust collection ready. Is the three knife cutterhead on the DeWalt
worth ignoring this discount?

Comments, concerns, flames?

Thanks
Matt
Beginning workdorker extrodinaire


I now have both a planer and a jointer. My fist purchase was the planer and
a little over a year later, a jointer.

I went with the DW735 13" planer because I felt it was well made, beefy and
had fairly good reviews. I have planed quite a lot of walnut and oak. I
like the disposable blades. When they first get dull you can flip them
over. I am now on the first side of my second set. I have never had a
problem with it, however, others have complained about sprocket problems.
Mine was a fairly early model, having received it late September, 2003.
Very little snipe, except when the rollers need cleaned or the knives got
dull.

I got a jointer just last Christmas. I went with the Grizzly G1182Z 6 x 47
and ordered it on sale prior to the price increases. It has gotten some use
and so far I am satisfied. I guess only time will tell. I went with price
on this since I really didn't want to shell out a lot of money, since I have
access to a DJ-30 (I also have access to a Delta 24" planer).

I'm not sure if this helps you at all.

Later,

--
Al Reid

Thanks for the reply. I have been leaning towards th DeWalt, but most
of the info I dug up was a little dated. SWMBO and I are looking at
new-to-us houses and some need updating in the kitchen. SWMBO wants
hardwood cabinets and I said that I could make them, cheaper / better
than the Borg special orders (plus end up with a couple more tools for
the shop).

I'll have to check the Grizzly out. I hadn't even considered them to
this point.

Matt

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the reply. I have been leaning towards th DeWalt, but most
of the info I dug up was a little dated. SWMBO and I are looking at
new-to-us houses and some need updating in the kitchen. SWMBO wants
hardwood cabinets and I said that I could make them, cheaper / better
than the Borg special orders (plus end up with a couple more tools for
the shop).

I'll have to check the Grizzly out. I hadn't even considered them to
this point.

Matt


I feel comfortable with Grizzly. I got the G0555 14" bandsaw w/riser kit
back in July 2003. I was initially a bit disappointed until I got some
feedback from the group on tuning up the saw and I bought a good quality
blade. From that point on I have been very happy with it. I home my luck
is as good with the jointer.

--

Al Reid

I've had a DeWalt DW735 for almost a year. Excellent machine. I've
planed a lots of quilted, birdseye, and fiddleback maple, walnut, alder,
various rosewoods, some figured koa, and some mahogany with excellent
results. I run it at the lower feed rate. That lower feed rate (192
cuts per inch) is the primary reason I chose this model, since I deal
with a lot of figured wood, and I've had zero problems with tear-out.
I'm still on the first set of edges on the first set of blades, but it's
about time to turn 'em around & use the second edge.

--Steve


Matt wrote:

Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer.

I went through this same process recently, but perhaps on a
tighter budget. I ended up buying the Delta 37-275X X5 jointer
and the 22-580 planer. Both of these were shipped for free,
and after rebates the total cost for the pair was under $700
from Amazon. I'd looked at the Rigid pair, but I really don't
like Home Depot and believe the Delta products are likely
superior. They were also cheaper, since no sales tax was
incurred.

Now, I must also admit that these are both still boxed in the
garage. I hope to assembe and test this weekend. One thing I
found interesting is that the Amazon prices change almost
daily...I had these in my shopping cart for a few weeks (with
some others) and one evening the price on the planer dropped
$20 for a few hours, then went back up. If one was planing to
buy from Amazon it might be worth setting up the Twocows price
monitor (or a similar service) to notify you when prices fall
below a set point.

-Kiwanda

I have the DW735 as well and am very satisfied with it. For the money,
it is a great machine. I was able to turn in some credit card points
for a $500 Home Depot gift card, which I used to buy the planer (and
which helped me clinch my decision to buy it). From another gift card I
had from Xmas, I bought the mobile base, the extension wings, and the
dust chute mechanism, all of which are great accessories. The mobile
base is solid, and helps if you have limited space. While I had minimal
snipe initially (with some practice), the extension wings (properly
positioned on a very slight angle towards the main table) have
essentially eliminated snipe, which is fairly amazing considering there
is no planer head lock. I don't have a bona fide dust collecting system
yet, so I bought the dust chute, which fits well around a 44 gallon
Rubbermaid Brute waste can quite well; I don't have any loose dust from
or clogging of the machine. The blades are not sharpenable, but are
reversible, and are indexed so there is no alignment necessary. One oft
heard complaint is the short life (and high replacement cost) of the
blades, but I've run several hundred (square) feet of oak, maple,
wenge, and bubinga and I'm still on the first side (though ready to
flip them). I also had occasion to speak with Dewalt technical support
to ask a few questions about the unit and they were extremely
knowledable and helpful (with very short wait times to answer the
phone). There was an issue with bad gear sprockets over a year ago,
which have since been resolved.

I am in the process of selecting a jointer, so I can't help you from
personal experience. I was going to buy the PM 54A, but decided to save
up a bit longer for an 8" jointer. I'm thinking about the DJ-20, but I
want to hear some feedback about the new PM PJ882 8" parallelogram way
jointer (a bit cheaper on Amazon.com). Grizzly has an 8" spiral cutting
head jointer G0543, which has had some recent positive reviews.

Hope this helps,
Stu



In article , Steve wrote:

I've had a DeWalt DW735 for almost a year. Excellent machine. I've
planed a lots of quilted, birdseye, and fiddleback maple, walnut, alder,
various rosewoods, some figured koa, and some mahogany with excellent
results. I run it at the lower feed rate. That lower feed rate (192
cuts per inch) is the primary reason I chose this model, since I deal
with a lot of figured wood, and I've had zero problems with tear-out.
I'm still on the first set of edges on the first set of blades, but it's
about time to turn 'em around & use the second edge.

--Steve


Matt wrote:

Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer.

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer. I've searched the wreck
archives and googled a bunch as well. I've narrowed down the field but
still have a need for opinions.

First, the jointer.

[snip]

I've no pertinent info on jointers for you

Second the planer.

I recently bought the Dewalt 735 and the optional dust collection
attachment. The planer has a blower built into the dust port, so you can
connect the attachment hose directly on and shoot the shavings into a
barrel. I believe this feature alone is worth the extra price over the
Delta. I've run about 100 bf of pine and about 20 bf of rough maple
including some 12" glued maple stock and have been very happy with the
results (about six 50 gallon barrels of shavings in all). The only problem
I've seen is that the feed rollers require frequent cleaning.

I might not have purchased the optional collection kit ($50) if I had
realized that the basic planer comes with an attachment to which you can
connect a 4" hose. Then again, I saved quite a few hours rigging something
up that probably wouldn't have worked as well.

Good luck,

sam of vt

I've never regretted getting the 54A. It's well made, has flat tables,
and a nearly flat fence (close enough to cause me no problems), and I
like the longish table length.

Dave

Matt wrote:

Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer. I've searched the wreck
archives and googled a bunch as well. I've narrowed down the field but
still have a need for opinions.

First, the jointer.
It seems that the creme-de-la-creme in the 6" field is the Powermatic
54A. Long, stout, cast iron beds and quality construction throughout.
Three knife cutter head and TEFC motor. However, the price tag is
quite high at $799. Next down the ladder is the Jet JJ-6CSX. Shorter
cast iron beds, three knife cutter head... Price $599. Further down
the ladder still is the Borg Special, Ridgid JP0610. Beds approx the
same length as the Jet, three knife cutter, price $350. I've come from
a background where the adage was, when in doubt look at the weight.
Heavy makes better. The Powermatic wins hands down. However the
Ridgid and the Jet are within 20% on weight. There also are some
complicating factors to this that I will get to in a minute...
Obviously the Powermatic is the first choice (if money and time was not
a concern, but it is). Is the benefit of the Powermatic worth saving
for a few extra months to get the Powermatic? For the lower two
choices, would I be crazy to consider the Borg Special? Or is the Jet
that much better quality?

Second the planer.
I have read many favorable reviews about the DeWalt 735. Three knife
cutter, robust build, quality results, dust collection ready. Priced
at $499. However, right now on Amazon, they are touting $100 off your
next purchase of Powermatic, Jet or Powermax when you purchase a
qualified product. If I go with one of the top two jointer choices, I
could apply the discount to the planer. Jet makes a 13 inch planer,
JWD-13DX and retails for $419. However, it has a 2 knife cutter head,
not dust collection ready. Is the three knife cutterhead on the DeWalt
worth ignoring this discount?

Comments, concerns, flames?

Thanks
Matt
Beginning workdorker extrodinaire

I've had the Ridgid jointer for a few years, and it's been a great
machine. Fit and finish are excellent, and it consistently produces
accurate results.

I don't think it's "down the ladder" from Jet at all. Most of these 6"
Taiwanese jointers come from the same manufacturer, and there isn't
really much difference between brands. The Jet has a welded, fully
enclosed base, while the Ridgid has a bolt-together stand. That's the
weight difference, and the Ridgeid takes a bit longer to assemble, but
that doesn't justify a 70% higher price to me.

As for the Powermatic, if you're seriously thinking about that kind of
money, look at 8" models.

That unit does NOT have a true spiral cutterhead.

Electric Stu wrote:
Grizzly has an 8" spiral cutting
head jointer G0543, which has had some recent positive reviews.

Hope this helps,
Stu

Funny Stu should mention the incline of the extension wings on the DW735. I
recently attended "lecture" on planers at a WWshow in VA and the speaker
suggested the inclination of the extension wings (towards the cutter heads)
on all brands of planers. Oddly enough, it has eliminated any snipe I had
with the DW735. Once corrected, the Dewalt unit seems to perform almost
perfectly. Since getting the planer, I have always connected it via a 4"
hose to a 2hp DC unit, so I've never had problems with chips clinging to the
feed rollers, but I suppose this could be a problem if one depends on the
planers internal fan to evacuate the chips.

As for the Jet 6" jointer, I bought a used one off of ebay a year ago for
$325 and it too works well. I was required to clean some surface rust off
the unpainted areas and get a second set of knives, but the units does
accurate face planing and jointing as well as any other machine I used. I
suspect that a jointer with a longer (and wider bed) would be even better,
but everyone has his or her budgetary limits.

In short, the DW735 and Jet jointer work well for me.


"Electric Stu" wrote in message
nk.net...
I have the DW735 as well and am very satisfied with it. For the money,
it is a great machine. I was able to turn in some credit card points
for a $500 Home Depot gift card, which I used to buy the planer (and
which helped me clinch my decision to buy it). From another gift card I
had from Xmas, I bought the mobile base, the extension wings, and the
dust chute mechanism, all of which are great accessories. The mobile
base is solid, and helps if you have limited space. While I had minimal
snipe initially (with some practice), the extension wings (properly
positioned on a very slight angle towards the main table) have
essentially eliminated snipe, which is fairly amazing considering there
is no planer head lock. I don't have a bona fide dust collecting system
yet, so I bought the dust chute, which fits well around a 44 gallon
Rubbermaid Brute waste can quite well; I don't have any loose dust from
or clogging of the machine. The blades are not sharpenable, but are
reversible, and are indexed so there is no alignment necessary. One oft
heard complaint is the short life (and high replacement cost) of the
blades, but I've run several hundred (square) feet of oak, maple,
wenge, and bubinga and I'm still on the first side (though ready to
flip them). I also had occasion to speak with Dewalt technical support
to ask a few questions about the unit and they were extremely
knowledable and helpful (with very short wait times to answer the
phone). There was an issue with bad gear sprockets over a year ago,
which have since been resolved.

I am in the process of selecting a jointer, so I can't help you from
personal experience. I was going to buy the PM 54A, but decided to save
up a bit longer for an 8" jointer. I'm thinking about the DJ-20, but I
want to hear some feedback about the new PM PJ882 8" parallelogram way
jointer (a bit cheaper on Amazon.com). Grizzly has an 8" spiral cutting
head jointer G0543, which has had some recent positive reviews.

Hope this helps,
Stu



In article , Steve wrote:

I've had a DeWalt DW735 for almost a year. Excellent machine. I've
planed a lots of quilted, birdseye, and fiddleback maple, walnut, alder,
various rosewoods, some figured koa, and some mahogany with excellent
results. I run it at the lower feed rate. That lower feed rate (192
cuts per inch) is the primary reason I chose this model, since I deal
with a lot of figured wood, and I've had zero problems with tear-out.
I'm still on the first set of edges on the first set of blades, but it's
about time to turn 'em around & use the second edge.

--Steve


Matt wrote:

Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer.

On 17 Mar 2005 13:32:11 -0800, "Matt" wrote:

Here goes, my first post...

I'm in the market for a jointer and a planer. I've searched the wreck
archives and googled a bunch as well. I've narrowed down the field but
still have a need for opinions.

I have used a 6 in Rockwell Jointer for almost 40 years
now....Honestly I have only wished a few times for an 8 in Jointer But
have wished for longer beds many times... That said I can honestly say
that I have never been defeated because of the width nor the bed
length on my Trusty Rockwell...

Yea I buy the powermatic today if I were in the market for a new
jointer (I'm not ) .. REASON.. the bed length .. Just have not
run into the need for an 8 inch jointer..

Jointers in general are darn simple machines...even the Tiawan
Factories should be able make flat tables and fences..(key word is
should)... I would check out shopfox, yorkcraft, and especially
Grizley


I am not a fan of Ridgid machines...period..!!!!
BUT I have stated more then a few times that I do like their Planer
almost purchased it over the De Walt but chicken out...

My Planer is a run of the mill De Walt single speed unit...Only 5-6
years old but has been well used during that time...
I am completely satisfied with it....Nothing really outstanding about
it except it works ... I generally take light passes and normally do
not run into any snipe that upsets me...I do see some snipe if I am
not careful.
I am completely satisfied with it...

Good luck...

Bob Griffiths

Hi Matt:

I picked up the Rigid 12" planer a couple of years ago. HD discounted
it heavily to make room for the newer one that comes with the dust
chute and stand included. I only paid $211 for it, so that pretty much
made the decision for me. I use it all the time, and I have been very
happy with it.

Regards,
John.

I thought the G0543 unit was a true spiral cutterhead. It has indexed,
individual 4-sided carbide blade inserts arranged in four
spirally-oriented rows. If this is not a "true" spiral machine, I would
appreciate if you could tell me what qualifies as one.

Thanks,
Stu


In article , David
wrote:

That unit does NOT have a true spiral cutterhead.

Electric Stu wrote:
Grizzly has an 8" spiral cutting
head jointer G0543, which has had some recent positive reviews.

Hope this helps,
Stu

Stu, I just got done reading about that unit; the author noted
(correctly) that all you have is a series of straight blades, arranged
in a spiral around the cutter head. The result is NOT going to be
identical to the cuts from a true spiral cutterhead.....

I hope you appreciate this; I spent the last 10 minutes searching though
my latest wood mags, before I found the right issue all by it's lonesome
in the bedroom. It's Wood, April/May. See page 104.

Dave

Electric Stu wrote:

I thought the G0543 unit was a true spiral cutterhead. It has indexed,
individual 4-sided carbide blade inserts arranged in four
spirally-oriented rows. If this is not a "true" spiral machine, I would
appreciate if you could tell me what qualifies as one.

Thanks,
Stu


In article , David
wrote:


That unit does NOT have a true spiral cutterhead.

Electric Stu wrote:
Grizzly has an 8" spiral cutting

head jointer G0543, which has had some recent positive reviews.

Hope this helps,
Stu

I hope you appreciate this; I spent the last 10 minutes searching though
my latest wood mags, before I found the right issue all by it's lonesome
in the bedroom. It's Wood, April/May. See page 104.

Thanks, Dave. I just received the issue yesterday and hadn't gotten a
chance to read it yet.

Stu

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:08:09 -0500, the inscrutable Electric Stu
spake:

I thought the G0543 unit was a true spiral cutterhead. It has indexed,
individual 4-sided carbide blade inserts arranged in four
spirally-oriented rows. If this is not a "true" spiral machine, I would
appreciate if you could tell me what qualifies as one.

Maybe he wants the cutters to look like the inside of a
pencil sharpener.


--

People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but
most of the time they'll pick themselves up and carry on.
--anon

No problemo, Stu.

Dave

Electric Stu wrote:
I hope you appreciate this; I spent the last 10 minutes searching though
my latest wood mags, before I found the right issue all by it's lonesome
in the bedroom. It's Wood, April/May. See page 104.


Thanks, Dave. I just received the issue yesterday and hadn't gotten a
chance to read it yet.

Stu

Are you always this clueless? There are true spiral cutterheads
available through other mfgrs. sigh.

Dave

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:08:09 -0500, the inscrutable Electric Stu
spake:


I thought the G0543 unit was a true spiral cutterhead. It has indexed,
individual 4-sided carbide blade inserts arranged in four
spirally-oriented rows. If this is not a "true" spiral machine, I would
appreciate if you could tell me what qualifies as one.


Maybe he wants the cutters to look like the inside of a
pencil sharpener.

oh, Google "oliver jointer". olivermachinery.net

Sometimes I wonder why I bother...

Dave

David wrote:

Are you always this clueless? There are true spiral cutterheads
available through other mfgrs. sigh.

Dave

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:08:09 -0500, the inscrutable Electric Stu
spake:


I thought the G0543 unit was a true spiral cutterhead. It has indexed,
individual 4-sided carbide blade inserts arranged in four
spirally-oriented rows. If this is not a "true" spiral machine, I would
appreciate if you could tell me what qualifies as one.



Maybe he wants the cutters to look like the inside of a
pencil sharpener.

I doubt it. A spiral is shaped like a cone. Helical cutterheads, yes. As for
Larry, usually.

"David" wrote in message
...
Are you always this clueless? There are true spiral cutterheads
available through other mfgrs. sigh.

Dave

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:08:09 -0500, the inscrutable Electric Stu
spake:


I thought the G0543 unit was a true spiral cutterhead. It has indexed,
individual 4-sided carbide blade inserts arranged in four
spirally-oriented rows. If this is not a "true" spiral machine, I would
appreciate if you could tell me what qualifies as one.


Maybe he wants the cutters to look like the inside of a
pencil sharpener.

"CW" wrote
I doubt it. A spiral is shaped like a cone.

A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.


Helical cutterheads, yes. As for
Larry, usually.

It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote in message
nk.net...
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

Why?

"CW" wrote in message
...
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote in message
nk.net...
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

Because if it were, it would be called a helical stair.

"Don" wrote in message
et...
Why?

"CW" wrote in message
...
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote in message
nk.net...
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

Well, that certainly explains *why* the word spiral is wrong, doesn't it?
LOL

"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Because if it were, it would be called a helical stair.

"Don" wrote in message
et...
Why?

"CW" wrote in message
...
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote in message
nk.net...
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

Because it is not a spiral. I just looked it up and, like a lot of words
that are commonly misused, the definition of spiral has been *******ized. In
my line of work, where geometric correctness is important, no one would ever
interchange the terms.

"Don" wrote in message
et...
Why?

"CW" wrote in message
...
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote in message
nk.net...
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

"Don" wrote
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

"CW" wrote
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote
Why?

"CW" wrote
Because it is not a spiral. I just looked it up and, like a lot of words
that are commonly misused, the definition of spiral has been *******ized.
In
my line of work, where geometric correctness is important, no one would
ever
interchange the terms.

From www.m-w.com is this entry for the NOUN spiral:

Main Entry: 2spiral
Function: noun
1 a : the path of a point in a plane moving around a central point while
continuously receding from or approaching it b : a three-dimensional curve
(as a helix) with one or more turns about an axis
2 : a single turn or coil in a spiral object
3 a : something having a spiral form b (1) : a spiral flight (2) : a kick or
pass in which a football rotates on its long axis while moving through the
air
4 : a continuously spreading and accelerating increase or decrease wage
spirals

Now please explain how #1a above does NOT describe a spiral stair.
Notice how the word *cone* is not mentioned at all.

Here's the www.m-w.com entry for helix:

Main Entry: he·lix
Pronunciation: 'hE-liks
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural he·li·ces /'he-l&-"sEz, 'hE-/; also he·lix·es
/'hE-lik-s&z/
Etymology: Latin, from Greek; akin to Greek eilyein to roll, wrap -- more at
VOLUBLE
1 : something spiral in form: as a : an ornamental volute b : a coil formed
by winding wire around a uniform tube
2 : the incurved rim of the external ear
3 : a curve traced on a cylinder or cone by the rotation of a point crossing
its right sections at a constant oblique angle; broadly :

I believe the term *spiral stair* is correct.

Don wrote:

....regarding "spiral" vs "helical"...

1 a : the path of a point in a plane moving around a central point while
continuously receding from or approaching it
....

Now please explain how #1a above does NOT describe a spiral stair.
Notice how the word *cone* is not mentioned at all.
....

From 1a (emphasis added)...
...around a central point while continuously receding from or
approaching it

"It" here refers to the central point (axis). The definition isn't all
that well written, but is basically correct. If the stair diameter
increases or decreases as the elevation changes, then it is a spiral--if
it doesn't (as most) it's a helix.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote
Don wrote:
...regarding "spiral" vs "helical"...

1 a : the path of a point in a plane moving around a central point while
continuously receding from or approaching it
...

Now please explain how #1a above does NOT describe a spiral stair.
Notice how the word *cone* is not mentioned at all.
...

From 1a (emphasis added)...
...around a central point while continuously receding from or
approaching it

"It" here refers to the central point (axis). The definition isn't all
that well written, but is basically correct. If the stair diameter
increases or decreases as the elevation changes, then it is a spiral--if
it doesn't (as most) it's a helix.

Your looking at the central point from a 2d perspective, from side to side.
The central point also receedes vertically (axis), as in the case of a
spiral stair.
The end point of a spiral stair is not in the exact same place as the start
point, it is some distance away.
I could be wrong in all of this.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 04:19:26 GMT, the inscrutable "Don"
spake:

"Don" wrote
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

"CW" wrote
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote
Why?

"CW" wrote
Because it is not a spiral. I just looked it up and, like a lot of words
that are commonly misused, the definition of spiral has been *******ized.
In
my line of work, where geometric correctness is important, no one would
ever
interchange the terms.

From www.m-w.com is this entry for the NOUN spiral:

Main Entry: 2spiral
Function: noun
1 a : the path of a point in a plane moving around a central point while
continuously receding from or approaching it

Now please explain how #1a above does NOT describe a spiral stair.
Notice how the word *cone* is not mentioned at all.

Well, "while continuously receding from or approaching it" describes a
cone perfectly, Don. CW is right. Couldn't they more correctly be
called "helical stairways"?


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 04:19:26 GMT, the inscrutable "Don"
spake:

"Don" wrote
A spiral stair is not shaped like a cone.

"CW" wrote
It's not named correctly either.

"Don" wrote
Why?

"CW" wrote
Because it is not a spiral. I just looked it up and, like a lot of words
that are commonly misused, the definition of spiral has been
*******ized.
In
my line of work, where geometric correctness is important, no one would
ever
interchange the terms.

From www.m-w.com is this entry for the NOUN spiral:

Main Entry: 2spiral
Function: noun
1 a : the path of a point in a plane moving around a central point while
continuously receding from or approaching it

Now please explain how #1a above does NOT describe a spiral stair.
Notice how the word *cone* is not mentioned at all.

Well, "while continuously receding from or approaching it" describes a
cone perfectly, Don.

Is a coil spring, like the ones in the suspension of a car, a spiral?

CW is right. Couldn't they more correctly be
called "helical stairways"?

Take a look at this, they illustrate the diff between spiral and helix
stairs.
Spiral stairs have a center structural member that supports one side of the
treads.
Helix stairs have no center support and rely on the structural integrity of
double stringers on either ends of the tread. Notice that the helix stair
will have 2 diameters, one to inside stringer the 2nd to the outside
stringer. Spiral stairs have only 1 diameter.
http://www.spiralstairsofamerica.com/gallery.html

Don wrote:

....
Spiral stairs have a center structural member that supports one side of the
treads.
Helix stairs have no center support and rely on the structural integrity of
double stringers on either ends of the tread. Notice that the helix stair
will have 2 diameters, one to inside stringer the 2nd to the outside
stringer. Spiral stairs have only 1 diameter.
http://www.spiralstairsofamerica.com/gallery.html

What's being argued here is geometric definition as opposed to common
usage...

The geometric definition of a helix is the straight line drawn on the
surface of a cylinder. The Oxford dictionary lists the first definition
(common usage) as "spiral". From a geometrical viewpoint, the rail of
what you defined as a spiral stair is, in fact, a helix.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:11:04 GMT, the inscrutable "Don"
spake:

Well, "while continuously receding from or approaching it" describes a
cone perfectly, Don.

Is a coil spring, like the ones in the suspension of a car, a spiral?

No, it's a coil, a helix.


CW is right. Couldn't they more correctly be
called "helical stairways"?

Take a look at this, they illustrate the diff between spiral and helix
stairs.
Spiral stairs have a center structural member that supports one side of the
treads.
Helix stairs have no center support and rely on the structural integrity of
double stringers on either ends of the tread. Notice that the helix stair
will have 2 diameters, one to inside stringer the 2nd to the outside
stringer. Spiral stairs have only 1 diameter.
http://www.spiralstairsofamerica.com/gallery.html

That's marketing terminology for you.


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Was that an African + http://www.diversify.com
or European Swallow? + Gourmet Web Applications
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