Hello,

We're having our floors redone and after reading a lot about this, have
decided to go with Moisture-cured polyurethane.

The contractor has objected to it any way he could and in the end it
has come down to him doing it provided that I shut off the gas to my
building (3 floors, 6 apartments total) because he said that during the
first 5 hours of application, the vapors are so flammable that if they
sneak out of the apartment and hit someone's oven pilot, for example,
it'll start a fire.

I have read about the toxicity of the vapors and the foul smell as I
scoured the internet looking for answers, but no one has mentioned any
safety concerns.

Is this product THIS dangerous? Shouldn't I then also warn my
neighbours not to smoke for those 5 hours? What about electrical sparks
inside light switches?

At this point it's very hard for me to draw the line between what's
reasonable and what the contractor is trying to use as obstacles to do
the job the way we'd like it to be done.

Thanks for any and all answers and apologies for posting this message
in another newsgroup.

Happy new year!

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame hazard. IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want. I would
find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

Leon wrote:

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame hazard. IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want. I
would find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one. I think he's exaggerating the
flammability but it is certainly flammable.

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame hazard.
IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want. I
would find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one. I think he's exaggerating the
flammability but it is certainly flammable.

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

I think he's talking isocyanate moisture-cured urethane.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame hazard.
IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want. I
would find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one. I think he's exaggerating the
flammability but it is certainly flammable.

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

I think he's talking isocyanate moisture-cured urethane.

Hi John,

There are 3 types, from what I've been able to understand through all
the research I've done online:

1. Water-based.
2. Oil-Based.
3. Moisture-cured.

It's possible that both the regular and moisture-cured poly's are both
oil-based, but what we want is definitely moisture-cured because it
doesn't turn yellow over time (or at least there's one type of it that
doesn't).

Through some of the reading I've been doing I came accross web sites
for some products that report flash-points as low as 80 deg.
Fahrenheit, but since I'm not sure whether those are actual products or
COMPONENTS of the actual products, I have to ask.

Thanks for all your help!!!


J. Clarke wrote:
Leon wrote:

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame
hazard. IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want.
I
would find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one. I think he's exaggerating
the
flammability but it is certainly flammable.

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Are you SURE about that?

David

J. Clarke wrote:



The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame hazard.
IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want. I
would find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one. I think he's exaggerating the
flammability but it is certainly flammable.

Really??

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

APPARENTLY.... LOL Thanks for pointing that out.

"George" george@least wrote in message

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

I think he's talking isocyanate moisture-cured urethane.


Is that like painting the floor with Gorilla Glue?

David wrote:

Are you SURE about that?

David

J. Clarke wrote:



The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one.

Yes. "Oil-based" is really a misnomer--"oilborne" or more precisely
solvent-borne would be more accurate terminology--the base is urethane in
either case.

Waterborne is clearly not moisture cured, otherwise the water in which it is
carried would cure it.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote:

Hi John,

There are 3 types, from what I've been able to understand through all
the research I've done online:

1. Water-based.
2. Oil-Based.
3. Moisture-cured.

It's possible that both the regular and moisture-cured poly's are both
oil-based, but what we want is definitely moisture-cured because it
doesn't turn yellow over time (or at least there's one type of it that
doesn't).

A non-waterborne single-part polyurethane finish that is not moisture-cured
would be a rarity. And specifying "moisture cured" does not mean that you
are going to get something that is non-yellowing--you'd do better to just
specify "non-yellowing".

Through some of the reading I've been doing I came accross web sites
for some products that report flash-points as low as 80 deg.
Fahrenheit, but since I'm not sure whether those are actual products or
COMPONENTS of the actual products, I have to ask.

Thanks for all your help!!!


J. Clarke wrote:
Leon wrote:

I could be wrong but the oil based is the one with the flame
hazard. IMHO
he is making up every excuse not to use the product that you want.
I
would find another person to do the work.
Anyway the can will tell you what you need to be cautious of.

The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one. I think he's exaggerating
the
flammability but it is certainly flammable.

I think you're confusing "moisture-cured" with "waterborne".

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

As a flooring contractor. I also will NOT use moisture cure.
Yes it is toxic and flammable.
You can got the same results, Non yellowing and durability with a high end
Waterborn poly
Try Street Shoe by Basic coatings. http://www.basiccoatings.com/
OR Traffic by Bona http://www.bonakemi.com/

Each gallon will run around $90, which will coat appx 500 Sq.Ft,
So do the math
If you have 2000 Sq.Ft and want three coats, it will run you $1080 just for the
poly.

And people ask why we charge so much!

Or just go the borg and get $20 poly, spend $240, and have it wear off.

If you force him to use a product he is not familiar with, the results will
reflect this.

wrote:
Hello,

We're having our floors redone and after reading a lot about this, have
decided to go with Moisture-cured polyurethane.

The contractor has objected to it any way he could and in the end it
has come down to him doing it provided that I shut off the gas to my
building (3 floors, 6 apartments total) because he said that during the
first 5 hours of application, the vapors are so flammable that if they
sneak out of the apartment and hit someone's oven pilot, for example,
it'll start a fire.

I have read about the toxicity of the vapors and the foul smell as I
scoured the internet looking for answers, but no one has mentioned any
safety concerns.

Is this product THIS dangerous? Shouldn't I then also warn my
neighbours not to smoke for those 5 hours? What about electrical sparks
inside light switches?

At this point it's very hard for me to draw the line between what's
reasonable and what the contractor is trying to use as obstacles to do
the job the way we'd like it to be done.

Thanks for any and all answers and apologies for posting this message
in another newsgroup.

Happy new year!

I'm with you now, J.

David

J. Clarke wrote:

David wrote:


Are you SURE about that?

David

J. Clarke wrote:



The moisture-cured _is_ the oil based one.


Yes. "Oil-based" is really a misnomer--"oilborne" or more precisely
solvent-borne would be more accurate terminology--the base is urethane in
either case.

Waterborne is clearly not moisture cured, otherwise the water in which it is
carried would cure it.

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 05:37:26 -0600, wrote:

As a flooring contractor. I also will NOT use moisture cure.
Yes it is toxic and flammable.
You can got the same results, Non yellowing and durability with a high end
Waterborn poly
Try Street Shoe by Basic coatings. http://www.basiccoatings.com/
OR Traffic by Bona http://www.bonakemi.com/

Each gallon will run around $90, which will coat appx 500 Sq.Ft,
So do the math
If you have 2000 Sq.Ft and want three coats, it will run you $1080 just for the
poly.

With that stuff do you recommend 3 coats or 2? -- Igor

Hi,

We had oil-based finish when we moved in and we loved the
high-glossiness of the finish.

We then went to water-based, and even though at first we were happy
with it, we have come to realize that we definitely like our wood
floors as glossy as possible.

From what we've learnt, Water-based finishes aren't as glossy as
oil-based, however, oil-based finishes turn yellow over time. Up to
this point it was a matter of deciding between a
not-so-glossy-not-yellowing finish and a
very-glossy-but-yellowing-finish.

After doing some research, we came accross moisture-cured, which seems
to combine the best of the two worlds we like: very-glossy and
non-yellowing.

I know I'm a very demanding customer, but it is my philosophy that
price is the one thing you don't argue about with a contractor. If
price is a consideration (and sometimes it might be, even for me), I
will work WITH the contractor looking for options that might make the
job less expensive, but will NEVER EVER ask him to charge me less for
his labor. I respect every contractor's time and that time's value as
much as I want my own respected by my own clients.

One thing that is very important with contractors is that they're as
happy providing the service as the client is getting is. An unhappy
contractor is like a curse... everything goes downhill after that.

I am trusting that my contractor is professional enough to just say NO
if that's what he really wants to do, so, in effect, I'm taking back
what I said about his trying to put obstacles in the project. He had
one objection and we have managed to clear that obstacle. I'm sure he's
also aware that a botched job is definitely not in his best interest;
he comes very highly recommended and they did do our floors for us once
before (water based) and were very happy with the work.

So far, the maple floor has been laid down and his carpenter did a
really GREAT job (my opinion) and he fixed a few details in our
existing floor in another part of the house in a way that surpassed my
expectations.

So, going back to the dilemma, we decided to go with the moisture-cured
because we want the very-glossy finish that won't yellow over time.
Regarding the durability, we don't wear shoes in the house, so our
floors are always in excellent shape.

Please let me know if there's anything else that I should be aware of.

Thank you and everybody that's pitched-in into this discussion for all
your input!!!!


wrote:
As a flooring contractor. I also will NOT use moisture cure.
Yes it is toxic and flammable.
You can got the same results, Non yellowing and durability with a
high end
Waterborn poly
Try Street Shoe by Basic coatings. http://www.basiccoatings.com/
OR Traffic by Bona http://www.bonakemi.com/

Each gallon will run around $90, which will coat appx 500 Sq.Ft,
So do the math
If you have 2000 Sq.Ft and want three coats, it will run you $1080
just for the
poly.

And people ask why we charge so much!

Or just go the borg and get $20 poly, spend $240, and have it wear
off.

If you force him to use a product he is not familiar with, the
results will
reflect this.

Do you require that all guests remove their shoes also?

David

wrote:


So, going back to the dilemma, we decided to go with the moisture-cured
because we want the very-glossy finish that won't yellow over time.
Regarding the durability, we don't wear shoes in the house, so our
floors are always in excellent shape.