I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the rails to
the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I bought the new issue of Fine WoodDorking and I'm still not sure what to
do. I am going to use through mortise and tenon joinery for the head/foot
rail to post joint. The article states that mortised brackets can loosen up
over time and they are best used on "occassionaly used beds". This was the
method I was going to use.

My question is: Can I still use through tenon joinery and bed bolts? The
two will intersect each other in the post. Thats is, the bed bolt will need
to be driven through the post and tenon. I would like to avoid using
haunched multiple tenons.

stoutman wrote:
I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the
rails to the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I bought the new issue of Fine WoodDorking and I'm still not sure
what to do. I am going to use through mortise and tenon joinery for
the head/foot rail to post joint. The article states that mortised
brackets can loosen up over time and they are best used on
"occassionaly used beds". This was the method I was going to use.

My question is: Can I still use through tenon joinery and bed bolts?
The two will intersect each other in the post. Thats is, the bed
bolt will need to be driven through the post and tenon. I would
like to avoid using haunched multiple tenons.

As an aside to your question (rather than an answer) there isn't a bed I
can think of that we haven't taken apart and moved a few, several, or many
times. Since this is a child's bed and might be moved around, why not use
the kind of brackets that are most easily taken apart and put back together
again?
Josie

I think your referring to mortised bed brackets. In the newest issue of
Fine Woodworking they state that bed brackets loosen up over time easily and
should be used for "occassional use" beds only. I have never used them
before and I was planning on using them here until I read the article. I
want this bed to 'last forever' if possible


"firstjois" wrote in message
...
stoutman wrote:
I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the
rails to the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I bought the new issue of Fine WoodDorking and I'm still not sure
what to do. I am going to use through mortise and tenon joinery for
the head/foot rail to post joint. The article states that mortised
brackets can loosen up over time and they are best used on
"occassionaly used beds". This was the method I was going to use.

My question is: Can I still use through tenon joinery and bed bolts?
The two will intersect each other in the post. Thats is, the bed
bolt will need to be driven through the post and tenon. I would
like to avoid using haunched multiple tenons.

As an aside to your question (rather than an answer) there isn't a bed I
can think of that we haven't taken apart and moved a few, several, or many
times. Since this is a child's bed and might be moved around, why not use
the kind of brackets that are most easily taken apart and put back
together
again?
Josie

I made a pencil post bed out of cherry many years ago. The posts were
mortised, and I had made tenons on the bed rails. I inserted bed bolts
into the ends of the tenons and cut a hole in the post for the other
end of the bolts. I then cut a recess for the nuts & washers. Then,
covered the holes with brass bed post hole covers, and it's worked like
a charm. It's been taken apart and put back together more times than I
care to remember. I believe I found an article in Fine Woodworking
sometime in the early '80's that described how to do it.

I made a pencil post bed out of cherry many years ago. The posts were
mortised, and I had made tenons on the bed rails. I inserted bed bolts
into the ends of the tenons and cut a hole in the post for the other
end of the bolts. I then cut a recess for the nuts & washers. Then,
covered the holes with brass bed post hole covers, and it's worked like
a charm. It's been taken apart and put back together more times than I
care to remember. I believe I found an article in Fine Woodworking
sometime in the early '80's that described how to do it.

I read that article, and I was very surprised to see FW say that about
the mortised brackets. I built my daughter's bed 6 years ago using
these brackets. It's built very "heavy" out of hard maple and weighs a
ton. At the time I built it, I read every book and article I could
get my hands on about bed construction, including at least a couple
books published by Taunton Press (publisher of FW?) and articles that
had appeared in older FWs, and all the things I had read which had
included these brackets had never said anything about any problem with
them loosening or that they were only suitable for "occasionally used"
beds. These brackets are made in two different lengths (I forget what
the lengths are). Not every catalogue I consulted carried both lengths,
but I got the longer length, which has one or two more "hooks" than the
shorter one. When you fit these babies into tight mortises and screw
them down, and then hook 'em together, there ain't no way that thing is
coming apart. My daughter has used the bed for six years. Admittedly
she doesn't weigh very much, but she and many of her friends have sat
and stood and jumped on it for all these years, without the slightest
hint of wobbliness; it's as solid as the day it was built, which is
very solid, and I'm confident it will remain so. I was pretty paranoid
at the time about the possibility of kids playing under the bed and it
collapsing on one of them, so I subjecte the built bed to lots of
stomping, pushing, and worst-case-scenario abuse before I put it into
service. I was satisfied that it was at least as solid, probably more
so, than any of the other commercially made beds in the house. The
design is such that the more force you apply to these brackets, the
"tighter" the bracket locks together. In fact, it would not be that
easy to separate the pieces if you were purposely trying to do so.

I used them because this was a modern design and I didn't care for the
look of bed bolts. This was a cleaner design to my eye, with no
visible hardware. I did follow one piece of advice which appeared in
several articles when installing the part of the bracket which is
fitted into the end of the bed rail. Since this requires screwing into
end grain, I drilled a hole from the bottom edge of the end rail, near
the end where the bracket was being mortised, to accept a hardwood
dowel. That way, the big, fat, long screws I used to screw the bracket
into the end of the bed rail is biting into cross-grain (if that's the
right term) hardwood rather than endgrain. The dowel is not visible
since it's drilled from the lower edge. Believe me, these are never
coming apart.

I suppose if you were moving the bed alot by pushing it from the ends
(especially over carpet or some other surface with more friction), that
might put more stress on these brackets. But even then I doubt you'd
have a problem, and most people don't move beds in this fashion very
often. Certainly I've moved this bed across a hardwood floor a few
times in six years, and detected absolutely no movement of the joint.

I guess bed bolts are ultimately the safest, and the nice thing about
them is that they'd fail slowly with plenty of warning. But I really
don't think you'd have to worry about these brackets.

Hope this helps.

stoutman wrote:
I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the
rails to
the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I bought the new issue of Fine WoodDorking and I'm still not sure
what to
do. I am going to use through mortise and tenon joinery for the
head/foot
rail to post joint. The article states that mortised brackets can
loosen up
over time and they are best used on "occassionaly used beds". This
was the
method I was going to use.

My question is: Can I still use through tenon joinery and bed bolts?
The
two will intersect each other in the post. Thats is, the bed bolt
will need
to be driven through the post and tenon. I would like to avoid using
haunched multiple tenons.

Thanks! Very helpful. I think you swayed me back to the brackets. I
really didn't want to mess with bed bolts for aesthetic and construction
reasons.

Thanks again.



wrote in message
oups.com...
I read that article, and I was very surprised to see FW say that about
the mortised brackets. I built my daughter's bed 6 years ago using
these brackets. It's built very "heavy" out of hard maple and weighs a
ton. At the time I built it, I read every book and article I could
get my hands on about bed construction, including at least a couple
books published by Taunton Press (publisher of FW?) and articles that
had appeared in older FWs, and all the things I had read which had
included these brackets had never said anything about any problem with
them loosening or that they were only suitable for "occasionally used"
beds. These brackets are made in two different lengths (I forget what
the lengths are). Not every catalogue I consulted carried both lengths,
but I got the longer length, which has one or two more "hooks" than the
shorter one. When you fit these babies into tight mortises and screw
them down, and then hook 'em together, there ain't no way that thing is
coming apart. My daughter has used the bed for six years. Admittedly
she doesn't weigh very much, but she and many of her friends have sat
and stood and jumped on it for all these years, without the slightest
hint of wobbliness; it's as solid as the day it was built, which is
very solid, and I'm confident it will remain so. I was pretty paranoid
at the time about the possibility of kids playing under the bed and it
collapsing on one of them, so I subjecte the built bed to lots of
stomping, pushing, and worst-case-scenario abuse before I put it into
service. I was satisfied that it was at least as solid, probably more
so, than any of the other commercially made beds in the house. The
design is such that the more force you apply to these brackets, the
"tighter" the bracket locks together. In fact, it would not be that
easy to separate the pieces if you were purposely trying to do so.

I used them because this was a modern design and I didn't care for the
look of bed bolts. This was a cleaner design to my eye, with no
visible hardware. I did follow one piece of advice which appeared in
several articles when installing the part of the bracket which is
fitted into the end of the bed rail. Since this requires screwing into
end grain, I drilled a hole from the bottom edge of the end rail, near
the end where the bracket was being mortised, to accept a hardwood
dowel. That way, the big, fat, long screws I used to screw the bracket
into the end of the bed rail is biting into cross-grain (if that's the
right term) hardwood rather than endgrain. The dowel is not visible
since it's drilled from the lower edge. Believe me, these are never
coming apart.

I suppose if you were moving the bed alot by pushing it from the ends
(especially over carpet or some other surface with more friction), that
might put more stress on these brackets. But even then I doubt you'd
have a problem, and most people don't move beds in this fashion very
often. Certainly I've moved this bed across a hardwood floor a few
times in six years, and detected absolutely no movement of the joint.

I guess bed bolts are ultimately the safest, and the nice thing about
them is that they'd fail slowly with plenty of warning. But I really
don't think you'd have to worry about these brackets.

Hope this helps.

stoutman wrote:
I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the
rails to
the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I bought the new issue of Fine WoodDorking and I'm still not sure
what to
do. I am going to use through mortise and tenon joinery for the
head/foot
rail to post joint. The article states that mortised brackets can
loosen up
over time and they are best used on "occassionaly used beds". This
was the
method I was going to use.

My question is: Can I still use through tenon joinery and bed bolts?
The
two will intersect each other in the post. Thats is, the bed bolt
will need
to be driven through the post and tenon. I would like to avoid using
haunched multiple tenons.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 00:31:47 GMT, "stoutman" wrote:

I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the rails to
the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I bought the new issue of Fine WoodDorking and I'm still not sure what to
do. I am going to use through mortise and tenon joinery for the head/foot
rail to post joint. The article states that mortised brackets can loosen up
over time and they are best used on "occassionaly used beds". This was the
method I was going to use.

My question is: Can I still use through tenon joinery and bed bolts? The
two will intersect each other in the post. Thats is, the bed bolt will need
to be driven through the post and tenon. I would like to avoid using
haunched multiple tenons.



You can use a shallow mortise, plus anchor bolt. This allows
disassembly and moving the bed easily. The shallow mortise adds
considerable strength. I did this with my 8-foot work bench.

Watch the quality. What makes them work is the wedging action, and there,
all are not created equal.

If the bed loosens, and even when the wife and I were young that did not
become a problem, you can tap the hook portion of the bracket closed a bit
more to wedge the rail tight up against the post.

"stoutman" wrote in message
om...
Thanks! Very helpful. I think you swayed me back to the brackets. I
really didn't want to mess with bed bolts for aesthetic and construction
reasons.

Thanks again.



wrote in message
oups.com...
I read that article, and I was very surprised to see FW say that about
the mortised brackets. I built my daughter's bed 6 years ago using
these brackets. It's built very "heavy" out of hard maple and weighs a
ton. At the time I built it, I read every book and article I could
get my hands on about bed construction, including at least a couple
books published by Taunton Press (publisher of FW?) and articles that
had appeared in older FWs, and all the things I had read which had
included these brackets had never said anything about any problem with
them loosening or that they were only suitable for "occasionally used"
beds.

stoutman wrote:
I'm making a child bed and I'm not sure how I should connect the
rails to
the foot head board (Bed bolts or mortised brackets)

I just completed building a bed for my oldest son and I used, what I
thought was, an ingenious method for attaching the rails to the posts.
It uses a bed-bolt of sorts but it is "blind" from the outside. I
can't claim credit for the original idea as it came out of the book
called "Beds" by Jeff Miller (ISBN: 1561582549).

It is a bit tough to describe, but I will try.

First of all, I cut a shallow mortise into the post and a corresponding
tennon onto the rail to stop any twist that might be natural when
downward pressure is applied. Second, I took 4 pieces of flat steel
1/4" thick about 2"x2" and drilled and tap'ed them to 5/16" to serve as
oversized "nuts". I then mortised them into the BACK of the tennon
that is on the end of the headboard and footboard bottom stingers.
They can certainly be through-tennons as I don't think it will matter.
I dry fitted the headboard and footboards and drilled 1/2 way through
the post in the center of the rail mortise and tennon on the stringer.
I then disassembled and cur the mortises for the nuts using the holes
as a guide. You then have a hole through the post and tennon and a nut
in the back of the tennon. Only thing left to do is to drill into the
end of the rail (I recommend a drilling jig for this so your drill
stays straight) and cut a pocket in the rail for the nut. Jeff Miller
uses a bed bolt in his book and as a result he has to cut a long pocket
in the rail so he can slide the bolt in. I didn't want to do this so I
used all-thread instead which eliminates the need. This resulted in a
rock-solid bed without having to resort to brackets or have bed bolts
showing and that breaks down very easily. I realize my description
might not be the best so I will attempt some ASCII art. It will also
be very clear if you can get your hands on a copy of the book and
replace the bolt in your mid with all-thread.

SIDE View (inside of rail)

Post
| |
| | Rail
| |--------------------------------
| |
| |--| |
| | | | ---------
| N|| | |Bolt | Nut |
| U||============#
| T|| | | | |
| | | | ---------
| | | |
| |--| |
| |--------------------------------
| |
| |
| |


Hope it helps