I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
really there ought to be a better way..

Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.

~Pike~

"Pike" wrote in message
...

I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
really there ought to be a better way..

Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.


Have you no Cedar Fence Posts offered where you live. A "decent" fence
company should be able to help you out.

Glue up a pair of 2X4 legs.
This would allow for rabbets to simulate thru tenons.
Much easier to do and a lot cheaper.

--=20

PDQ
--
=20
"Pike" wrote in message =
...
|=20
| I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.
|=20
| *Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
| I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
| southern yellow pine and glue them.
|=20
| Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
| really there ought to be a better way..
|=20
| Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
| abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
| treated.
|=20
| ~Pike~
|

On 01 Jan 2005 19:05:50 -0600, Pike
wrote:


I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
really there ought to be a better way..

Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.

~Pike~

How true. I use two 2x4's and glue them together. There's two
advantages over using a 4x4. First, the glued up post is stronger.
Second, lap joints and dados are very easy.

"Pike" wrote in message
...

I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

My local lumber yard has them in cedar, Ipe, mahogany, cypress and maybe
others. Try a place that sell a lot of decking materials.

How true. I use two 2x4's and glue them together. There's two
advantages over using a 4x4. First, the glued up post is stronger.
Second, lap joints and dados are very easy.
I agree 100%. It is much easier to make the base out of 2x4s and much
stronger as well. See
http://www.tomstudwell.com/Projects/Workbench/photoalbum.htm

TWS

Sat, Jan 1, 2005, 7:05pm (EST-1) (Pike)
claims:
snip=A0Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber
yards abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.

Either start at a "real" lumber yard (which does NOT mean Home
Depot), and if they don't have any, then ask them where you might be
able to get some; AND/OR look in your local telephone book, and start
calling.

Apparently you're from a different universe; asking something like
that "here" would come right after I asked my mother.



JOAT
People without "things" are just intelligent animals.

I have a bench that appears to be made out of Fir. Or the wood known
as Fir. Sort of a brown wood. Those benches were made back in 1988. If
you have a real lumber yard in town you may find some real 4x4. I live
in Atlanta where there are a lot of chain lumber yards like 84, West,
HD, Lowes and such. I can think of one yard that I think has been
around for years that is where I go for odd lumber. Of course I go to
hardwood lumber yards for regular furniture wood.

Pike wrote:


I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
really there ought to be a better way..

Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.

~Pike~

Pike wrote:

I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing

Take an axe, hack down a tree, then carve out a 4x4 with an adz. Easy.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Silvan writes:


Take an axe, hack down a tree, then carve out a 4x4 with an adz. Easy.


Been thinking about it. We have some large pines and one of them has
been dropping limbs and looking bad. Two problems: I don't like
dropping 60' trees that are only 30' from the house and a woodmiser
isn't on my list for another 3 years.

~Pike~

TWS writes:


How true. I use two 2x4's and glue them together. There's two
advantages over using a 4x4. First, the glued up post is stronger.
Second, lap joints and dados are very easy.
I agree 100%. It is much easier to make the base out of 2x4s and much
stronger as well. See
http://www.tomstudwell.com/Projects/Workbench/photoalbum.htm

TWS


And, if I could find 2x4 dimensional lumber around here that I was
happy with, all would be good. That is why I am ripping the heart
out of 2x8 SYP planks.

~Pike~

Jim Behning writes:

If you have a real lumber yard in town you may find some real 4x4. I
live in Atlanta where there are a lot of chain lumber yards like 84,
West, HD, Lowes and such. I can think of one yard that I think has
been around for years that is where I go for odd lumber. Of course I
go to hardwood lumber yards for regular furniture wood.

We have a Lowes about 15 miles away. They have some of the
trashiest, nastiest dimensional lumber I have ever seen. There is a
Home Depot 30 odd miles away. I should drop in there sometime and
see what they have. Most of the local yards are *extremely*
contractor oriented. The area is undergowing such a growth spurt
that new construction is the only thing on folks minds. We live in
a small town of 3000 but the growth is creeping up on us. They have
just finished paving the streets for a 450 house subdiv in what was
a cow pasture across the road from us.

It is a good time here to be a backhoe operator or a cabinet maker.


~Pike~

Pike wrote:

We have a Lowes about 15 miles away. They have some of the
trashiest, nastiest dimensional lumber I have ever seen. There is a

Yeahbut it's Top Choice, so it HAS to be good. Why else would they call it
Top Choice? Yeesh.

a small town of 3000 but the growth is creeping up on us. They have
just finished paving the streets for a 450 house subdiv in what was
a cow pasture across the road from us.

Oh joy.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On 01 Jan 2005 19:05:50 -0600, Pike
wrote:


I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

My Menards has untreated pine 4/4 of various species. I even got a couple
of eastern white 10' types for Christmas ornament turning. My bench stands
on 2" hard maple legs, however.


How true. I use two 2x4's and glue them together. There's two
advantages over using a 4x4. First, the glued up post is stronger.
Second, lap joints and dados are very easy.

Maybe you could use some review on "Wood as a Structural Material." Free
pdfs he
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/

Not to mention the inconvenience of those damn rounded corners and loose
tolerances.

Silvan wrote:

Pike wrote:

We have a Lowes about 15 miles away. They have some of the
trashiest, nastiest dimensional lumber I have ever seen. There is a

Yeahbut it's Top Choice, so it HAS to be good. Why else would they call
it
Top Choice? Yeesh.

Maybe it's like olives and condoms, the smallest size is "large".

a small town of 3000 but the growth is creeping up on us. They have
just finished paving the streets for a 450 house subdiv in what was
a cow pasture across the road from us.

Oh joy.


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Silvan writes:

Pike wrote:

a small town of 3000 but the growth is creeping up on us. They have
just finished paving the streets for a 450 house subdiv in what was
a cow pasture across the road from us.

Oh joy.


We moved here from further out in the country because we thought it
would be good to live on the outskirts of town. Just a few blocks to
the only grocery store in town, etc.

That was in April of '04. In June, the cows across the road were
replaced by a herd of bulldozers and scrapers.

On the upside, it looks like it is going to improve our property
value by about 40% (it is going to be an upscale subdiv - big houses
on big lots.

So, we are planning on moving back to the country in about 3
years. This time we are looking for approx 60 acres with a pond
and/or live water.

That should be enough room for an adequate shop.

~Pike~

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 03:05:01 GMT, TWS wrote:



How true. I use two 2x4's and glue them together. There's two
advantages over using a 4x4. First, the glued up post is stronger.
Second, lap joints and dados are very easy.
I agree 100%. It is much easier to make the base out of 2x4s and much
stronger as well. See
http://www.tomstudwell.com/Projects/Workbench/photoalbum.htm

TWS

I like your project pages -- slide show and all. (And I especially
appreciated your efforts on the boards for the kitchen counter -- and even
more so the finished product.) PLEASE could you provide some more details
of the system you use for raising/lowering the casters under your
workbench? Assuming you are unwilling (gee, why not?) to empty the damn
thing and turn it over for some photos, any other info would be
appreciated. Maybe it is just I, but from the simple lever you show it is
difficult to see how you can apparently lift with some ease all 4 casters
under 300# of table and stuff -- and by _lifting_ the lever. Please do not
think I am doubting you; I just want in on the engineering. TIA. -- Igor

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:55:57 GMT, igor wrote:

snip... PLEASE could you provide some more details
of the system you use for raising/lowering the casters under your
workbench?
Thanks for the compliment. The lifter mechanism uses 2 inch angle iron
located in the center of the bench. I have a 1/2 inch steel rod going
through wooden bushings in the front and back and the rod is screwed
to the angle iron and to the wooden lever in the front (a prototype
tapered table leg I no longer needed). At rest the flat of the angle
iron is parallel to the benchtop, as you rotate the lever the angle
iron is rotated until it is vertical creating a 1 1/4 inch lift at the
center. The casters are mounted on four lever arms made out of 2x4s
under the bench with about a 3 to 1 mechanical advantage so the
casters are only moved about 1/4 of an inch but this is enough to lift
the bench. You can see the steel rods for the 2x4s sticking out of
the front of the bench base.

Details not shown is a 1/4 inch thick metal strap I have floating
between the two opposing lever arms, one set in the front, one in the
back, and this is what the angle iron actually pushes on rather than
pushing on the 2x4. I greased this liberally with white lithium grease
to reduce the friction. The lifter works well but the coupling to the
casters is a bit springy due to the weight of the bench, the flex of
the 2x4s, and the tilt of the metal bar coupling the two 2x4s, etc. so
if the weight is not generally balanced then there is a tendency for
the heavy side to drag and I have to shove it a bit to get the casters
balanced before it will roll smoothly. If I had to do it over again I
might put the shafts of the 2x4 levers closer to the center so I get
more lift because the mechanical advantage is more than I need.

I can post some pdfs of the bench drawings on abpw if you are
interested.
TWS

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:22:50 GMT, TWS wrote:

I can post some pdfs of the bench drawings on abpw if you are
interested.
TWS


If these are existing drawings, then YES, that would be great whenever you
get a chance. -- Igor

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 22:29:16 GMT, igor wrote:



If these are existing drawings, then YES, that would be great whenever you
get a chance. -- Igor
Done, enjoy.
TWS

In article ,
Pike wrote:

I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
really there ought to be a better way..

Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.

~Pike~


I was mildly and pleasantly surprised recently to see that Home Depot
was selling untreated 4X4, 8 ft in Doug fir. I haven't seen ANY
Douglas fir at HD in many years. This is in Baltimore Md (East coast
USA)

..
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

"Pike" wrote in message
...

I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

I make 'em. I got a stack of 'em, 4x4, 4x6 too, in ash, cherry, maple,
pine, and maybe one or two other species. It's what's left over when you
saw out a log to grade and the heart is left.

Of course, you also have to have a sawmill, too....

Jon E

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:58:47 GMT, (Lawrence
Wasserman) wrote:

In article ,
Pike wrote:

I see a lot of shop tables with 4"x4" stock for the legs.

*Where* do you get non-treated 4x4 stock nowadays? The best thing
I have been able to come up with is to cut the centers out of 2x8
southern yellow pine and glue them.

Ripping SYP on the unisaw is like going through butter, but there
really there ought to be a better way..

Our neck of the woods is undergoing a building boom - lumber yards
abound. However, everyone assumes that if you want 4x4, you want
treated.

~Pike~


I was mildly and pleasantly surprised recently to see that Home Depot
was selling untreated 4X4, 8 ft in Doug fir. I haven't seen ANY
Douglas fir at HD in many years. This is in Baltimore Md (East coast
USA)

.
yep.. I see redwood and fir 4x4's at the borgs all the time here on
the west coast..
I used 2x6's on my bench and it seems to work fine... some are doubles
and bolted, though..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:58:47 GMT, (Lawrence
Wasserman) wrote:

....

I was mildly and pleasantly surprised recently to see that Home Depot
was selling untreated 4X4, 8 ft in Doug fir. I haven't seen ANY
Douglas fir at HD in many years. This is in Baltimore Md (East coast
USA)

.
yep.. I see redwood and fir 4x4's at the borgs all the time here on
the west coast..
....

But here in the midwest there's some redwood and no fir...some
untreated southern yellow pine.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:24:55 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

mac davis wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:58:47 GMT, (Lawrence
Wasserman) wrote:

...

I was mildly and pleasantly surprised recently to see that Home Depot
was selling untreated 4X4, 8 ft in Doug fir. I haven't seen ANY
Douglas fir at HD in many years. This is in Baltimore Md (East coast
USA)

.
yep.. I see redwood and fir 4x4's at the borgs all the time here on
the west coast..
...

But here in the midwest there's some redwood and no fir...some
untreated southern yellow pine.

Can you alter the plans and laminate 2x4's?
There HAVE to be twobys available...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:24:55 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

mac davis wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:58:47 GMT, (Lawrence
Wasserman) wrote:

...

I was mildly and pleasantly surprised recently to see that Home Depot
snip


Can you alter the plans and laminate 2x4's?
There HAVE to be twobys available...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I read the whole string and not one person mentioned that 2 2x4's are not
dimensionally the same as a 4x4. I suppose that doesn't matter. :-)

I would have 16/4 stock made into 4x4's. There are at least two yards in
Houston that will produce 4x4 stock in any specie of wood that are so
gorgeous, I'm tempted to display them as art objects. I saw some clear white
pine recently that was close to perfect.

Find a real lumber yard.

Lowell Holmes wrote:

....
I would have 16/4 stock made into 4x4's. There are at least two yards in
Houston that will produce 4x4 stock in any specie of wood that are so
gorgeous, I'm tempted to display them as art objects. I saw some clear white
pine recently that was close to perfect.

I'll bet it was a pretty penny, too...

Find a real lumber yard.

Easy (at least theoretically possible?) in larger markets, no
doubt...point of my post was that in rural areas and small markets, it's
simply not possible any more...

I went into the local (one and only) lumber/supply a while back looking
for some fir to match existing work...no one working there on the floor
or behind the counter even knew what it was/is...and when I found Jimmy
(the 2nd in command) he said it wasn't available to them!!!

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Lowell Holmes wrote:

...
I would have 16/4 stock made into 4x4's. There are at least two yards in
Houston that will produce 4x4 stock in any specie of wood that are so
gorgeous, I'm tempted to display them as art objects. I saw some clear
white
pine recently that was close to perfect.

I'll bet it was a pretty penny, too...

It was a pretty price :-(

It probably was about the same as poplar costs at the BORG.

I'm thinking about making blanket chests for two grand daughters and I
really would like to use white pine
and may just do it. The chests would be here long after I'm dust. (So the
cost of the wood could be justified.)
Mike Dunbar did a chest in FWW a few years back that I really want to do,
wrought iron hinges,
milk paint, and square cut nails included.

I know the real yards have been put out of business. I think it's a sad
state of affairs. The guy's at Homestead
Heritage make work benches from SPF (or what ever the BORG calls it). It's
laminated to dimensions that are close to regular sizes. The benches look
great and are functional. I made a rocking chair on one of them.

They did an article that was published in Woodwork Magazine last year about
making a Joiner's Bench.

"Lowell Holmes" writes:


I read the whole string and not one person mentioned that 2 2x4's are not
dimensionally the same as a 4x4. I suppose that doesn't matter. :-)

I am the OP. The point is, I can get SYP in nothing smaller
than 2x8x10'. The only 2x4 stock I can get is SPF trash.


Find a real lumber yard.

I would love to. We had them when I was a kid. A while back I called
a local place that advertised having hardwoods. I asked them if they
had any 4/4 white oak and they said "what's that?"

~Pike~

"Pike" wrote in message
...

"Lowell Holmes" writes:


I read the whole string and not one person mentioned that 2 2x4's are not
dimensionally the same as a 4x4. I suppose that doesn't matter. :-)

I am the OP. The point is, I can get SYP in nothing smaller
than 2x8x10'. The only 2x4 stock I can get is SPF trash.


Find a real lumber yard.

I would love to. We had them when I was a kid. A while back I called
a local place that advertised having hardwoods. I asked them if they
had any 4/4 white oak and they said "what's that?"

~Pike~

I didn't mean to sound critical. I do sympathize with your situation. I
guess I'm blessed to be in
an area that has both saw mills and retail yards . There is a yard just 15
minutes that has all sizes of
milled dimension lumber in various species. They have no rough lumber (other
than western red cedar). There are at least 4 yards in the Houston area that
carries rough lumber as well as milled lumber.
There are a number of saw mills in the state that will sell retail. Making
a one to three hours drive will get me to
saw mills that will custom mill a log if I want it.

Are there saw mills in your area?

"Lowell Holmes" writes:

Are there saw mills in your area?

None that are interested small orders. I remember back
about 25 years ago, when there were sawmills all over
the place around here. Getting a pickup load of green oak
4/4 for building a shed was no big deal. Now most of the local
mills are just piles of rotting sawdust, and the few that remain
seem to specialize in making railroad ties.

It doesn't matter. I'm starting to really like SYP.

~Pike~

Pike wrote:
....

...
a local place that advertised having hardwoods. I asked them if they
had any 4/4 white oak and they said "what's that?"

I feel your pain...

Got the same response from the local Best Lumber on Doug Fir...

The only hardwood (other than the small stock at the trade school)
available locally is the pre-milled glued-up read oak shelf panels at
the Ace Hardware for exorbitant pricing and which show no matching for
grain, etc....

I've resorted to buying 300-400 bf of any particular type of stock I
want for each project simply for the purpose of building up an inventory
to have on hand. To do that, of course, requires having a place to
store it and the cash available to be able to do so...I'm lucky I now
have the roof on the barn intact again so I have dry storage in the loft
and so far I've only bought less expensive stuff like some 5/4 soft
maple and 4/4 white oak. It means driving 200 mi to Wichita to pick it
up as well...

When back in E KS and SW MO next month I'm going to start an extensive
search for a small mill...I've a brother in that area that may be able
to help and gives me an excuse for going back there...it's 350 mi or so,
though. I've been told there are some suppliers in the Denver area, but
I've not yet explored too thoroughly....it's 250 mi or so there and
don't get that direction very often for other purposes.

Try Northland Forest Products, Inc. in Troy VA which is about 40 miles West
of Richmond. 434-589-8213. I have been buying from them for some time. I
believe they do ship, but am not sure as I am only 6 miles from them.

--
Chuck Callaghan




"Pike" wrote in message
...

"Lowell Holmes" writes:


I read the whole string and not one person mentioned that 2 2x4's are
not
dimensionally the same as a 4x4. I suppose that doesn't matter. :-)

I am the OP. The point is, I can get SYP in nothing smaller
than 2x8x10'. The only 2x4 stock I can get is SPF trash.


Find a real lumber yard.

I would love to. We had them when I was a kid. A while back I called
a local place that advertised having hardwoods. I asked them if they
had any 4/4 white oak and they said "what's that?"

~Pike~