I found an Oliver 4255 12" jointer that although being run hard appears to
be in pretty good shape at a nearby sawmill. I can buy it for what they are
getting out of it for trade in value. What do you fella's think of this
deal?
1. $1800 for the planer without the 3 phase motor.
2. The guy at the sawmill will deliver it and bring a material handler to
set it in place for another $300. Weighs 1400 lbs.
3. A single phase 3hp motor from Oliver with all the necessary bits to
retrofit is in the $1200 range.
4. Needs to have the helical knives replaced I have no idea of that cost..

Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort? Also does anyone have
experience with those helical cut knives they could share? The Oliver
website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy blade
change with no setting required". But it sure seems like a real "top o line"
unit. This would be for a specific timber framing project and go up for sale
afterwards. (Hopefully not at a loss)

Thanks guys!
Knothead

BTW please post responses to the wreck. I was a fool sometime back and
posted a real address and learned that lesson the hard way.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:18:12 -0600, Knothead wrote:

I found an Oliver 4255 12" jointer that although being run hard appears
to be in pretty good shape at a nearby sawmill.

How thoroughly have you checked it out? Give it the business with winding
sticks, a straight edge, and a square. Hopefully they will allow you to
run some stock through it as well. If it has been run hard and they're
ready to trade it in, I'd have to question why.

I can buy it for what they
are getting out of it for trade in value. What do you fella's think of
this deal?
1. $1800 for the planer without the 3 phase motor. 2. The guy at the
sawmill will deliver it and bring a material handler to set it in place
for another $300. Weighs 1400 lbs. 3. A single phase 3hp motor from
Oliver with all the necessary bits to retrofit is in the $1200 range. 4.
Needs to have the helical knives replaced I have no idea of that cost..

Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort?

Comparison- A new Powermatic 12" 3hp jointer will run roughly $3400 before
shipping. But then, it will have a warranty.

Grizzly's largest 12" jointer (3hp, spiral cutter head) runs about the
same price.

I suspect that the Oliver is a significantly better machine than either of
these *IF* it hasn't been abused to the point of requiring serious TLC. If
you love old iron, I think the Oliver is the way to go. But realize that
you'll probably put more time into it than a new, but less capable,
machine.

Also does anyone
have experience with those helical cut knives they could share? The
Oliver website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy
blade change with no setting required". But it sure seems like a real
"top o line" unit. This would be for a specific timber framing project
and go up for sale afterwards.

OK, now you've lost me.

(Hopefully not at a loss)

Thanks guys!
Knothead

BTW please post responses to the wreck. I was a fool sometime back and
posted a real address and learned that lesson the hard way.

Using a real address isn't the problem. Using your *main* real address is.
Get a free e-mail account for stuff like Usenet posting. I'll send you a
Gmail invite, if you'd like.

--
Joe Wells

Oliver is a great tool. Period. I believe the helical cutters use carbide
inserts which are cnc designed to be accurate by simply screwing them in
place. With lathe tooling the inserts are ground on 4 sides so you should
remove one or at least inspect them. You might get more uses from the
inserts. You can get a 3 hp motor for $100-$200 used and adapt it yourself
unless it is direct drive. The delivery fee sounds reasonable. You will have
an awesome machine but don't ever move.
max

I found an Oliver 4255 12" jointer that although being run hard appears to
be in pretty good shape at a nearby sawmill. I can buy it for what they are
getting out of it for trade in value. What do you fella's think of this
deal?
1. $1800 for the planer without the 3 phase motor.
2. The guy at the sawmill will deliver it and bring a material handler to
set it in place for another $300. Weighs 1400 lbs.
3. A single phase 3hp motor from Oliver with all the necessary bits to
retrofit is in the $1200 range.
4. Needs to have the helical knives replaced I have no idea of that cost..

Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort? Also does anyone have
experience with those helical cut knives they could share? The Oliver
website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy blade
change with no setting required". But it sure seems like a real "top o line"
unit. This would be for a specific timber framing project and go up for sale
afterwards. (Hopefully not at a loss)

Thanks guys!
Knothead

BTW please post responses to the wreck. I was a fool sometime back and
posted a real address and learned that lesson the hard way.

Knothead wrote:
I found an Oliver 4255 12" jointer that although being run hard appears to
be in pretty good shape at a nearby sawmill. I can buy it for what they are
getting out of it for trade in value. What do you fella's think of this
deal?
1. $1800 for the planer without the 3 phase motor.
2. The guy at the sawmill will deliver it and bring a material handler to
set it in place for another $300. Weighs 1400 lbs.
3. A single phase 3hp motor from Oliver with all the necessary bits to
retrofit is in the $1200 range.
4. Needs to have the helical knives replaced I have no idea of that cost..

Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort? Also does anyone have
experience with those helical cut knives they could share? The Oliver
website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy blade
change with no setting required". But it sure seems like a real "top o line"
unit. This would be for a specific timber framing project and go up for sale
afterwards. (Hopefully not at a loss)

Thanks guys!
Knothead

BTW please post responses to the wreck. I was a fool sometime back and
posted a real address and learned that lesson the hard way.


Seems a very expensive exercise for your stated objective. I dont
understand why they are selling the machine without the motor, even if
the motor burnt out you would still have the rest of the stuff. $1200
seems an awful lot for a motor, typically 3 ph 3 hp motors run in the
range of $300, I very much doubt if a potential purchaser will take into
account that you have fitted a new motor to a nn year old machine.
Unless its some very exotic faming your doing it would be much cheaper
to get the supplier to do the wood prep. Different case if you are into
setting up a cabinet shop or similar, but you have much better
options for just the one job.

BernardR

Using a real address isn't the problem. Using your *main* real address is.
Get a free e-mail account for stuff like Usenet posting. I'll send you a
Gmail invite, if you'd like.
....I'd like a Gmail account....

That's a lot of money. Is that a Direct Drive motor? Given the prices I
would assume. Keep the motor and if you don't have three phase just make a
rotory or static converter. It's not hard.

$1800 is a lot, but the helical cutter head does add some. If the jointer
is in good shape I would spend $1800 for it with the original motor and
helical cutterhed. Do not spend $3400 on this machine though! Do not
spend $1200 for a single phase motor. Just get yourself a phase converter.

I moved my 1500# Porter 16" jointer for $20. The cost of the uhaul trailer,
or you can spend $100 and get a uhaul with a lift gate. If you don't have
an engine lift that will run you another $50 (?) at the local rental shop.

This would be for a specific timber framing project and go up
for sale afterwards. (Hopefully not at a loss)
You will lose money. No one will spend $3400 for this jointer no matter
what you did to it. Just watch ebay if you don't believe me. Also, I've
send 16" and 20"'ers go for a lot less that $3400.


Knothead wrote:

I found an Oliver 4255 12" jointer that although being run hard appears to
be in pretty good shape at a nearby sawmill. I can buy it for what they
are getting out of it for trade in value. What do you fella's think of
this deal?
1. $1800 for the planer without the 3 phase motor.
2. The guy at the sawmill will deliver it and bring a material handler to
set it in place for another $300. Weighs 1400 lbs.
3. A single phase 3hp motor from Oliver with all the necessary bits to
retrofit is in the $1200 range.
4. Needs to have the helical knives replaced I have no idea of that cost..

Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort? Also does anyone have
experience with those helical cut knives they could share? The Oliver
website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy blade
change with no setting required". But it sure seems like a real "top o
line" unit. This would be for a specific timber framing project and go up
for sale afterwards. (Hopefully not at a loss)

Thanks guys!
Knothead

BTW please post responses to the wreck. I was a fool sometime back and
posted a real address and learned that lesson the hard way.

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I need to do some more homework. I
just emailed the Oliver folks for a quote on the moter but it is not a
direct drive so I am looking for a cheaper motor. I'm hoping Max is right
and I can find a motor a few hundred dollars. This is going to be part of
barn restoration and we are going to be resizing beams right on sight from a
second building at the sight. Nearest place to handle these beams would be
120 miles round trip so we won't be jobbing out offsite. Distance also
accounts for the delivery charge and I think 300 is reasonable since they'll
drop it wherever I want. And this is well off the beaten path. I have no
experience with the Oliver but the bed is two feet longer than any
competitors for the same price and I have to admit all the actions and
tables have excellent movement and adjustment and appear to be superior to
Grizzly's like sized product. I could certainly change my mind and move it
back to the shop after the project. So in the end while it sounds like it's
not the deal of the century I don't think I'm getting hosed either. If I can
knock the motor cost down I think I'll pull the trigger on it. Will post
some photo's if I do buy it.

Joe,
Thanks for the offer on the gmail account. Unfortunately I get my Internet
access at work and there is a content management filter that denies most
HTML type mail accounts as email viruses had become apparently
insurmountable problem for the folks in IT. I'm kinda challenged at this
email stuff and prefer to stay off those guys radars...

Thanks again for all your help
Merry Christmas and Happy sawdust makin!

Knothead

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:00:30 -0600, Faustino Dina wrote:

Using a real address isn't the problem. Using your *main* real address
is. Get a free e-mail account for stuff like Usenet posting. I'll send
you a Gmail invite, if you'd like.
...I'd like a Gmail account....

I'll need a valid e-mail account to send the invitation to (yes, you must
have an e-mail address before you can get an e-mail address ...). Give me
the info at my address, it's valid and unmunged.

--
Joe Wells

Knothead wrote:
snip

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I need to do some more homework. I
just emailed the Oliver folks for a quote on the moter but it is not a
direct drive so I am looking for a cheaper motor. I'm hoping Max is right
and I can find a motor a few hundred dollars.

At one time surpluscenter.com had some motors for woodworking machines
at reasonable prices.

This is going to be part of
barn restoration and we are going to be resizing beams right on sight from a
second building at the sight. Nearest place to handle these beams would be
120 miles round trip so we won't be jobbing out offsite.

Are you taking any precautions about scanning the beams before planing
them? Having been bitten before by hidden nails and one time by an
enbeded bullet I try and avoid putting reclaimed wood through a planer,
gets expensive - even more so with those helical blades.

Distance also
accounts for the delivery charge and I think 300 is reasonable since they'll
drop it wherever I want. And this is well off the beaten path. I have no
experience with the Oliver but the bed is two feet longer than any
competitors for the same price and I have to admit all the actions and
tables have excellent movement and adjustment and appear to be superior to
Grizzly's like sized product. I could certainly change my mind and move it
back to the shop after the project. So in the end while it sounds like it's
not the deal of the century I don't think I'm getting hosed either. If I can
knock the motor cost down I think I'll pull the trigger on it. Will post
some photo's if I do buy it.

Joe,
Knothead

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:18:12 -0600, "Knothead"
wrote:

Does $3400 for that monster seem worth the effort?

Not for timber framing.

For some uses, I can see that sort of machine being useful. But for
the quality of finish I need for framing work, I can buy S/H machines
of this size for a lot less than that sort of money. Maybe for oak,
maybe if you're feeding recycled stock and going to hit the odd nail,
if the extra benefits of carbide tooling are worth it to you....

I don't know - but don't rush at it, compare what other machines you
could have instead. Maybe you need a big 12" jointer, but that doesn't
necessarily mean you need _this_ jointer.

The Oliver
website seems to make it sound a bit too easy... " quick and easy blade
change with no setting required".

I don't know Olivers....

The usual setup isn't a "knife", but rather a line of tungsten carbide
inserts. This is an idea copied wholesale from metalworking, where
carbide inserts have been common practice for maybe 25 years now.
Their advantages are the long wear life of carbide, relatively low
cost (these things are made by the million), easy set-up and alignment
and especially for wide jointers, the ability to replace damage in
sections.

Like many thickness planers, and a few jointers, these knives are
deliberately non-adjustable, therefore don't require adjustment. You
put the right inserts in, and the machining of their holder does the
rest. A moderately trained operator can do it, not a tool-setter
(another cost saving).

However do the maths first - what are the inserts, are any included
(including spares), can you get more of them (there are _many_
variations and you need exactly the right sort) - then what will a new
"set of knives" cost you ?
--
Smert' spamionam

"Knothead" wrote in message
...

This is going to be part of
barn restoration and we are going to be resizing beams right on sight from
a
second building at the sight.


Resizing barn beams with a planer? Why not just get a big band saw?

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"Bernard R" wrote in message
...
Knothead wrote:
snip

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I need to do some more homework.
I
just emailed the Oliver folks for a quote on the moter but it is not a
direct drive so I am looking for a cheaper motor. I'm hoping Max is right
and I can find a motor a few hundred dollars.

At one time surpluscenter.com had some motors for woodworking machines
at reasonable prices.

I'll look into it thanks for the tip

This is going to be part of
barn restoration and we are going to be resizing beams right on sight from
a
second building at the sight. Nearest place to handle these beams would be
120 miles round trip so we won't be jobbing out offsite.

Are you taking any precautions about scanning the beams before planing
them? Having been bitten before by hidden nails and one time by an
enbeded bullet I try and avoid putting reclaimed wood through a planer,
gets expensive - even more so with those helical blades.

Yep, have 2 different versions of metal detector but at this point most of
the nails are not much higher than as high as a man can reach... Besides the
roof

Distance also
accounts for the delivery charge and I think 300 is reasonable since
they'll
drop it wherever I want. And this is well off the beaten path. I have no
experience with the Oliver but the bed is two feet longer than any
competitors for the same price and I have to admit all the actions and
tables have excellent movement and adjustment and appear to be superior to
Grizzly's like sized product. I could certainly change my mind and move it
back to the shop after the project. So in the end while it sounds like
it's
not the deal of the century I don't think I'm getting hosed either. If I
can
knock the motor cost down I think I'll pull the trigger on it. Will post
some photo's if I do buy it.

Joe,
Knothead

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...

"Knothead" wrote in message
...

This is going to be part of
barn restoration and we are going to be resizing beams right on sight from
a
second building at the sight.


Resizing barn beams with a planer? Why not just get a big band saw?

You betcha, Woodmizer first face joint the saw cut and distress it with adz
and hatchet

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"Knothead" wrote in message
...

Grizzly's like sized product. I could certainly change my mind and move it
back to the shop after the project. So in the end while it sounds like
it's
not the deal of the century I don't think I'm getting hosed either. If I
can
knock the motor cost down I think I'll pull the trigger on it. Will post
some photo's if I do buy it.

Seems to me that you just "want" this machine and are using the project to
justify it - something we all are afflicted with.

Bob

Could be mister could be.... It's one impressive hunk of iron


"BillyBob" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Knothead" wrote in message
...

Grizzly's like sized product. I could certainly change my mind and move it
back to the shop after the project. So in the end while it sounds like
it's
not the deal of the century I don't think I'm getting hosed either. If I
can
knock the motor cost down I think I'll pull the trigger on it. Will post
some photo's if I do buy it.

Seems to me that you just "want" this machine and are using the project to
justify it - something we all are afflicted with.

Bob

"BillyBob" wrote in message
ink.net...


Seems to me that you just "want" this machine and are using the project to
justify it - something we all are afflicted with.

Bob



Shhhhhh. You aren't supposed to say that out loud.
--

-Mike-