Crossposted alt.home.repair / rec.woodworking -- mainly because this is
sort of a woodworking question, but the wood is part of my bathroom wall.

I have received a pair of barrel hinges from Rockler. I'm going to try
to use them to hang the new medicine cabinet door on the cabinet I built
into the wall. An earlier post described how the door fits flush against
the face of the cabinet, and barrel hinges seem to be a good solution.
So anyway.

I need to drill a 14mm diameter hole into the edge of the cabinet side
to accept the hinges. The side is 3/4'' MDF. 14mm is 0.551'', which does
not leave a lot of sidewall in 3/4'' material -- about 3/32'' per side.
If the cabinet was NOT in the wall I would put the sides into my drill
press so I'd have a fighting chance of getting the hole straight. But it
is in the plaster wall and trying to do this job by eye and with a hand
drill is not likely to succeed. (This is what happens when I don't plan
ahead real well.)

What kind of hand drill-alignment gadgets are there that can help a
fellow drill square, straight, and level?

If I can run a 14mm diameter, 15.5mm deep hole exactly down the middle
of this 3/4'' -- TWICE! -- I will be a hero in my own home. My wife will
think I am quite the he-man, my kids . . . well, they are teenagers. I
might be able to raise a "whatever," out of them. But I'd be darn pleased.

--
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to
make it shorter.
-- Blaise Pascal
------------------------------------

You can make a drill guide out of 1" thick stock, with the holes made on the
drill press. Use the hinge itself as a pattern to mark the holes. Once
drilled, use doublesided tape to secure to the side walls and drill as
needed. Remove and mount hinges.

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...
Crossposted alt.home.repair / rec.woodworking -- mainly because this is
sort of a woodworking question, but the wood is part of my bathroom wall.

I have received a pair of barrel hinges from Rockler. I'm going to try to
use them to hang the new medicine cabinet door on the cabinet I built into
the wall. An earlier post described how the door fits flush against the
face of the cabinet, and barrel hinges seem to be a good solution. So
anyway.

I need to drill a 14mm diameter hole into the edge of the cabinet side to
accept the hinges. The side is 3/4'' MDF. 14mm is 0.551'', which does not
leave a lot of sidewall in 3/4'' material -- about 3/32'' per side. If the
cabinet was NOT in the wall I would put the sides into my drill press so
I'd have a fighting chance of getting the hole straight. But it is in the
plaster wall and trying to do this job by eye and with a hand drill is not
likely to succeed. (This is what happens when I don't plan ahead real
well.)

What kind of hand drill-alignment gadgets are there that can help a fellow
drill square, straight, and level?

If I can run a 14mm diameter, 15.5mm deep hole exactly down the middle of
this 3/4'' -- TWICE! -- I will be a hero in my own home. My wife will
think I am quite the he-man, my kids . . . well, they are teenagers. I
might be able to raise a "whatever," out of them. But I'd be darn pleased.

--
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to
make it shorter.
-- Blaise Pascal
------------------------------------

On 12/17/2004 3:38 PM Chris Carruth wrote:

You can make a drill guide out of 1" thick stock, with the holes made on the
drill press. Use the hinge itself as a pattern to mark the holes. Once
drilled, use doublesided tape to secure to the side walls and drill as
needed. Remove and mount hinges.

Hm. Lemme think about this. With a barrel hinge, there is ONE hole per
hinge. In my case, the hole is 14mm diameter, and goes in 15.5mm deep.
Right into the edge of the 3/4'' MDF cabinet wall.

Knowing me, if I taped a pre-drilled bit of stock against the wall, I'd
probably tug the tape out of place when I shoved that 14mm brad-point
drill down into it. But I could make a right-angled fixture and screw it
onto the side of the MDF -- I could patch the screw holes later and
paint over them.

I think you have answered my plea for help! Thank you!

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router collet is,
and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once you got a pilot
hole you have a chance. Whatever!
MG


"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...
Crossposted alt.home.repair / rec.woodworking -- mainly because this is
sort of a woodworking question, but the wood is part of my bathroom wall.

I have received a pair of barrel hinges from Rockler. I'm going to try to
use them to hang the new medicine cabinet door on the cabinet I built into
the wall. An earlier post described how the door fits flush against the
face of the cabinet, and barrel hinges seem to be a good solution. So
anyway.

I need to drill a 14mm diameter hole into the edge of the cabinet side to
accept the hinges. The side is 3/4'' MDF. 14mm is 0.551'', which does not
leave a lot of sidewall in 3/4'' material -- about 3/32'' per side. If the
cabinet was NOT in the wall I would put the sides into my drill press so
I'd have a fighting chance of getting the hole straight. But it is in the
plaster wall and trying to do this job by eye and with a hand drill is not
likely to succeed. (This is what happens when I don't plan ahead real
well.)

What kind of hand drill-alignment gadgets are there that can help a fellow
drill square, straight, and level?

If I can run a 14mm diameter, 15.5mm deep hole exactly down the middle of
this 3/4'' -- TWICE! -- I will be a hero in my own home. My wife will
think I am quite the he-man, my kids . . . well, they are teenagers. I
might be able to raise a "whatever," out of them. But I'd be darn pleased.

--
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to
make it shorter.
-- Blaise Pascal
------------------------------------

On 12/17/2004 6:50 PM MG wrote:

Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router collet is,
and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once you got a pilot
hole you have a chance. Whatever!

Heh. Not a bad idea . . . except I reckon the 14mm brad-point bit I have
on order is too long. I like it otherwise, esp. the idea of jamming a
14mm bit into MDF at 20,000 rpm. Yee haw!

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

Life's Great Irony #146: Turtles have a drag coefficient of .03
------------------------------------

Rocket J. notes: Turtles have a drag coefficient of .03
Can you imagine how slow they'd be with more drag?

Dan

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

I could make a right-angled fixture and screw it onto the side
of the MDF -- I could patch the screw holes later and paint
over them.

Or you could use a C-Clamp to hold your right-angled fixture in
place and not have screw holes to patch...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:
On 12/17/2004 6:50 PM MG wrote:

Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router
collet is, and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once
you got a pilot hole you have a chance. Whatever!


Heh. Not a bad idea . . . except I reckon the 14mm brad-point bit I have
on order is too long. I like it otherwise, esp. the idea of jamming a
14mm bit into MDF at 20,000 rpm. Yee haw!

Err, he never said put your 14mm bit in the router. Read.

On 12/17/2004 9:17 PM wrote:

Rocket J. notes: Turtles have a drag coefficient of .03
Can you imagine how slow they'd be with more drag?

Turtles IN drag?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

Actual Test Answers Music Teachers Have Received, #23:
For some reason, they always put a treble clef in front of every
line of flute music. You just watch.
------------------------------------

On 12/18/2004 6:25 AM Paul Kierstead wrote:

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

On 12/17/2004 6:50 PM MG wrote:

Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router
collet is, and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once
you got a pilot hole you have a chance. Whatever!

Heh. Not a bad idea . . . except I reckon the 14mm brad-point bit I
have on order is too long. I like it otherwise, esp. the idea of
jamming a 14mm bit into MDF at 20,000 rpm. Yee haw!


Err, he never said put your 14mm bit in the router. Read.

Oh, right. I jumped to a conclusion. Use the router for the pilot hole.
My bad.

--
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

If, at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.
-- Albert Einstien
------------------------------------

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2004 6:50 PM MG wrote:

Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router collet
is, and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once you got a
pilot hole you have a chance. Whatever!

Heh. Not a bad idea . . . except I reckon the 14mm brad-point bit I have
on order is too long. I like it otherwise, esp. the idea of jamming a 14mm
bit into MDF at 20,000 rpm. Yee haw!

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

Life's Great Irony #146: Turtles have a drag coefficient of .03
------------------------------------

NO,NO The routher is to drill only a pilot hole. Then you can have a better
feeling when you drill free hand. Perhaps you want to go with small
increment in diameter. The router leaves you no choice on the bit
diameter.

MG

On 12/18/2004 7:46 AM MG wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...

On 12/17/2004 6:50 PM MG wrote:


Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router collet
is, and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once you got a
pilot hole you have a chance. Whatever!

Heh. Not a bad idea . . . except I reckon the 14mm brad-point bit I have
on order is too long. I like it otherwise, esp. the idea of jamming a 14mm
bit into MDF at 20,000 rpm. Yee haw!

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

Life's Great Irony #146: Turtles have a drag coefficient of .03
------------------------------------


NO,NO The routher is to drill only a pilot hole. Then you can have a better
feeling when you drill free hand. Perhaps you want to go with small
increment in diameter. The router leaves you no choice on the bit
diameter.

Um. Duh?

Shuffles feet, face turning red from embarrassment

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

"Bother," said Pooh, as he wandered into the meat slicer.
------------------------------------

On 12/17/2004 6:50 PM MG wrote:

Could use a router with a 1"/4 or 1"/2 bit, whatever your router collet is,
and plunge placing the router face against the wall. Once you got a pilot
hole you have a chance. Whatever!
MG


Okay, now back to this excellent suggestion which I initially
misunderstood.

To recap: I'll be mounting two 14mm barrel hinges into the edge of 3/4''
MDF. The body of the barrel hinge measures 0.558''. The mfgr specifies
14mm holes (0.5512) so this is a press-fit. A 35/64'' holes will be too
tight, and the mfgr does not recommend oversized holes, so 9/16'' will
be too loose, so 14mm it is. The hole is to be 15.5mm (.61'') deep.

I did a couple trial plunges with a 1/4'' straight router bit to get a
pilot hole then followed that my largest twist-drill bit (1/2'') and it
tore the sidewall, so a twist-drill bit is not the way to go. I have a
14mm brad-point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I reckon it will tear
out the thin side wall, also.

I don't have a 14mm straight router bit, but a test-drive using a 3/4''
diameter bit real close to the edge did not result in sidewall tear-out.

I reckon I could do the whole job with a single plunge if I had a 14mm
diameter straight router bit w/ 1/4'' shaft. Rockler doesn't seem to
have this listed. Does such an animal exist?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall
never cease to be amused.
------------------------------------

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

I reckon I could do the whole job with a single plunge if I
had a 14mm diameter straight router bit w/ 1/4'' shaft.
Rockler doesn't seem to have this listed. Does such an animal
exist?

Mike...

It isn't really needed. Some years back I built a fixture for
routing board edges that allowed me to do anything to the edge of
a 3/4" thick board that I could do a face.

I built two 15"-long wooden L-shaped brackets and set them on my
bench like so:

| |
| |
___| |___

Then at one end I glued a block (approx 3/4 x 3 x 3-1/2) between
the two brackets and clamped it overnight.

Then (next day), I turned the fixture right side up, inserted the
1x12 whose end I wanted to rout between the two "jaws" and used a
C-clamp to squeeze the open end, which secured the 1x12 in place
in the fixture. I put the whole works in my bench vise, adjusted
my router guide, and (supporting the router base on the fixture's
"table" surface) did the necessary routing.

Next point: You can route any size hole you want provided that
the cutting diameter is smaller than the diameter of the hole.
You may need to drill/cut/sand a template to suit a bushing for
your hole; but you can do it. I do that kind of drilling fairly
regularly on my CNC machine - and will post a graphic of the tool
path for drilling a 2" hole with a 1/4" bit on ABPW. It's a bit
more setup work without the CNC; but exactly the same idea.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On 12/18/2004 11:35 AM Morris Dovey wrote:

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

I reckon I could do the whole job with a single plunge if I
had a 14mm diameter straight router bit w/ 1/4'' shaft.
Rockler doesn't seem to have this listed. Does such an animal
exist?


Mike...

It isn't really needed. Some years back I built a fixture for routing
board edges that allowed me to do anything to the edge of a 3/4" thick
board that I could do a face.

excellent step-by-step procedure snipped

I don't have any way to clamp the work piece. The edge I need to put the
hole into is part of a medicine cabinet already in the bathroom wall.
The top, bottom, and right/left sides of the cabinet are flush with the
plaster wall. It is into one of these sides -- 3/4'' MDF -- that I need
to put the hole into. Otherwise, believe me, I would clamp the piece on
the bench and set up guides and stuff.

Next point: You can route any size hole you want provided that the
cutting diameter is smaller than the diameter of the hole.

Hm. Okay, this is looking promising.

Let's say I want to route a 5/8ths diameter hole, 5/8ths deep, into the
edge of this piece of in-wall 3/4'' MDF. I can clamp a fixture to the
side of the cabinet by screwing it to the inside )a few screw holes, a
little spackle . . . ) -- what would I make the bushing/guide out of so
the router does not cut it, nor mess up the router bit? Some special
straight router bit I can plunge with that has a guide wheel on the
motor side?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

Hm. Okay, this is looking promising.

Let's say I want to route a 5/8ths diameter hole, 5/8ths deep,
into the edge of this piece of in-wall 3/4'' MDF. I can clamp
a fixture to the side of the cabinet by screwing it to the
inside )a few screw holes, a little spackle . . . ) -- what
would I make the bushing/guide out of so the router does not
cut it, nor mess up the router bit? Some special straight
router bit I can plunge with that has a guide wheel on the
motor side?

The easiest way to get a reasonably precise hole would be to use
a template guide bushing (see
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=41778&category=1,43000&ccurrency=2&S ID=
for examples) in conjunction with a hole template. The template
needn't be anything more than a piece of plywood or hardboard
with a circular through-hole for the guide bushing to bear
against while outlining the hole you want. Cleaning out the
interior of the hole is easy to do freehand.

I'd glue the hardboard template to the edge of a piece of 1"
scrap so that I could clamp/screw the whole fixture to the board
whose edge I want to route.

The only part that takes a bit of thought is working out the
correct guide bushing/template hole size/bit size combination. If
I'm thinking straight, the template hole diameter should be given by:

T = H + (G - C) whe

T Diameter of template hole
H Diameter of desired edge hole
G Outside diameter of guide bushing
C Bit's cutting diameter

For a 5/8" hole you could use (for example) a 1/4" straight bit
and a 1/2" template guide bushing. Then:

T = 5/8 + (1/2 - 1/4) = 5/8 + 1/4 = 7/8

Does that make sense or do I just need more coffee?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

I've used a lot of Soss hinges over the years, but at least when I was
using them they were English measurements...

On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.

Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.


I've used a lot of Soss hinges over the years, but at least when I was
using them they were English measurements...

This barrel hinge comes from Rockler, I presume it is euro or Asian-sourced.
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

On 12/18/2004 1:54 PM Morris Dovey wrote:

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

Hm. Okay, this is looking promising.

Let's say I want to route a 5/8ths diameter hole, 5/8ths deep,
into the edge of this piece of in-wall 3/4'' MDF. I can clamp
a fixture to the side of the cabinet by screwing it to the
inside )a few screw holes, a little spackle . . . ) -- what
would I make the bushing/guide out of so the router does not
cut it, nor mess up the router bit? Some special straight
router bit I can plunge with that has a guide wheel on the motor side?


The easiest way to get a reasonably precise hole would be to use a
template guide bushing (see
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=41778&category=1,43000&ccurrency=2&S ID=
for examples) in conjunction with a hole template. The template needn't
be anything more than a piece of plywood or hardboard with a circular
through-hole for the guide bushing to bear against while outlining the
hole you want. Cleaning out the interior of the hole is easy to do
freehand.

I can see how that template guide bushing would make the job simple. It
also seems to me that a piece of, say, copper tubing with an i.d. a bit
larger than the 1/4'' router bit shaft, and an o.d. somewhat larger than
the diameter of the router bit would make a suitable bushing to keep the
bit from chewing away the template.


I'd glue the hardboard template to the edge of a piece of 1" scrap so
that I could clamp/screw the whole fixture to the board whose edge I
want to route.

Exactly. Any means to hold that template flush against the edge of the
MDF and immobile would work just peachy.


The only part that takes a bit of thought is working out the correct
guide bushing/template hole size/bit size combination. If I'm thinking
straight, the template hole diameter should be given by:

T = H + (G - C) whe

T Diameter of template hole
H Diameter of desired edge hole
G Outside diameter of guide bushing
C Bit's cutting diameter

For a 5/8" hole you could use (for example) a 1/4" straight bit and a
1/2" template guide bushing. Then:

T = 5/8 + (1/2 - 1/4) = 5/8 + 1/4 = 7/8

Does that make sense or do I just need more coffee?


You said there wouldn't be any math.

--

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Routing a circular hole larger than the router bit:

The green circle is the circumference of the desired hole.
The red spiral is the path of the center of the router bit.
The black circles show the position of the router bit at the
start/end of each move.

Uh, how do you control the router to follow this path?

Bob

In article . net,
"Bob" wrote:

Uh, how do you control the router to follow this path?

Bob

Stepper motors, gears, a controller box, and a computer. 'cept us old
farts with the cables an' pulleys instead of gears, but even I'm
considering some new parts. Nothin' to it...

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

Bob wrote:

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...

Routing a circular hole larger than the router bit:

The green circle is the circumference of the desired hole.
The red spiral is the path of the center of the router bit.
The black circles show the position of the router bit at the
start/end of each move.

Uh, how do you control the router to follow this path?

The same program that I used to create the graphic is also used
to control a CNC router. I put together the graphics generation
as a way to do a reasonableness check of my CNC part programs.

The program controls stepper motors that move the spindle in x-,
y-, and z-dimensions. The goal with this particular program was
to be able to drill any size hole with any bit with same or
smaller diameter with a maximum 0.001" error, the least amount of
cut overlap, and the smallest possible number of "move" commands
- starting from the center of the hole (to avoid having center
cut-outs flying around the shop.)

It was an interesting challenge. I had to go back and add logic
to restrict depth of cut after snapping a 1/4" carbide bit. Now
the program cuts "deep" holes in stages - and doesn't break bits.

If the routing is beeing done freehand, all that really matters
is that the edge is clean - and there needn't be any concern that
the hole won't be completely cleaned out.

There's a link to an early (and primitive) version of the CNC
code at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/sbadd.html. You can download
the text file DRILL.SBP for a look (unix text; set tabs to 3).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

I can see how that template guide bushing would make the job
simple. It also seems to me that a piece of, say, copper
tubing with an i.d. a bit larger than the 1/4'' router bit
shaft, and an o.d. somewhat larger than the diameter of the
router bit would make a suitable bushing to keep the bit from
chewing away the template.

cringe

Unless you /really/ crave this year's Darwin Award, I'd suggest
you not allow any loose metal anywhere near the whirly parts of a
router!

It's ok to run a drill bit at 3000 RPM through a bushing; but
please don't do that try it with a router bit at a much higher
RPM. It /will/ hurt you.

You said there wouldn't be any math.

But I didn't say there wouldn't be any arithmatic (-8

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:
....
I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.

....

All I can say is "plan ahead"...

Drill pilot and go slow...after drilling if needed you can epoxy over
any loose area on the inside and let cure. If similar to Soss,
depending on the size, you may just epoxy it in place.

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...
On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.

Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.


I've used a lot of Soss hinges over the years, but at least when I was
using them they were English measurements...

This barrel hinge comes from Rockler, I presume it is euro or
Asian-sourced.
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

Maybe a 14mm end mill used for metal work in a horizontal or vertical
milling machine? I have used them before in a router and drill press. They
leave a flat bottom and have no trouble chewing a clean hole in wood or MDF.

CR

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote:

On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.

Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.

You will be pleasantly surprised. A brad point bit has cutting spikes
at the edges, so it makes a clean cut in wood.

The drawback is they (bradpoints) are only good in wood, or wood like
materials. They don't cut metal.

On 12/19/2004 6:47 AM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:
...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.


...

All I can say is "plan ahead"...

Duh. The only upside of this is it gives an interesting puzzle to solve,
and only one chance to get it right!

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

On 12/19/2004 6:47 AM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:
...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.


...

All I can say is "plan ahead"...

Duh. The only upside of this is it gives an interesting puzzle to solve,
and only one chance to get it right!




Well, I think if you're careful the chip out won't be bad and whatever
does happen can be repaired...

(I know, it's a pita when it isn't as neat as you'd like and, whether
anybody else ever knows, you'll still know--I'm the same way).

On 12/19/2004 7:11 AM CR wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...

On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:


"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.


Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.



I've used a lot of Soss hinges over the years, but at least when I was
using them they were English measurements...

This barrel hinge comes from Rockler, I presume it is euro or

Asian-sourced.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR


Maybe a 14mm end mill used for metal work in a horizontal or vertical
milling machine? I have used them before in a router and drill press. They
leave a flat bottom and have no trouble chewing a clean hole in wood or MDF.

Excellent idea! My favorite vendor for parts mechanical is McMaster-Carr
(www.mcmaster.com) and they don't appear to have end mills with 1/4''
shanks -- only 3/8ths and larger (except for a few odd 3/16ths
offerings). Any machinists reading this NG?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

New male birth control pill! Put it in your shoe and it makes you limp.
------------------------------------

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

On 12/19/2004 7:11 AM CR wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...

On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:


"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.


Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.



I've used a lot of Soss hinges over the years, but at least when I was
using them they were English measurements...

This barrel hinge comes from Rockler, I presume it is euro or

Asian-sourced.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR


Maybe a 14mm end mill used for metal work in a horizontal or vertical
milling machine? I have used them before in a router and drill press. They
leave a flat bottom and have no trouble chewing a clean hole in wood or MDF.

Excellent idea! My favorite vendor for parts mechanical is McMaster-Carr
(www.mcmaster.com) and they don't appear to have end mills with 1/4''
shanks -- only 3/8ths and larger (except for a few odd 3/16ths
offerings). Any machinists reading this NG?


It'll work in the drill as is, of course...you could have a machinist
turn a shank--there's the excuse for that small bench top lathe you've
being eyeing...

On 12/19/2004 8:32 AM John Hines wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote:


On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:


"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.


Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.


You will be pleasantly surprised. A brad point bit has cutting spikes
at the edges, so it makes a clean cut in wood.

I will perform a series of high-controlled scientific tests. Lab coats,
clipboards, Coke-bottle bottom goggles. See how that puppy works.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

....
I will perform a series of high-controlled scientific tests. Lab coats,
clipboards, Coke-bottle bottom goggles. See how that puppy works.

Assistant Igor?

Should be no problem, I agree...

On 12/19/2004 9:29 AM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

On 12/19/2004 7:11 AM CR wrote:


"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
j.michael.elliottAT@REMOVETHEOBVIOUSadelphiaDO T.net wrote in message
...


On 12/18/2004 6:08 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:



"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

Go back to the template idea...make one from either hardwood or a piece
of angle if you have it (since you said you have a drill press, this
should be easy). Go with a twist or Forstner bit (although if you make
a pilot hole first, a twist drill bit should be ok). To
minimize/eliminate the tearout, clamp a piece of hardwood or flat iron
on each side...

I have only access to the side /inside/ the medicine cabinet. The other
side is buried behind the plaster wall.



Whether there is a 14 mm router bit I don't know, I've not researched
metric sizes, but if it is actually a 14 mm hole required by the hinge,
there has to be a corresponding tool...

Well, I've a 14mm brad point bit coming from Lee Valley, but I expect it
will tear out like a twist drill.




I've used a lot of Soss hinges over the years, but at least when I was
using them they were English measurements...

This barrel hinge comes from Rockler, I presume it is euro or

Asian-sourced.


--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR


Maybe a 14mm end mill used for metal work in a horizontal or vertical
milling machine? I have used them before in a router and drill press. They
leave a flat bottom and have no trouble chewing a clean hole in wood or MDF.

Excellent idea! My favorite vendor for parts mechanical is McMaster-Carr
(www.mcmaster.com) and they don't appear to have end mills with 1/4''
shanks -- only 3/8ths and larger (except for a few odd 3/16ths
offerings). Any machinists reading this NG?



It'll work in the drill as is, of course...you could have a machinist
turn a shank--there's the excuse for that small bench top lathe you've
being eyeing...

Right -- I was thinking of chucking it into the plunge router, since
that thing has pretty much all the parts required to A. prop the router
shaft at right angles to the work piece, B. a means to moosh it into the
work piece, and C. a thingy to stop the moosh action when the tool has
delved deeply enough into the work piece.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
------------------------------------
Today's Deep Thought:

Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the
earth's surface relatively to other matter; second, telling other people to
do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill-paid, the second is pleasant
and highly paid.
-- Bertrand Russell
------------------------------------

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

....I've not had too much success w/ the end mill in wood, personally so
have pretty much abandoned...perhaps there are others more suited
now...the high rpm of the router would worry me...you can, obviously,
try it first, of course...

If, otoh, it does the job in a scrap piece, then seems easiest...

But, you really ought to tell significant other you simply must have
that lathe in order to finish...

On 12/19/2004 1:51 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

...I've not had too much success w/ the end mill in wood, personally so
have pretty much abandoned...perhaps there are others more suited
now...the high rpm of the router would worry me...you can, obviously,
try it first, of course...

If, otoh, it does the job in a scrap piece, then seems easiest...

But, you really ought to tell significant other you simply must have
that lathe in order to finish...

Hm. You speak words of wisdom.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...
On 12/19/2004 1:51 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

...I've not had too much success w/ the end mill in wood, personally so
have pretty much abandoned...perhaps there are others more suited
now...the high rpm of the router would worry me...you can, obviously,
try it first, of course...

If, otoh, it does the job in a scrap piece, then seems easiest...

But, you really ought to tell significant other you simply must have
that lathe in order to finish...

Hm. You speak words of wisdom.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR

Didn't think about the 14mm and your only having a 1/4" collet. Mine has a
1/2" collet but that wouldn't accept a 14mm either, another brilliant idea
blown to hell.

CR

On 12/20/2004 3:13 PM CR wrote:

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
et wrote in message
...

On 12/19/2004 1:51 PM Duane Bozarth wrote:


"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote:

...I've not had too much success w/ the end mill in wood, personally so
have pretty much abandoned...perhaps there are others more suited
now...the high rpm of the router would worry me...you can, obviously,
try it first, of course...

If, otoh, it does the job in a scrap piece, then seems easiest...

But, you really ought to tell significant other you simply must have
that lathe in order to finish...

Hm. You speak words of wisdom.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR


Didn't think about the 14mm and your only having a 1/4" collet. Mine has a
1/2" collet but that wouldn't accept a 14mm either, another brilliant idea
blown to hell.

Yeah -- what is that about the susceptibility of brilliant ideas to
hell-bound explosions, anyway?

--
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westphalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR