Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!

Mark and Kim Smith wrote in
:

Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!


I did a cabinet pretty much like that for some friends this last summer,
when I had some down time. Single oven, with microwave above it, and
cabinets above and below. Sliding tray for the bottom one.

Go to the web site for the oven manufacturer, and get the installation
specification sheet for clearances and support requirements, and use those
as minimums. And consider how and where the power feeds will run, before
you start horsing the oven into place. It's a whole lot easier to make
those allowances early.

Have fun with this.

Patriarch

snip

Go to the web site for the oven manufacturer, and get the installation
specification sheet for clearances and support requirements, and use those
as minimums. And consider how and where the power feeds will run, before
you start horsing the oven into place. It's a whole lot easier to make
those allowances early.

Have fun with this.

Patriarch



Thanks Patriarch! The installation and operators manual came with it.
I think this oven was installed but never used and immediately
uninstalled. As for the power requirements, I have no problems with
that. I did post an inquiry at alt.home.repair about it, though. And
they are spelled out in the installation manual. So the tray idea works
well?? Less strain on the back?? I will be having fun with this as
"Dad" (me) is the one that makes cookies for everyone come christmas
time! One year I made everybody pine pickup trucks to "haul" them in
and the next year, collapsible baskets in the "belly" of a snowman.
(Heck, if my wife isn't going to use the scrollsaw I bought her, I sure
will!) Thanks again!!

"Mark and Kim Smith" wrote in message
...
Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!

Ebay double oven? You'll regret it. Go get a new Viking. As the saying goes,
buy once cry once.

j/k - I couldn't resist.

Jay

Hi Mark & KIm,

If I understand correctly, you have not yet purchased the ovens.
If this is the case, I would not build anything until you have the oven
on sight - usually the specs will tell you this.

Second, I would not ever switch from gas back to electric having just
done the reverse about a year ago.

In any case, good luck with your renovation - ours took about 4 months,
but was well worth it!

Lou

P.S. You have more patience than me in holding on to that oak ply
for 9 years - I think that it is yours simply based on storage costs!

In article , Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:

Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!

FriscoSoxFan wrote:

snip


Ebay double oven? You'll regret it. Go get a new Viking. As the saying goes,
buy once cry once.

j/k - I couldn't resist.

Jay





Ha! I've already temporarily hooked it up and used it. Works like a
champ!! Electronic and everything!! Neat bells and whistles! Of
course, it's probably not a good idea to bake in the garage.......er shop!

Hi Lou,

Nope, I already have it. After using gas for some time, I thought I
would try electric. I did a bit of research. My folks have an electric
double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas?? Mark

loutent wrote:

Hi Mark & KIm,

If I understand correctly, you have not yet purchased the ovens.
If this is the case, I would not build anything until you have the oven
on sight - usually the specs will tell you this.

Second, I would not ever switch from gas back to electric having just
done the reverse about a year ago.

In any case, good luck with your renovation - ours took about 4 months,
but was well worth it!

Lou

P.S. You have more patience than me in holding on to that oak ply
for 9 years - I think that it is yours simply based on storage costs!

In article , Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:



Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!

In article ,
Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
Hi Lou,

Nope, I already have it. After using gas for some time, I thought I
would try electric. I did a bit of research. My folks have an electric
double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas?? Mark

Both have advantages. And disadvantages. grin

Gas reacts quicker to setting changes. Gets hot faster, cools down quicker.
And you can _see_ when the burner is on. And adjust the setting 'by eye'.

Electric, on the other hand is _far_ 'cleaner'. And, obviously, the risk
of a 'slightly opened' not ignited burner valve isn't an issue with electric.

A gas flame burns at a constant temperature. You vary the amount of heat
that is transferred to the item being cooked, by varying the size of the
flame area.

An electric burner is more-or-less constant in size. You vary the temperature
of the burner, to vary the amount of heat transferred to the item being cooked.

loutent wrote:

Hi Mark & KIm,

If I understand correctly, you have not yet purchased the ovens.
If this is the case, I would not build anything until you have the oven
on sight - usually the specs will tell you this.

Second, I would not ever switch from gas back to electric having just
done the reverse about a year ago.

In any case, good luck with your renovation - ours took about 4 months,
but was well worth it!

Lou

P.S. You have more patience than me in holding on to that oak ply
for 9 years - I think that it is yours simply based on storage costs!

In article , Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:



Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!

Mark and Kim Smith wrote in
:

snip

Go to the web site for the oven manufacturer, and get the installation
specification sheet for clearances and support requirements, and use
those as minimums. And consider how and where the power feeds will
run, before you start horsing the oven into place. It's a whole lot
easier to make those allowances early.

Have fun with this.

Patriarch



Thanks Patriarch! The installation and operators manual came with it.
I think this oven was installed but never used and immediately
uninstalled. As for the power requirements, I have no problems with
that. I did post an inquiry at alt.home.repair about it, though. And
they are spelled out in the installation manual. So the tray idea
works well?? Less strain on the back?? I will be having fun with
this as "Dad" (me) is the one that makes cookies for everyone come
christmas time! One year I made everybody pine pickup trucks to
"haul" them in and the next year, collapsible baskets in the "belly"
of a snowman. (Heck, if my wife isn't going to use the scrollsaw I
bought her, I sure will!) Thanks again!!


I did this one as a favor for some good kids who just got married in the
last year. She kind of waved her hand at the kitchen, told her new husband
what was needed, and left with a bunch of school kids for Egypt for the
summer. !!! The trays were exactly what she wanted. When she returned, I
built 5 more of them, and her father-in-law installed them.

As the chief cookie baker of my generation, I can tell you that lower
trays, in place of shelves, makes for much better use of available space.
And, if it can keep LOML from demanding a kitchen bump-out, it will save
tens of thousands of dollars from being expended on a waste of space.

I got Accuride slides, full extension, 100 lb capacity. Available at your
favorite supplier. Well worth the few dollars they cost. Build your own
jig, but pay what it costs to get the self-centering Vix bit. As one of
the Cabal said recently, there's a place in heaven for Mr. Vix.

Patriarch

My folks have an
electric double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas??
Mark

Both have advantages. And disadvantages. grin

Gas reacts quicker to setting changes. Gets hot faster, cools down
quicker. And you can _see_ when the burner is on. And adjust the
setting 'by eye'.

Electric, on the other hand is _far_ 'cleaner'. And, obviously, the
risk of a 'slightly opened' not ignited burner valve isn't an issue
with electric.

A gas flame burns at a constant temperature. You vary the amount of
heat that is transferred to the item being cooked, by varying the size
of the flame area.

An electric burner is more-or-less constant in size. You vary the
temperature of the burner, to vary the amount of heat transferred to
the item being cooked.

All of which, while true, seems far more important for the cooktop than for
the oven, where baking is concerned. I'd hesitate not at all to use an
electric OVEN. As for cooking with gas, however, there's a reason that was
a saying in your mother's day!

Patriarch

patriarch wrote:

Mark and Kim Smith wrote in
:



snip



Go to the web site for the oven manufacturer, and get the installation
specification sheet for clearances and support requirements, and use
those as minimums. And consider how and where the power feeds will
run, before you start horsing the oven into place. It's a whole lot
easier to make those allowances early.

Have fun with this.

Patriarch




Thanks Patriarch! The installation and operators manual came with it.
I think this oven was installed but never used and immediately
uninstalled. As for the power requirements, I have no problems with
that. I did post an inquiry at alt.home.repair about it, though. And
they are spelled out in the installation manual. So the tray idea
works well?? Less strain on the back?? I will be having fun with
this as "Dad" (me) is the one that makes cookies for everyone come
christmas time! One year I made everybody pine pickup trucks to
"haul" them in and the next year, collapsible baskets in the "belly"
of a snowman. (Heck, if my wife isn't going to use the scrollsaw I
bought her, I sure will!) Thanks again!!




I did this one as a favor for some good kids who just got married in the
last year. She kind of waved her hand at the kitchen, told her new husband
what was needed, and left with a bunch of school kids for Egypt for the
summer. !!! The trays were exactly what she wanted. When she returned, I
built 5 more of them, and her father-in-law installed them.

As the chief cookie baker of my generation, I can tell you that lower
trays, in place of shelves, makes for much better use of available space.
And, if it can keep LOML from demanding a kitchen bump-out, it will save
tens of thousands of dollars from being expended on a waste of space.

I got Accuride slides, full extension, 100 lb capacity. Available at your
favorite supplier. Well worth the few dollars they cost. Build your own
jig, but pay what it costs to get the self-centering Vix bit. As one of
the Cabal said recently, there's a place in heaven for Mr. Vix.

Patriarch



Oh yes! I got Vix bits the first time I ever did serious cabinet
hinges. Been glad about them ever since! Thanks for the Accuride tip!!

On 02 Dec 2004 22:31:22 EST, Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:

|Hi Lou,
|
| Nope, I already have it. After using gas for some time, I thought I
|would try electric. I did a bit of research. My folks have an electric
|double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas?? Mark


I understand that pro cooks prefer electric ovens and gas ranges.

I believe the preference is electric for ovens (more even heating is
one of the advantages, though gas ovens may be catching up), and gas
for the cooktop (gas is better to cook with - no delay for warm up,
etc.).

W/regards to the cabinet, sorry if this is obvious, but don't build an
8' tall unit in one piece unless your ceilings are taller than 8'.
You won't be able to lift it into place w/out hitting the ceiling as
you lift/rotate it up.

Renata

On 02 Dec 2004 22:31:22 EST, Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:

Hi Lou,

Nope, I already have it. After using gas for some time, I thought I
would try electric. I did a bit of research. My folks have an electric
double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas?? Mark

loutent wrote:

Hi Mark & KIm,

If I understand correctly, you have not yet purchased the ovens.
If this is the case, I would not build anything until you have the oven
on sight - usually the specs will tell you this.

Second, I would not ever switch from gas back to electric having just
done the reverse about a year ago.

In any case, good luck with your renovation - ours took about 4 months,
but was well worth it!

Lou

P.S. You have more patience than me in holding on to that oak ply
for 9 years - I think that it is yours simply based on storage costs!

In article , Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:



Okay, I've been putting this off because it will be a major job and I
have other projects to finish. But my kitchen needs a remodel. Lately,
my little gas oven has been ****ing me of. It's old and time for it to
go. I found a killer deal on eBay for an almost new electric double
oven. Plus, about 10+ years ago, a fella left me a couple of sheets of
3/4" oak ply. He wanted a cabinet built and wanted me to show him how
to do it ( plus use my tools.) Heard from him a year or so after that
saying he wanted his wood. I said come and get it. Nine years later, I
think I'll use it. Anyway, long story short, at the moment, the bottom
part of this cabinet, under the oven, will be a slide out tray ( ball
bearing sliders ) with dividers where my wife and I can store cookie
sheets, racks and etc. on their side. Suggestions on alternatives?
When I did this for my parents, the bottom section was a door with
dividers inside where you could slide in cookie sheets and racks.
Meaning you still have to bend over some to look in there. I figured,
with a slide out tray, it would be easier on the back. The portion
above the oven will be a regular door for storage. Cabinet will go from
floor to ceiling ( 8'). Any new ideas out there that I haven't seen
yet?? TIA! BTW, the rest of the cabinets will have to wait for the
kitchen project to begin although I'm sure the oven cabinet will be a
catalyst!

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 09:44:41 -0500, Renata wrote:
I believe the preference is electric for ovens (more even heating is
one of the advantages, though gas ovens may be catching up), and gas
for the cooktop (gas is better to cook with - no delay for warm up,
etc.).


Electric is DRY, gas is slightly moist. They give different results for
baking. SWMBO's preference is for electric, and as we've no gas
service, that's not so bad a thing.

Our kitchen redo has DEEP oven & fridge cabinets with only a door.
After a few months of access to only the front few inches sliding
trays were built for the deep cabinets and we both are very pleased
and DON'T want to go back. Things we used to see once a year if that
are seen much more frequently now. Full extension slides are a must!

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 22:19:50 GMT, patriarch
wrote:

I did a cabinet pretty much like that for some friends this last summer,
when I had some down time. Single oven, with microwave above it, and
cabinets above and below. Sliding tray for the bottom one.

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
On 02 Dec 2004 22:31:22 EST, Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:

|Hi Lou,
|
| Nope, I already have it. After using gas for some time, I thought I
|would try electric. I did a bit of research. My folks have an electric
|double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas?? Mark


I understand that pro cooks prefer electric ovens and gas ranges.

I've installed what are known as "dual fuel" stoves in the last two houses
I've built. Gas stove top, electric oven (usually two ovens, one that will
also double as a convection oven) ... they are a big selling point.

As the longtime cook of the family, it's also my personal preference.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

In article ,
patriarch patriarch wrote:
My folks have an
electric double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas??
Mark

Both have advantages. And disadvantages. grin

Gas reacts quicker to setting changes. Gets hot faster, cools down
quicker. And you can _see_ when the burner is on. And adjust the
setting 'by eye'.

Electric, on the other hand is _far_ 'cleaner'. And, obviously, the
risk of a 'slightly opened' not ignited burner valve isn't an issue
with electric.

A gas flame burns at a constant temperature. You vary the amount of
heat that is transferred to the item being cooked, by varying the size
of the flame area.

An electric burner is more-or-less constant in size. You vary the
temperature of the burner, to vary the amount of heat transferred to
the item being cooked.

All of which, while true, seems far more important for the cooktop than for
the oven, where baking is concerned. I'd hesitate not at all to use an
electric OVEN. As for cooking with gas, however, there's a reason that was
a saying in your mother's day!

The saying about 'cooking with gas' is relative to a _wood-fired_ appliance.
There is =no= doubt that gas is the superior alternative, in *that* two-way
comparison.

Gas vs. Electric is almost invariably a matter of _personal_ preference.

Electric _is_ safer -- e.g., you can't commit suicide by sticking your head
in an electric oven, with the starter disabled. There's no risk of CO
poisoning the entire household with a mal-adjusted burner. Or the issue
of a 'not quite off' valve (burner, or oven). I don't there's ever been
a home explosion that has been traced to a faulty _electric_ stove. grin.

Electric _is_ cleaner -- Gas, particularly the *un-vented* (i.e., no 'range
hood') stove, is simply *terrible* in regard to the amount of 'crud' that
collects on the walls/ceiling near the appliance. Some part is directly
combustion by-products, other parts come from what is being cooked, and 'ride
along' on the water-vapor (primarily) combustion by-product.

OTOH, the maximum heat output from a gas burner _is_ typically considerably
higher than an electric burner. This means that you can get 'big things'
"up to temperature" considerably faster on a gas stove. This is the primary
reason that 'production' kitchens use gas almost exclusively. At the
'consumer'/'household' scale, the performance difference is a whole lot
_less_ noticeable.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:17:07 +0000, Wes Stewart
spake the words:

On 02 Dec 2004 22:31:22 EST, Mark and Kim Smith
wrote:

|Hi Lou,
|
| Nope, I already have it. After using gas for some time, I thought I
|would try electric. I did a bit of research. My folks have an electric
|double oven and are happy with it. Why do you prefer gas?? Mark

I understand that pro cooks prefer electric ovens and gas ranges.

Having been my own cook for over 30 years now, I have used both gas
and electric ranges. I have a brand new (now going on 3 years old)
ceramic-topped electric which is OK. I much preferred the old DeVille
gas range from the 1930s, with no reservations whatsoever.

I've never seen a chef show produced on an electric stove and don't
expect to ever hear a chef say they prefer an electric over gas. Oops,
I missed the oven vs. range portion there. I don't really find much
difference between the two in the oven portion, just the range, though
a gas over heats more quickly. Gas is faster all the way around.

Gas is instant heat, extremely variable in the range from bare simmer
to VAPORIZE. Yes, it is slightly messier and requires ventilation,
but those points are very easy to put up with. Most stoves require
ventilation and, at most, an hour a month keeps a gas stove in good
order. Also, electric stovetops stay hot enough to burn you for a lot
longer than gas stoves do.

Gas allows me to quickly brown the outside of an omelet while leavng
the inside moist and fluffy. My new, efficient electric takes just
about twice as long to do a similar task, but it's not quite as nice
as a flamed omelet. On that dish, I'm an expert. I've cooked and
served over 1,000 of them to myself and others. One of my secrets to
the lightest, fluffiest, most flavorful omelet in the world is to use
a bit of coconut milk (not the light/lowfat stuff, real, 1st press
coconut milk) in the mix instead of cow's milk.

Sign me: Gas Lover.


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On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 11:44:00 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote some good points until:
[snip]

|Gas allows me to quickly brown the outside of an omelet while leavng
|the inside moist and fluffy.

You brown the outside of my wife's omelet and you'll be eating it [g].