Well, I thought I was going to witness one this morning at the Rockler sale.
I was #2 at the store around 6am. The doors open at 7a.m. Hmmm. Nobody's
interested in those K-body clamp sets? Well at 6:40, the laggards start
showing up. We peek in the window and count - 7 sets available. I see
what's going to happen, so I took a poll. Out of the first 8 people in
line, 5 of them are there to buy a total of 7 clamp sets. We have a
gentleman's agreement that those seven sets are spoken for and everyone's
happy.

At 6:55, the manager walks to the front of the store with keys in hand. He
cracks the door and says "no running", then swings it wide open. Wouldn't
you know it? Some guy at the back of the line somehow sneaks through and
grabs a clamp set. One of our gentleman looks around stunned and said "Hey
what happened to my clamp set - I was one of the first one's here". We
identify the sneaky guy and they proceed to argue. I jump in and support
our gentleman. Mr. Sneaky than says one of the guys that got two sets
should give up one. I'm one of them At this point, I'm a bit flushed and
firmly state "first come, first served, I was hear an hour before you and
tighten my grip on the two heavy clamp sets that are killing the buldging
disks in my spine".

Was it worth it? I don't know. I think I'm kind of mad at Rockler about
doing this kind of sale. They've been splashing email for two weeks now
about all these great sales. I even called the store to ask about available
quanitities and they said they had been unloading 3 trucks a day for a week.
It makes a few people happy and a whole lot of people mad. I got up at 5am,
drove 15 miles and paid $3.00 in tolls to save about $80 on the street price
for some clamps. It was barely worth it. I think I'll pass next time
(yeah, right).

Bob

There isn't a Rockler near me, so I wasn't tempted, but after looking at the
"mass mechants" ads for after Thanksgiving sales, it looked like they were
getting away from that kind of thing also. I know some people were injured in
a Walmart last year. There were still deals, but I think they were less of a
bargain, but quanitities were larger. It makes more sense too make a lot of
people feel like they got a deal than having a few people think they got a
"steal".

Your first encounter with pointy elbows?

UA100

"Bob" wrote in message

Was it worth it?

Well since you asked ... personally, I would've kept my participation in
such a disgusting display of misplaced priorities to myself.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:26:38 GMT, "Bob"
wrote:

Well, I thought I was going to witness one this morning at the Rockler sale.
I was #2 at the store around 6am. The doors open at 7a.m. Hmmm. Nobody's
interested in those K-body clamp sets? Well at 6:40, the laggards start
showing up. We peek in the window and count - 7 sets available. I see
what's going to happen, so I took a poll. Out of the first 8 people in
line, 5 of them are there to buy a total of 7 clamp sets. We have a
gentleman's agreement that those seven sets are spoken for and everyone's
happy. ....

I was one of 5 waiting this morning and all of us headed for the
clamp section. People started to look around for them. I didn't
bother, I went and asked a clerk instead. Turns out they were
in the front of the store. So I headed there, followed by every-
one else. There were 5 sets. I was going to get two, grabbed
one and as I reached for the second guilt came over me:
geez, I'm going to stiff a guy this way. So I let it go. Then the
second guy beind me grabs two....

Was it worth it? I don't know. I think I'm kind of mad at Rockler about
doing this kind of sale.

I agree with you: it's misleading - only 5 sets in a store - and
demeaning. There are sales like this, with extremely limited
quantitites, all over the place now. To me it shows a basic
contempt for people, turning the process into an ugly game.

"GregP" wrote in message

To me it shows a basic
contempt for people, turning the process into an ugly game.

How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Swingman responds:

"GregP" wrote in message

To me it shows a basic
contempt for people, turning the process into an ugly game.

How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.

Yes. I have always wondered about the psychological make-up of those who
participate in sales that create panic and nastiness. Is there really anything
out there that's worth making that big an ass of yourself to get?

They're saving what, $20 on a $40 clamp?

Jeez. I could understand it if it were an antique Mercedes Gull Wing to the
first guy through the door with a $50 bill in his hand, but for a 20 or 30 or
40 or even 200 buck savings, it's ludicrous.
And it happens every single year, time after time, place after place.

Blessed be the children. Let them come unto me.

And they do.

Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken

"patriarch astDOTnet" patriarch wrote in message
...

More's the pity, since Amazon is said to be matching the price on the kit,
free shipping, no sales tax, sleep in if you need to.

Amazon is selling the kit at $124.99. Rockler had it for $99.99. Even with
sales tax, its still much cheaper.

Bob

You can tell it's Christmas!

Robert Galloway wrote in
:

Spend a lot of time reading your clamps do you? :-)

bob g.

I happened to record one of his shows, because David Marks was to be a
guest. It reminded me of why I stopped watching.

The GS PC2s are pretty good clamps - easily in the same league with the
KBodies and the Cabinet Masters. Just seems a shame to market them in such
a manner.

Patriarch

Bob wrote:

We peek in the window and count - 7 sets available. I see
what's going to happen, so I took a poll. Out of the first 8 people in
line, 5 of them are there to buy a total of 7 clamp sets. We have a
gentleman's agreement that those seven sets are spoken for and everyone's
happy.

At 6:55, the manager walks to the front of the store with keys in hand.
He
cracks the door and says "no running", then swings it wide open. Wouldn't
you know it? Some guy at the back of the line somehow sneaks through and
grabs a clamp set. One of our gentleman looks around stunned and said
"Hey
what happened to my clamp set - I was one of the first one's here".


See the other thread about the clamps. Perhaps they should have said "one
per customer" to spread out the good will to as many as possible. If the
gentlemen were truly gentlemen, they would not be fighting over getting two
sets and if someone can get from the back of the line to the goodies first,
well good for them. Perfectly legal.

One of the Boston department stores has a wedding dress sale once a year.
$1000 dresses for $100. People have been injured in the stampede. Saving
money is a good thing, but charging a store like animals is just not worth
in, IMO. Many of these black Friday sales are downright dangerous and
people get trampled and injured.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..
:
: Bob wrote:
:
: We peek in the window and count - 7 sets available. I see
: what's going to happen, so I took a poll. Out of the first 8 people in
: line, 5 of them are there to buy a total of 7 clamp sets. We have a
: gentleman's agreement that those seven sets are spoken for and
everyone's
: happy.
:
: At 6:55, the manager walks to the front of the store with keys in hand.
: He
: cracks the door and says "no running", then swings it wide open.
Wouldn't
: you know it? Some guy at the back of the line somehow sneaks through
and
: grabs a clamp set. One of our gentleman looks around stunned and said
: "Hey
: what happened to my clamp set - I was one of the first one's here".
:
:
: See the other thread about the clamps. Perhaps they should have said
"one
: per customer" to spread out the good will to as many as possible. If the
: gentlemen were truly gentlemen, they would not be fighting over getting
two
: sets and if someone can get from the back of the line to the goodies
first,
: well good for them. Perfectly legal.
:
: One of the Boston department stores has a wedding dress sale once a year.
: $1000 dresses for $100. People have been injured in the stampede.
Saving
: money is a good thing, but charging a store like animals is just not
worth
: in, IMO. Many of these black Friday sales are downright dangerous and
: people get trampled and injured.
: Ed
:
But only seven clamps for the sale? Sounds like Rockler was expecting no
crowd at all or just what were they expecting?

Josie

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:26:38 GMT, "Bob"
wrote:

Well, I thought I was going to witness one this morning at the Rockler sale.
I was #2 at the store around 6am. The doors open at 7a.m. Hmmm. Nobody's
interested in those K-body clamp sets? Well at 6:40, the laggards start
showing up. We peek in the window and count - 7 sets available. I see
what's going to happen, so I took a poll. Out of the first 8 people in
line, 5 of them are there to buy a total of 7 clamp sets. We have a
gentleman's agreement that those seven sets are spoken for and everyone's
happy.

At 6:55, the manager walks to the front of the store with keys in hand. He
cracks the door and says "no running", then swings it wide open. Wouldn't
you know it? Some guy at the back of the line somehow sneaks through and
grabs a clamp set. One of our gentleman looks around stunned and said "Hey
what happened to my clamp set - I was one of the first one's here". We
identify the sneaky guy and they proceed to argue. I jump in and support
our gentleman. Mr. Sneaky than says one of the guys that got two sets
should give up one. I'm one of them At this point, I'm a bit flushed and
firmly state "first come, first served, I was hear an hour before you and
tighten my grip on the two heavy clamp sets that are killing the buldging
disks in my spine".

Was it worth it? I don't know. I think I'm kind of mad at Rockler about
doing this kind of sale. They've been splashing email for two weeks now
about all these great sales. I even called the store to ask about available
quanitities and they said they had been unloading 3 trucks a day for a week.
It makes a few people happy and a whole lot of people mad. I got up at 5am,
drove 15 miles and paid $3.00 in tolls to save about $80 on the street price
for some clamps. It was barely worth it. I think I'll pass next time
(yeah, right).

I hate it when they do that crap! I went to Farm & Fleet, and they at
least had the decency to have sufficient numbers of their sale items.
It was pretty amusing watching pallet after pallet of Shop Vacs
brought out and sold out within minutes, but they still had a couple
after an hour or two.

Bob


Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

More's the pity, since Amazon is said to be matching the price on the kit,
free shipping, no sales tax, sleep in if you need to.

Amazon is selling the kit at $124.99. Rockler had it for $99.99. Even with
sales tax, its still much cheaper.

Rockler's not cheaper once you factor in the acid reflux and all the
driving and parking and standing in line and PAIN IN THE ARSE from
being suckered. What's it worth NOT to support that type of warped
marketing? $25 buys a forgettable soup lunch for two at Olive Garden.
In exchange, Amazon.com sends it right to your door and no playing
keepaway with "sale" products that are advertised but mythical.

In article ,
firstjois wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
:
: Bob wrote:
:
: We peek in the window and count - 7 sets available. I see
: what's going to happen, so I took a poll. Out of the first 8 people in
: line, 5 of them are there to buy a total of 7 clamp sets. We have a
: gentleman's agreement that those seven sets are spoken for and
everyone's
: happy.
:
: At 6:55, the manager walks to the front of the store with keys in hand.
: He
: cracks the door and says "no running", then swings it wide open.
Wouldn't
: you know it? Some guy at the back of the line somehow sneaks through
and
: grabs a clamp set. One of our gentleman looks around stunned and said
: "Hey
: what happened to my clamp set - I was one of the first one's here".
:
:
: See the other thread about the clamps. Perhaps they should have said
"one
: per customer" to spread out the good will to as many as possible. If the
: gentlemen were truly gentlemen, they would not be fighting over getting
two
: sets and if someone can get from the back of the line to the goodies
first,
: well good for them. Perfectly legal.
:
: One of the Boston department stores has a wedding dress sale once a year.
: $1000 dresses for $100. People have been injured in the stampede.
Saving
: money is a good thing, but charging a store like animals is just not
worth
: in, IMO. Many of these black Friday sales are downright dangerous and
: people get trampled and injured.
: Ed
:
But only seven clamps for the sale? Sounds like Rockler was expecting no
crowd at all or just what were they expecting?

They were expecting *exactly* what they got -- a large crowd of people
waiting at the door. grin

It's called a "loss leader" -- you advertise one product that you are
selling _at_a_loss_ for the express purpose of luring people *into* the
store, where they will look around and buy _other_ stuff -- either at the
time, or they'll come back later to get it.

Grocery stores are particularly notorious for this tactic. If you have
a number of different chains within 'convenient' distance, *and* reasonable
storage capacity at home, you can make out like a _bandit_ by buying -only-
the "sale" merchandise. Several of the stores I shop at, the registers
provide a 'total' savings summary -- both, how much $ you saved, and the
percentage (based on 'full price' for everything) that you saved. I,
almost invariably show savings percentages in excess of 25%, usually
close to 1/3, and occasionally over 40%. I figure I _always_ cost them
money. _Before_ I find the inevitable computer pricing errors. OTOH,
store management _does_ find me 'useful' on occasion -- one day one of
the customers was griping to the mgr about how _small_ the savings were
that she got, from using the 'store card'. I happened to be standing there,
as he was explaining that the savings varied, depending on _what_ you bought,
and he asked me if he could 'borrow' _my_ receipt, to illustrate -- I had
'only _38%_ savings that day. *grin*

Comment, it is _silly_ to have to play these games -- I much prefer a store
that _always_ prices *everything* at the 'minimum required markup' for them
to make a fair profit. They don't have to run all those big sale ads, which
saves them money, which translates into lower prices on the shelves. For
*everybody*. *BUT*, if the stores _do_ want to 'play games', the important
thing is to 'understand the rules', and then play to maximize _your_ advantage.
Not the 'dumb way' that the store counts on -- and what _most_ of the world
actually does. The 'proof is in the pudding' -- if everybody (or even 'almost'
everybody) concentrated on buying _just_ the 'sale' items any given week, the
stores would *rapidly* terminate the loss-leader practice. I guess I don't
mind the 'stupidity' of the "rest of the world", all that much -- it makes
*my* bills considerably lower. GRIN

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message

percentage (based on 'full price' for everything) that you saved. I,
almost invariably show savings percentages in excess of 25%, usually
close to 1/3, and occasionally over 40%. I figure I _always_ cost them
money. _Before_ I find the inevitable computer pricing errors.

I went shopping with SWMBO the day before Thanksgiving, something I rarely
do. By the time she got finished with the local grocery chain, she had two
free 15 pound turkeys (to be kept frozen for later use) and had saved $38,
according to the register receipt, on a $150 grocery bill.

She can't cook, but I'll keep her anyway.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..



See the other thread about the clamps. Perhaps they should have said "one
per customer" to spread out the good will to as many as possible. If the
gentlemen were truly gentlemen, they would not be fighting over getting
two
sets and if someone can get from the back of the line to the goodies
first,
well good for them. Perfectly legal.


Agreed. What killed me with the original post was the unmitigated gall of
"taking a poll" and "agreeing that all seven sets were spoken for". As if
anyone else should be bound by the desires of these five people. And the
greed. As pointed out - one of the "gentlemen" felt he need two sets, no
matter that there weren't enough sets there for everyone. Selfish. That's
all this fellow is, and he posts about this as if he was so noble and the
other fellow there to purchase the same clamps was somehow a lesser
individual. Amazing.
--

-Mike-

Agreed. What killed me with the original post was the unmitigated gall of
"taking a poll" and "agreeing that all seven sets were spoken for". As if
anyone else should be bound by the desires of these five people. And the
greed. As pointed out - one of the "gentlemen" felt he need two sets, no
matter that there weren't enough sets there for everyone. Selfish.
That's
all this fellow is, and he posts about this as if he was so noble and the
other fellow there to purchase the same clamps was somehow a lesser
individual. Amazing.
--

-Mike-

And then he wants us to feel sorry for him.
Sad indeed.

-j

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:29:36 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.


So in the example I gave, who "acted like....kindergarten kids ?"

"GregP" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:29:36 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to
act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.


So in the example I gave, who "acted like....kindergarten kids ?"

the second guy?

-j

A Short List Of Life's Greatest Injustices.


Men, women and children in Africa are hacked to death with
machetes.

Young men following orders go to a distant land where they
are shot at. Some return home in a body bag.

Babies are born to mothers who are junkies.

Babies are born with AIDS.

Someone somewhere is being physically abused every minute of
the day.

Some rat ******* got somebody else's Bessy clamps.


OBWW: Bessys? It's right there.

UA100, who will go to the tap, turn it on and pour a glass
full safe and clean water. Later he will curl up in a warm
bed and enjoy a good night's sleep. In the morning he will
travel by private car to a job that he likes and actually
gets paid for...

"GregP" wrote in message
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:29:36 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to
act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.


So in the example I gave, who "acted like....kindergarten kids ?"

Relax, it wasn't you.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:50:21 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

"GregP" wrote in message
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:29:36 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to
act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.


So in the example I gave, who "acted like....kindergarten kids ?"

Relax, it wasn't you.


You're not answering the question.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:01:10 -0800, "J" wrote:

"GregP" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:29:36 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


How about a basic contempt of the immature for each other?

Apparently the biggest mistake the store made is expecting some folks to
act
like adults, instead of kindergarten kids.


So in the example I gave, who "acted like....kindergarten kids ?"

the second guy?


Could be, or maybe "Swingman" just let his usual shotgun blast go
without much behind it.

"GregP" wrote in message
So in the example I gave, who "acted like....kindergarten kids ?"

the second guy?


Could be, or maybe "Swingman" just let his usual shotgun blast go
without much behind it.

With that remark you're starting to sound like maybe you do qualify. Don't
flatter yourself, just go back and read the first post in the thread for the
answer, and then tell me you disagree.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:48:46 -0600, Unisaw A100
wrote:

A Short List Of Life's Greatest Injustices.


Men, women and children in Africa are hacked to death with
machetes.


Some simply for the religious faith to which they ascribe.


Young men following orders go to a distant land where they
are shot at. Some return home in a body bag.


And some folks who have gone to a distant land to help the people rebuild
are taken hostage by those unhappy with such progress and have their heads
cut off.

Babies are born to mothers who are junkies.

Babies are born with AIDS.

Someone somewhere is being physically abused every minute of
the day.

Some rat ******* got somebody else's Bessy clamps.


OBWW: Bessys? It's right there.

UA100, who will go to the tap, turn it on and pour a glass
full safe and clean water. Later he will curl up in a warm
bed and enjoy a good night's sleep. In the morning he will
travel by private car to a job that he likes and actually
gets paid for...


Yeah, that kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?
We've got a lot to be thankful for, sometimes we let the minor annoyances
in life become something completely overwhelming -- maybe because we don't
have real problems that make our very survival an issue.

Mark & Juanita wrote:
maybe because we don't have real problems that make our very survival an issue.


Hmmm? That there looks like the crux of the biscuit.

OBWW: Biscuit? It's right there (looks up).

UA100, still bleeding off the trip-to-phan from
Thanksgiving...

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:59:25 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


With that remark you're starting to sound like maybe you do qualify. Don't
flatter yourself, just go back and read the first post in the thread for the
answer, and then tell me you disagree.


That's not the post you were replying to.

"GregP" wrote in message
"Swingman" wrote:


With that remark you're starting to sound like maybe you do qualify.
Don't
flatter yourself, just go back and read the first post in the thread for
the
answer, and then tell me you disagree.


That's not the post you were replying to.

No ****? That post had disappeared long before I replied. If you're going to
take exception to folks 'tagging on' the last visible post in a thread in
their newsreader, you're in the wrong medium.

My post had nothing to do with you and everything to do with the attitude
evinced in the thread. Your "contempt" remark that was quoted, however,
happened to lead into mine ... so be it.

Sorry you took offense, but none was intended. If you go back and read it,
without guilt, passion, or whatever it is bothering you, you'll see that's
the case. AAMOF, it was directed at the attitude of the hog(s) that followed
you.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 06:28:20 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


Sorry you took offense, but none was intended. If you go back and read it,
without guilt, passion, or whatever it is bothering you, you'll see that's
the case. AAMOF, it was directed at the attitude of the hog(s) that followed
you.


I didn't assume that your comment was directed at
me personally but it's clear that I misunderstood
your post. I apologize.

UA100, who will go to the tap, turn it on and pour a glass
full safe and clean water. Later he will curl up in a warm
bed and enjoy a good night's sleep. In the morning he will
travel by private car to a job that he likes and actually
gets paid for...

Nice way of putting perspective into it- I got a good chuckle from
that one!


Yeah, that kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?
We've got a lot to be thankful for, sometimes we let the minor annoyances
in life become something completely overwhelming -- maybe because we don't
have real problems that make our very survival an issue.

I think that's exactly it. Whether it's something learned or genetic,
it seems like everyone has a default stress level that they stick to
when not in a crisis. Some folks could whistle through a
concentration camp, while others can't bear the idea of a parking
meter eating their dime. Mine's medium-to-high, so I'm not going to
dump on anyone for getting wound up- it's just how some folks are
wired.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

"mbrooks" wrote in message
om...


Rockler's not cheaper once you factor in the acid reflux and all the
driving and parking and standing in line and PAIN IN THE ARSE from
being suckered.

good point, Mr. Brooks.

Bob