I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12

If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.


Buy Bosch for quality and durability

It is obviously made by Bosch, but that does not make it a Bosch product. I
noticed that they have a clear baseplate, where Bosch has an opaque one.
Sure, that might be an improvement, but they might have produced to greater
tolerances, substituted plastic for metal, or who knows what.

Subject

Only one of them is a tool builder.

IMHO, you can't even mention them in the same breath.

Lew

toller wrote:

It is obviously made by Bosch, but that does not make it a Bosch product. I
noticed that they have a clear baseplate, where Bosch has an opaque one.
Sure, that might be an improvement, but they might have produced to greater
tolerances, substituted plastic for metal, or who knows what.

I've often wondered what companies such as Bosch, Delta, etc. do with the parts
that test out of spec and are not used in their own brand products???

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Russ wrote:
I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12

Not to say that the Sears isn't a good tool, but you can't tell if it's
the same from the outside. They can change the internals - use plastic
gears instead of metal, smaller bearings, etc - without you knowing from
the external appearance.
SWMBO bought a famous maker mixer for a 'good' price from the BORG and
it broke two days later. Seems that the ones that the borg carries have
plastic gears to keep the cost down. SAME MODEL NUMBER as the ones you
buy from kitchen specialty stores which cost more. Difference is inside.
This was confirmed by a call to the mfg. Needless to say, she took it
back for a refund and paid the few extra bucks for the real deal.

I just bought an 18V Cordless Skil Brand Drill. When I looked at the
manufacturers plate. It's made by the Robert Bosch Tool Corporation.
Look up the name in a search engine and it will take you to the Bosch
Tool Website. At the top of the page, it's the Robert Bosch Tool
Corp.

Is it an inferior product. That depends. Most large manufacturers
make several grades of tools. A Bosch drill would use a metal
clutch assembly, like a DeWalt. The Skil and hobbyist level tool
would use a high impact plastic for the clutch assembly.

Do I need the reliability of a DeWalt. No. I'm not a contractor.
But I'd have to kill three of these Skil Drills to spend the same
money as I would have for one DeWalt.

To put it simply. I'd take a look at the unit itself, and see if
there are any manufacturers information on the unit. If it's the
Robert Bosch Tool Corpororation or some other big name, I would lean
towards having more confidence of it being a reasonable quality
product, versus some no name company.

Pat






On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:07:19 -0500, "Russ"
wrote:

I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12

SawDust wrote:

I just bought an 18V Cordless Skil Brand Drill. When I looked at the
manufacturers plate. It's made by the Robert Bosch Tool Corporation.
Look up the name in a search engine and it will take you to the Bosch
Tool Website. At the top of the page, it's the Robert Bosch Tool
Corp.

Bosh OWNS Skil. This does not mean that Skil tools are made in the same
plant, or even the same country, as Bosch tools. Nor does it mean that the
tools are manufactured to the same specs, or that they have to meet the
same levels of quality.

"SawDust" wrote in message
...

To put it simply. I'd take a look at the unit itself, and see if
there are any manufacturers information on the unit. If it's the
Robert Bosch Tool Corpororation or some other big name, I would lean
towards having more confidence of it being a reasonable quality
product, versus some no name company.

The comparison is more like Dodge compared to Mercedes Benz. I still have
no confidence in Dodge.

"SawDust" wrote in message
...

I just bought an 18V Cordless Skil Brand Drill. When I looked at the
manufacturers plate. It's made by the Robert Bosch Tool Corporation.
Look up the name in a search engine and it will take you to the Bosch
Tool Website. At the top of the page, it's the Robert Bosch Tool
Corp.

One of the magazines just had an article about tool differences. They showed
the internals of both a Skil and Bosch router. They were very apparant when
you looked at the motor and bearing sizes. As for the Craftsman made by
Bosch, you'd have to take them apart to be sure if they are the same. They
may be, but it is a bit of a crap shoot. For $10, I'll take lkthe Bosch and
be sure. For $40, I'd be tempted to go with the C'man.

The November 2004 issue of Wood reviewed "multi-base router kits" Both the
Craftsman and Bosch were reviewed. The Bosch had the same model number you
referenced but the Craftsman was 26620. Final spec's between the 2 were
identical EXCEPT for: Craftsman had no dust collection provided for either base
even as an accessory and its subbase opening was 1 3/4" versus 2 1/16" for the
Bosch. As a plus the Craftsman had a "through-the table height adjuster" which
the Bosch does not offer. The Bosch had above base dust collection,subbase
centering cone,edge-guide dust collection,edge guide fence,guide bushings and a
height-adjustment extension knob listed as accessories where as the Craftsman
just had guide bushings listed. Prices listed for each: Bosch - 195 smackers
versus 220 for Sears Per the outside inspection the 2 units were virtual
twins except the bottom plate on the Bosch was black and Sears was clear.

I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12

"Russ" wrote in message
...


I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising

I picked up that router kit from Amazon - $191 - this morning.

"Glider Rider" wrote in message
...

Per the outside inspection the 2 units were virtual
twins except the bottom plate on the Bosch was black and Sears was clear.

ROTFLMAO..... did anyone doing the inspection also not notice that the
Craftsman is RED vs. Blue on the Bosch?

I agree 100%. But I'm a lot more comfortable buying a tool if it
has some attachment to a certain manufacturer than a 100% no name from
the far east, that will start smoking the first time you use it.


On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:23:23 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

SawDust wrote:

I just bought an 18V Cordless Skil Brand Drill. When I looked at the
manufacturers plate. It's made by the Robert Bosch Tool Corporation.
Look up the name in a search engine and it will take you to the Bosch
Tool Website. At the top of the page, it's the Robert Bosch Tool
Corp.

Bosh OWNS Skil. This does not mean that Skil tools are made in the same
plant, or even the same country, as Bosch tools. Nor does it mean that the
tools are manufactured to the same specs, or that they have to meet the
same levels of quality.

Russ wrote:
I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12



Remember, Sears has everything built to sell for a certain price,
not necessarily to meet longevity requirements. After all,
they'll be there when you need another one. The commercial tool
stores won't be open for you on a Sunday afternoon:-)
Joe

Color blind Of the 7 routers reviewed, these 2 were given "Top Tool" award
for what its worth.

"Glider Rider" wrote in message
...

Per the outside inspection the 2 units were virtual
twins except the bottom plate on the Bosch was black and Sears was clear.

ROTFLMAO..... did anyone doing the inspection also not notice that the
Craftsman is RED vs. Blue on the Bosch?

Ya true.. But I'd be more confident in the dodge versus the world
famous Russian Lada. Remember those cars.

The whole point being. I'd be more confident with a tool that has
some connection to a big manufacturer, than I would with a no name
tool made by a company in the far east, being sold as an immitation
Makita or DeWalt.

Looking at the manufacturers plate, can give you a good idea of where
it came from. Doesn't mean it's a top of the line tool. But it's a
good starting point when your considering the purchase.

Pat




On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:28:30 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"SawDust" wrote in message
.. .

To put it simply. I'd take a look at the unit itself, and see if
there are any manufacturers information on the unit. If it's the
Robert Bosch Tool Corpororation or some other big name, I would lean
towards having more confidence of it being a reasonable quality
product, versus some no name company.

The comparison is more like Dodge compared to Mercedes Benz. I still have
no confidence in Dodge.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:28:46 -0500, Nova
wrote:

I've often wondered what companies such as Bosch, Delta, etc. do with the parts
that test out of spec

They don't make them. You can't afford to these days - companies that
still operate by making rubbish and "testing out" the non-compliant
stuff went bust some years ago. Modern manufacturing uses techniques
like SPC so that you simply don't make the bad part in the first
place.

There's still waste in a production process, but this is far smaller
than it was twenty years ago and the stream of "out of gauge"
components being rejected at a late inspection stage has almost
vanished.

--
Smert' spamionam

"SawDust" wrote in message
...

Ya true.. But I'd be more confident in the dodge versus the world
famous Russian Lada. Remember those cars.

I do not recall the Russian Lada being affiliated with Mercedes or Dodge.


The whole point being. I'd be more confident with a tool that has
some connection to a big manufacturer, than I would with a no name
tool made by a company in the far east, being sold as an immitation
Makita or DeWalt.

Are you saying that if Hyundai introduced a line of tools you would be
confident in buying that tool? Hyundai is or was at one time one of the
largest manufacturers in the world. And by the same token, you should not
be confident in Delta as some of thieir equipment is manufactured by a no
name facility in the far east. To me the only confidence I have in a large
manufacturing company is its reputation of any one given product that it
manufactures and is known to be a good item and possibily its ability to
supply repair parts. For me, there is only one tool that Skil manufactures
that I would remotely consider purchasing and Skil being owned by Bosch
would have absolutely no influence on that decision.


Looking at the manufacturers plate, can give you a good idea of where
it came from. Doesn't mean it's a top of the line tool. But it's a
good starting point when your considering the purchase.

I guess some would consider it a good starting point if they knew nothing
about that product and or its reputation.

"SawDust" wrote in message
...

I agree 100%. But I'm a lot more comfortable buying a tool if it
has some attachment to a certain manufacturer than a 100% no name from
the far east, that will start smoking the first time you use it.


The first 1617EVS Bosch router that I bought in August of 1998, the same one
that we are talking about here had to be returned because within 5 minutes
of use the on/off switch failed. The dealer exchanged it for another new
one. Again after the first use I was unable to get the bit out of the self
extracting collet. I totally screwed collet and bit off the router as one
unit and returned again to the dealer. We finally managed to get the bit
out of the collet and had to try 2 more new collets before we found one that
would not lock on to the bit. This was not a case of a bad one out of many,
it was a case of poor quality control.

Nova wrote:
toller wrote:


It is obviously made by Bosch, but that does not make it a Bosch product. I
noticed that they have a clear baseplate, where Bosch has an opaque one.
Sure, that might be an improvement, but they might have produced to greater
tolerances, substituted plastic for metal, or who knows what.


I've often wondered what companies such as Bosch, Delta, etc. do with the parts
that test out of spec and are not used in their own brand products???

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


Not sure what they do but I had a buddy worked at the GM battery plant
if Oshawa. The batteries were tested and if they passed they were kept
as Delco batteries but if they failed they were sold to various other
companies to market as their own. How badly it failed determined which
company would buy it. According to him Canadian Tire took the lowest
grade. I can believe it the last one I bought from them lasted 6 months
and shorted internally, of course I was no where near a CTC store and
went to a GM dealer and bought a Delco - it lasted 6 years.

Rick

"mare" lid.com wrote in
message
news:1gnr0x1.u4xhlrp4fza4N%mare*Remove*All*0f*This ...
Leon wrote:

It wasn't a metric collet? I have no problems whatsoever with fixed
bits. And I have three collets.

1/2"


The edges had to be smoothed up so that the collet inside the nut would
move. The collet is suppose to be some what loose and none of these were.

Hey Leon speaking of routers, I seem to remember that you had purchased a
Triton or were about to do so. If you have one how do you like it?
Earl Creel

"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"Glider Rider" wrote in message
...

Per the outside inspection the 2 units were virtual
twins except the bottom plate on the Bosch was black and Sears was clear.

ROTFLMAO..... did anyone doing the inspection also not notice that the
Craftsman is RED vs. Blue on the Bosch?

"Earl Creel" wrote in message
news:k41pd.102228$tU4.3649@okepread06...
Hey Leon speaking of routers, I seem to remember that you had purchased a
Triton or were about to do so. If you have one how do you like it?
Earl Creel


Yes I did get the Triton router. I ended up having to take the first back
as mine had a problem with the switch shutting off when feeding stock
through under a light to moderate load. Contacting Triton revieled that
they had heard of this happening one other time. ;~) One other time?
Anyway the exchange at Woodcraft went smoothly and the new uit has worked
flawlessly. I am very happy with the router and so far, 6 months, it has
worked as advertised. I am not one that likes routers that use a single
wrench to loosen and tighten the collet but in this case with the bit being
accesed above the router table the single wrench method works fine. The
router table holds the router for me. Not having to work under the table
and or remove the router from the table is a BIG plus. Fine tuning depth
works great and rapid depth adjustment works great. I just finished doing
some raised panel doors out of red oak and the router set on the second
lowest speed setting never showed any sign of struggle although I made 4
passes. In fact I do not recall the motor sound changing between free
spinning and working so I suppose the speed controll works well.





"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"Glider Rider" wrote in message
...

Per the outside inspection the 2 units were virtual
twins except the bottom plate on the Bosch was black and Sears was
clear.

ROTFLMAO..... did anyone doing the inspection also not notice that the
Craftsman is RED vs. Blue on the Bosch?

"toller" wrote in message
...
My switch broke also. When I posted about it, a bunch of people said
theirs had also. Apparently it is Bosch's weak point.
I stuck mine in a table with it's own switch, and it has been fine ever
since. The replacement is okay, but I use a handheld so rarely that it
hasn't had much of a test

My 15 year old Bosch 1611 had to be disassembled periodically to clean the
switch out as it too would stop working properly.

In article , "Leon"
wrote:

I would certainly consider a Hyundai. Remember that it has a ten year
guarantee. That is better than almost anyone else.

Dick

Are you saying that if Hyundai introduced a line of tools you would be
confident in buying that tool? Hyundai is or was at one time one of the
largest manufacturers in the world.

In article ,
Joe Gorman wrote:

Remember, Sears has everything built to sell for a certain price,
not necessarily to meet longevity requirements. After all,
they'll be there when you need another one.

They'll be there, but they might have a big red "K" over the door.

--
Hank Gillette

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

They don't make them. You can't afford to these days - companies that
still operate by making rubbish and "testing out" the non-compliant
stuff went bust some years ago. Modern manufacturing uses techniques
like SPC so that you simply don't make the bad part in the first
place.


So the Harbor Freight stuff is made that way on purpose?

--
Hank Gillette

it doesn't matter what the model number is, don't ever buy a craftsman
router.

- louder than anything else
- bits _will_ slip, bet on it
- reliability is iffy
- every add on you might want doesn't fit anything else (unlike, say, PC
routers)

my 1/50th of a buck.

Joe C.

p.s. they make good boat anchors, though

"Russ" wrote in message
...
I am in the market for a plunge/fixed router and have been looking at the
Bosch 1617EVSPK. Today I received a Sears flyer in the mail advertising
their plunge/fixed router. After looking at the pictures and
specifications
the Sears appears to be the same router with their name on it. Is Bosch
making this router for Sears? If so I am going to buy the Sears for it is
on
sale for a good price.
The Sears model # is 1617-12

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:47:57 -0500, Hank Gillette
wrote:



So the Harbor Freight stuff is made that way on purpose?
Yup, all it takes is a relaxed specification.
Bronze bushings vs roller bearings.
Hardening? What's that?
Nylon gears (or worse stamped gears) instead of machined gears.
Fewer armature plates and windings - can save lots of money here -
brushes wear out quicker and the motor is not as smooth running but
what the heck.

Lots of ways to make it cheaper. The really tough thing is to make it
better.

We all vote with our buck (pound for Andy) and, in the end, the
companies that survive will be those who get our vote. The question
is - do you want to have good quality tools in the future? If so you
had better start voting for them now.

TWS

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:44:12 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"SawDust" wrote in message
.. .

I just bought an 18V Cordless Skil Brand Drill. When I looked at the
manufacturers plate. It's made by the Robert Bosch Tool Corporation.
Look up the name in a search engine and it will take you to the Bosch
Tool Website. At the top of the page, it's the Robert Bosch Tool
Corp.

One of the magazines just had an article about tool differences.

Fine Woodworking's 2004 Tools and Shops edition.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:28:46 -0500, Nova
wrote:


I've often wondered what companies such as Bosch, Delta, etc. do with the parts
that test out of spec and are not used in their own brand products???


Cheaper models are designed to be cheaper: it would cost
more money to do it on a parts selection basis.

Thanks Leon, a Triton may show up under the Christmas tree for me. If one
does arrive I will probably try to mount it in my existing router table. Am
thinking I will get an Rousseau table insert or similar to mount it. What
kind of an insert do you have if any?
Earl Creel

"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

Yes I did get the Triton router. I ended up having to take the first back
as mine had a problem with the switch shutting off when feeding stock
through under a light to moderate load. Contacting Triton revieled that
they had heard of this happening one other time. ;~) One other time?
Anyway the exchange at Woodcraft went smoothly and the new uit has worked
flawlessly. I am very happy with the router and so far, 6 months, it has
worked as advertised. I am not one that likes routers that use a single
wrench to loosen and tighten the collet but in this case with the bit
being accesed above the router table the single wrench method works fine.
The router table holds the router for me. Not having to work under the
table and or remove the router from the table is a BIG plus. Fine tuning
depth works great and rapid depth adjustment works great. I just finished
doing some raised panel doors out of red oak and the router set on the
second lowest speed setting never showed any sign of struggle although I
made 4 passes. In fact I do not recall the motor sound changing between
free spinning and working so I suppose the speed controll works well.





"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"Glider Rider" wrote in message
...

Per the outside inspection the 2 units were virtual
twins except the bottom plate on the Bosch was black and Sears was
clear.

ROTFLMAO..... did anyone doing the inspection also not notice that the
Craftsman is RED vs. Blue on the Bosch?

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:47:57 -0500, Hank Gillette
wrote:

So the Harbor Freight stuff is made that way on purpose?

Yes. Extremely high _production_ quality of a very poor specification.
You should see the factory - it's probably gorgeous.

Modern "rubbish tools" are some of the best-made engineering ever
produced. If they were made to the machining standards of a WW2
Rolls-Royce Merlin, they'd simply fall apart. There was a time when
things were well designed, cost was ignored, and hand-fitting to
assemble them was accepted (just look at the process for fitting the
reduction gears on a Merlin - the shaft was torqued to simulate load,
and only then were the bolt holes reamed by hand). These days they
have to emerge from the machine and practically fall together
themselves - no time for careful assembly or fitting.

So if that shaft is loose, it's not loose because it's mis-drilled,
it's sloppy because someone timed how long it took to assemble it when
it fitted correctly, and shaved 5 seconds off the assembler's time by
making it a slack fit instead.

Chrome plate used to be thick because the thickness couldn't be
controlled on corners and the easiest solution was to over-plate to
compensate. Now a shaped anode can control the thickness on edges and
corners to be adequate, so the rest of it can be thinned out.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Richard Cline" wrote in message
...
In article , "Leon"
wrote:

I would certainly consider a Hyundai. Remember that it has a ten year
guarantee. That is better than almost anyone else.


Not everything that Hyundai builds has a 10 year warranty, Automobiles is
just one of the products that Hyundai builds.

"Earl Creel" wrote in message
news:WH2pd.102229$tU4.74532@okepread06...
Thanks Leon, a Triton may show up under the Christmas tree for me. If one
does arrive I will probably try to mount it in my existing router table.
Am thinking I will get an Rousseau table insert or similar to mount it.
What kind of an insert do you have if any?
Earl Creel


I have a Bench Dog set up, the whole 9 yards. I use the Bench Dog plate
that is the brown resin type, about 3/8" thick IIRC. Extremely rigid but
easy to drill. Prior to that I had my older large Bosch hanging from the
clear plastic plate. There are grooves worn in that plate. IIRC the one I
am using now is suppose to be much tougher. For certain it is more rigid.
I got that plate off of a close out table for $9.99 at WoodCraft. It was
predrilled for various specific routers but not the Triton. I am however
pretty good at drilling holes where they need to be. LOL

If you can get past the Ugly factor you should be happy with the Triton. It
seems to have all the features you could want including an edge guide that
appears to be well thought out although I have not used it yet.

"Joe C." wrote in message
. com...
it doesn't matter what the model number is, don't ever buy a craftsman
router.

- louder than anything else
- bits _will_ slip, bet on it
- reliability is iffy
- every add on you might want doesn't fit anything else (unlike, say, PC
routers)

So you think that the Bosch and DeWalt tools with a Craftsman name
automatically makes them not worth buying? I think you are a bit
uninformed.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:58:31 GMT, "toller" wrote:

My switch broke also. When I posted about it, a bunch of people said theirs
had also. Apparently it is Bosch's weak point.

Both of my 1617 and my 1613 have been good, I'll keep the fingers
crossed.

Barry

I was shopping for a router kit recently and noticed that these two were
nearly identical too, at least on the outside.

It may make no difference at all, but a close inspection of the boxes
revealed that thhe Sears model has an aluminum body, vs. the magnesium
body on the Bosch. Probably accounts for an ounce or two of weight
difference. Mostly marketing? Who knows about the internals.

Leon wrote:
"Joe C." wrote in message
. com...

it doesn't matter what the model number is, don't ever buy a craftsman
router.

- louder than anything else
- bits _will_ slip, bet on it
- reliability is iffy
- every add on you might want doesn't fit anything else (unlike, say, PC
routers)


So you think that the Bosch and DeWalt tools with a Craftsman name
automatically makes them not worth buying? I think you are a bit
uninformed.

In article XJPod.74453$EZ.28881@okepread07, "RonB"
wrote:

Buy Bosch for quality and durability

I recall there being a time that there were different colours of Bosch
power tools. Similar in shape, but green and blue versions. I owned
a green (cheaper) Bosch beltsander with bushings and a 'blue' Bosch
beltsander with ball bearings. The green one lasted 5 years after the
'Blue' one died.
Go figgur.

The Ridgid R2610 RO sander from The Borg is in fact a German made Metabo
sander and one of the best sanders I have ever bought. I like it almost
as much as my Festool Rotex sander..*G*

Routers and sanders are my life I build solid surface countertops.
That stuff is awful hard on tools.

2 cents