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Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
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Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting! I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi. Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/14/2018 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting!Â*Â* I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi.Â*Â* Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. Yes very interesting. But my thoughts, I have known about Metabo, probably longer than Festool. I knew it was an upper end brand, German IIRC. IMHO Hitachi has always been a good value tool but again IMHO did not ever have unique features, other then their tools looking a lot like a fancy design tennis shoe. Perhaps, like you said, they want to profit more from Euro sales of Metabo products. Hopefully the Hitachi built tools with the Metabo name plate will retain the same quality and features that the Metabo brand has offered in the past. One might imagine that Hitachi hopes to boost sales with the Metabo name plate here in the US. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:01:44 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote: On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting! I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi. Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. ....and less of the US market. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:02:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 3/14/2018 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting!** I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi.** Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. Yes very interesting. But my thoughts, I have known about Metabo, probably longer than Festool. I knew it was an upper end brand, German IIRC. IMHO Hitachi has always been a good value tool but again IMHO did not ever have unique features, other then their tools looking a lot like a fancy design tennis shoe. Perhaps, like you said, they want to profit more from Euro sales of Metabo products. Hopefully the Hitachi built tools with the Metabo name plate will retain the same quality and features that the Metabo brand has offered in the past. One might imagine that Hitachi hopes to boost sales with the Metabo name plate here in the US. Unless they market more of their tools here, I don't see that happening. I wouldn't buy a Metabo nailer unless there was a wide variety of other tools for sale right next to it. My Hitachi framing nailer does resemble a tennierunner. ;-) |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 12:57:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 3/14/2018 12:18 PM, wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:02:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting!** I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi.** Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. Yes very interesting. But my thoughts, I have known about Metabo, probably longer than Festool. I knew it was an upper end brand, German IIRC. IMHO Hitachi has always been a good value tool but again IMHO did not ever have unique features, other then their tools looking a lot like a fancy design tennis shoe. Perhaps, like you said, they want to profit more from Euro sales of Metabo products. Hopefully the Hitachi built tools with the Metabo name plate will retain the same quality and features that the Metabo brand has offered in the past. One might imagine that Hitachi hopes to boost sales with the Metabo name plate here in the US. Unless they market more of their tools here, I don't see that happening. I wouldn't buy a Metabo nailer unless there was a wide variety of other tools for sale right next to it. It seems most major cities, at least in Texas, has a Metabo service center. There are multiple on-line sources, including Amazon, that sell their products. Looking at their web page they offer, a variety of drills, grinders, track saws, vacs, etc. I've seen nowhere that I can actually touch one. Festools are "everywhere". |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/14/2018 7:48 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 12:57:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 12:18 PM, wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:02:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting!Â*Â* I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi.Â*Â* Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. Yes very interesting. But my thoughts, I have known about Metabo, probably longer than Festool. I knew it was an upper end brand, German IIRC. IMHO Hitachi has always been a good value tool but again IMHO did not ever have unique features, other then their tools looking a lot like a fancy design tennis shoe. Perhaps, like you said, they want to profit more from Euro sales of Metabo products. Hopefully the Hitachi built tools with the Metabo name plate will retain the same quality and features that the Metabo brand has offered in the past. One might imagine that Hitachi hopes to boost sales with the Metabo name plate here in the US. Unless they market more of their tools here, I don't see that happening. I wouldn't buy a Metabo nailer unless there was a wide variety of other tools for sale right next to it. It seems most major cities, at least in Texas, has a Metabo service center. There are multiple on-line sources, including Amazon, that sell their products. Looking at their web page they offer, a variety of drills, grinders, track saws, vacs, etc. I've seen nowhere that I can actually touch one. Festools are "everywhere". No, That will be the rub, they may not be available to touch until the Hitachi tools have the new name plate. ;~) I remember when Festool was pretty much the same, about 11~12 years ago. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:24:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 I've known about Hitachi for awhile. Air nailers and miter saws were the two most common Hitachi tools. Always considered them construction crew tools. Not fine woodworking tools used inside a shop. Always use them outside in the rain and dirt making houses, never furniture. Never heard of Metabo until pretty recently. Had heard of Hilti before Metabo. Got lucky (Ha Ha) being introduced to Festool about 10 years ago when a big tool store in town brought them in and had a big sale on them. I guess back then the no sale prices on Festool rule, everyone must sell the tools at the exact same price rule, was not as rigidly enforced by Festool. Metabo HPT (Hitachi Power Tools). |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/15/2018 3:52 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:24:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 I've known about Hitachi for awhile. Air nailers and miter saws were the two most common Hitachi tools. Always considered them construction crew tools. Not fine woodworking tools used inside a shop. Always use them outside in the rain and dirt making houses, never furniture. Never heard of Metabo until pretty recently. Had heard of Hilti before Metabo. Got lucky (Ha Ha) being introduced to Festool about 10 years ago when a big tool store in town brought them in and had a big sale on them. I guess back then the no sale prices on Festool rule, everyone must sell the tools at the exact same price rule, was not as rigidly enforced by Festool. Metabo HPT (Hitachi Power Tools). I recall Lowe's selling Hitachi Table Saws, Miter Saws, Drills, and probably 15-20+ years ago the Canadian father and son show, The Router Workshop, almost exclusively used Hitachi routers. It seems back in the late 90's many on this news group had Hitachi routers hanging in a router table. I probably heard about Metabo about 25 years ago. IIRC Steve Night Tool Works used Metabo drills. I think Festool went with fixed pricing when they quit selling direct to the customer. But you can still get discount pricing on Festool Tools if you buy combinations of tools. I got a significant discount when buying the Dust Extractor and buying another power tool, in my case the Domino, to go with it. When I bought the Kapex, it's mobile cart plus the left and right wing extensions I got a discount on the cart and wing extensions. If you bought the cart and both wing extensions as a combination you paid the same price as the cart and 1 wing extension. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
So what name will the Magic Wand be, it is a tool you know?
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Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 22:34:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 3/14/2018 7:48 PM, wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 12:57:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 12:18 PM, wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:02:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting!** I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi.** Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. Yes very interesting. But my thoughts, I have known about Metabo, probably longer than Festool. I knew it was an upper end brand, German IIRC. IMHO Hitachi has always been a good value tool but again IMHO did not ever have unique features, other then their tools looking a lot like a fancy design tennis shoe. Perhaps, like you said, they want to profit more from Euro sales of Metabo products. Hopefully the Hitachi built tools with the Metabo name plate will retain the same quality and features that the Metabo brand has offered in the past. One might imagine that Hitachi hopes to boost sales with the Metabo name plate here in the US. Unless they market more of their tools here, I don't see that happening. I wouldn't buy a Metabo nailer unless there was a wide variety of other tools for sale right next to it. It seems most major cities, at least in Texas, has a Metabo service center. There are multiple on-line sources, including Amazon, that sell their products. Looking at their web page they offer, a variety of drills, grinders, track saws, vacs, etc. I've seen nowhere that I can actually touch one. Festools are "everywhere". No, That will be the rub, they may not be available to touch until the Hitachi tools have the new name plate. ;~) I remember when Festool was pretty much the same, about 11~12 years ago. We'll see. When Metabo has their tractor-trailer at Highland and gives away batteries, I may show up and try out their tools. ;-) |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:52:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:24:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 I've known about Hitachi for awhile. Air nailers and miter saws were the two most common Hitachi tools. Always considered them construction crew tools. Not fine woodworking tools used inside a shop. Always use them outside in the rain and dirt making houses, never furniture. Never heard of Metabo until pretty recently. Had heard of Hilti before Metabo. Got lucky (Ha Ha) being introduced to Festool about 10 years ago when a big tool store in town brought them in and had a big sale on them. I guess back then the no sale prices on Festool rule, everyone must sell the tools at the exact same price rule, was not as rigidly enforced by Festool. Festool does run sales occasionally. I've bought a few of their tools on sale. Metabo HPT (Hitachi Power Tools). |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 16:11:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 3/15/2018 3:52 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:24:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 I've known about Hitachi for awhile. Air nailers and miter saws were the two most common Hitachi tools. Always considered them construction crew tools. Not fine woodworking tools used inside a shop. Always use them outside in the rain and dirt making houses, never furniture. Never heard of Metabo until pretty recently. Had heard of Hilti before Metabo. Got lucky (Ha Ha) being introduced to Festool about 10 years ago when a big tool store in town brought them in and had a big sale on them. I guess back then the no sale prices on Festool rule, everyone must sell the tools at the exact same price rule, was not as rigidly enforced by Festool. Metabo HPT (Hitachi Power Tools). I recall Lowe's selling Hitachi Table Saws, Miter Saws, Drills, and probably 15-20+ years ago the Canadian father and son show, The Router Workshop, almost exclusively used Hitachi routers. It seems back in the late 90's many on this news group had Hitachi routers hanging in a router table. Lowes still sells Hitachi tools. I probably heard about Metabo about 25 years ago. IIRC Steve Night Tool Works used Metabo drills. I've certainly heard of them but have never seen one in the wild. I think Festool went with fixed pricing when they quit selling direct to the customer. But you can still get discount pricing on Festool Tools if you buy combinations of tools. I got a significant discount when buying the Dust Extractor and buying another power tool, in my case the Domino, to go with it. When I bought the Kapex, it's mobile cart plus the left and right wing extensions I got a discount on the cart and wing extensions. If you bought the cart and both wing extensions as a combination you paid the same price as the cart and 1 wing extension. They've run sales every once in a while, too. I've bought a few tools on sale. Remember the Pro-5 sale? ;-) |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
By sale price on Festool I mean every vendor is free to sell the tool at a different price. Today every online seller, and every store in person sells every Festool for the exact same price. No one varies that price by $1 or $10 or $25. All exactly the same. I know Festool has reduced prices sort of when you combine a vacuum and big tool. Or a track saw and a track. Price is less than if you bought each item separately. But that is not what I am talking about when I say sale price. And all of these combination prices are the exact same with every single retailer. No one varies the bundled price by even $1. All are required, instructed by Festool to sell every single Festool tool at the prescribed MSRP that Festool states. In contrast, do a Google search for a Makita or DeWalt SCMS. You will have 20 Amazon vendors selling the saws for 20 different prices. And clicking on various Google links will turn up 25 other vendors all with different prices for the same SCMS. With Festool, every Kapex is sold for the exact same price no matter who or where you buy it. No freedom for the vendor to distinguish based on price.
Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
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Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker.. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe.. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. Yes, but evidently, if you wish to be a Festool dealer you have to follow Festool's rules. I am not a lawyer, so I don't know anything about the legality of fixing a uniform price. Below you say that Festool now owns SawStop. I didn't realize that. It makes perfect sense though to me, based upon the price-point of the products. Marketing will be easier--"economies of scale", and all that... Bill They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:51:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If I'm not mistaken, Ariens, of snow blower fame, does the same thing. They set the regular price and they tell the vendors when to run a sale and set those prices too. I'd bet there are other companies that do the same thing, If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 20:10:02 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: By sale price on Festool I mean every vendor is free to sell the tool at a different price. Today every online seller, and every store in person sells every Festool for the exact same price. No one varies that price by $1 or $10 or $25. All exactly the same. I know Festool has reduced prices sort of when you combine a vacuum and big tool. Or a track saw and a track. Price is less than if you bought each item separately. But that is not what I am talking about when I say sale price. And all of these combination prices are the exact same with every single retailer. No one varies the bundled price by even $1. All are required, instructed by Festool to sell every single Festool tool at the prescribed MSRP that Festool states. In contrast, do a Google search for a Makita or DeWalt SCMS. You will have 20 Amazon vendors selling the saws for 20 different prices. And clicking on various Google links will turn up 25 other vendors all with different prices for the same SCMS. With Festool, every Kapex is sold for the exact same price no matter who or where you buy it. No freedom for the vendor to distinguish based on price. Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. You mean like Saturn and Tesla were "closed before the sun sets and every car taken back and sued in court"? I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. It is not illegal for a manufacturer to require resellers to charge a specific price for a product. What is illegal is for manufacturers to get together and decide that they are _all_ going to charge the same price for a kind of product. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/15/2018 7:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 22:34:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 7:48 PM, wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 12:57:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 12:18 PM, wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:02:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 3/14/2018 10:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/14/18 9:24 AM, Leon wrote: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/power...5c6e ecb92632 Interesting!Â*Â* I've always been intrigued by the Metabo brand. Funny that Hitachi buys the company for name recognition, but folks in the US (for the most part) have never heard of Metabo but everyone knows Hitachi.Â*Â* Apparently, they want more of the Euro market. Yes very interesting. But my thoughts, I have known about Metabo, probably longer than Festool. I knew it was an upper end brand, German IIRC. IMHO Hitachi has always been a good value tool but again IMHO did not ever have unique features, other then their tools looking a lot like a fancy design tennis shoe. Perhaps, like you said, they want to profit more from Euro sales of Metabo products. Hopefully the Hitachi built tools with the Metabo name plate will retain the same quality and features that the Metabo brand has offered in the past. One might imagine that Hitachi hopes to boost sales with the Metabo name plate here in the US. Unless they market more of their tools here, I don't see that happening. I wouldn't buy a Metabo nailer unless there was a wide variety of other tools for sale right next to it. It seems most major cities, at least in Texas, has a Metabo service center. There are multiple on-line sources, including Amazon, that sell their products. Looking at their web page they offer, a variety of drills, grinders, track saws, vacs, etc. I've seen nowhere that I can actually touch one. Festools are "everywhere". No, That will be the rub, they may not be available to touch until the Hitachi tools have the new name plate. ;~) I remember when Festool was pretty much the same, about 11~12 years ago. We'll see. When Metabo has their tractor-trailer at Highland and gives away batteries, I may show up and try out their tools. ;-) Yeah! |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
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Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
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Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/16/2018 1:51 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. As mentioned on another post, GM's Saturn line of vehicles only sold for sticker. there was no negotiation on the price of the car as built by Saturn. You could negotiate dealer add ons. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. SawStop also has fixed pricing. The other manufacturers allow discount pricing because they want to up the volume of sales. And that typically affects build quality. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Actually I think the company that owns Festool bought SawStop. TTS Tooltechnic Systems |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On 3/16/2018 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker.Â* No dickering, no bargaining with customers.Â* If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court.Â* I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars.Â* But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different.Â* Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean.Â* Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other.Â* Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia.Â* And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe.Â* No car dealer has a monopoly.Â* But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands.Â* Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it.Â* It is the oddball out here. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe.Â* But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control?Â* If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices.Â* But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. Yes, but evidently, if you wish to be a Festool dealer you have to follow Festool's rules. I am not a lawyer, so I don't know anything about the legality of fixing a uniform price.Â* Below you say that Festool now owns SawStop.Â* I didn't realize that. It makes perfect sense though to me, based upon the price-point of the products. Marketing will be easier--"economies of scale", and all that... The inventor/developer of the SawStop was a lawyer. I think the monopoly thing is if the dealers agree to fix pricing and that is where there problem comes in. They also probably sign a contract with the manufacturer to sell at suggested retail or loose their license to sell their products. Bill They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors.Â* All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items.Â* And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items.Â* I guess SawStop is similar to Festool.Â* I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price.Â* No competition for SawStop on price.Â* Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
Leon wrote:
I would imagine that to become a SawStop or Festool dealer you probably sign a contract that says that you will sell at suggested retail pricing or lose your license to sell their products. Or, maybe all it takes is a clause that Festool can rescind your privilege to retail their products at any time, or for any reason. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 10:19:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 3/15/2018 7:37 PM, wrote: They've run sales every once in a while, too. I've bought a few tools on sale. Remember the Pro-5 sale? ;-) No, what was that? http://toolguyd.com/festool-pro-5-ltd-sander-deal/ I will say that when a new tool came out there would be an introductory discount. I took advantage of that with the Domino. I'm not sure if they still do this or not. I bought my CT48 on a 20% (IIRC) sale, without buying a tool. At least two of my other tools were on sale. They used to run a sale once a year, or so. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 10:41:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 3/16/2018 2:22 AM, Bill wrote: wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker.* No dickering, no bargaining with customers.* If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court.* I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars.* But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different.* Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean.* Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other.* Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia.* And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe.* No car dealer has a monopoly.* But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands.* Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it.* It is the oddball out here. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe.* But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control?* If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices.* But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. Yes, but evidently, if you wish to be a Festool dealer you have to follow Festool's rules. I am not a lawyer, so I don't know anything about the legality of fixing a uniform price.* Below you say that Festool now owns SawStop.* I didn't realize that. It makes perfect sense though to me, based upon the price-point of the products. Marketing will be easier--"economies of scale", and all that... The inventor/developer of the SawStop was a lawyer. I think the monopoly thing is if the dealers agree to fix pricing and that is where there problem comes in. They also probably sign a contract with the manufacturer to sell at suggested retail or loose their license to sell their products. Correct. Both parties agree to the contract. What's the problem? |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
Markem wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote:
Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:04:24 -0400, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. My point was that there may be a comparable profit between the two. The retailer in the not-so-expensive area can't sell as many units but he doesn't have to. The opposite is also likely. However, there isn't a lot of incentive to sell (buy, really) in the other's territory. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 11:04:30 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying.. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. Some folks will drive quite a distance to get a better price, especially if they can combine the trip with other reasons. Trying to set prices in neighboring areas such that one area doesn't steal customers from the other can be quite a chore. Try doing that all across the country and not harm any given retailer. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:04:24 -0400, Bill wrote: wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. My point was that there may be a comparable profit between the two. The retailer in the not-so-expensive area can't sell as many units but he doesn't have to. The opposite is also likely. However, there isn't a lot of incentive to sell (buy, really) in the other's territory. As far as I'm concerned, they can sell them for whatever they want since I'm not in their target audience. I watched some interesting videos on YouTube this week, for car salesman, on "Closing the sale and getting the sticker price". Festool's philosophy appears to be not so much different. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:30:51 -0400, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:04:24 -0400, Bill wrote: wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. My point was that there may be a comparable profit between the two. The retailer in the not-so-expensive area can't sell as many units but he doesn't have to. The opposite is also likely. However, there isn't a lot of incentive to sell (buy, really) in the other's territory. As far as I'm concerned, they can sell them for whatever they want since I'm not in their target audience. I watched some interesting videos on YouTube this week, for car salesman, on "Closing the sale and getting the sticker price". Festool's philosophy appears to be not so much different. Wah! I can't afford Festool! Good grief, they're not comparable at all. |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
|
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 11:30:57 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:04:24 -0400, Bill wrote: wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe.. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only.. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. My point was that there may be a comparable profit between the two. The retailer in the not-so-expensive area can't sell as many units but he doesn't have to. The opposite is also likely. However, there isn't a lot of incentive to sell (buy, really) in the other's territory. As far as I'm concerned, they can sell them for whatever they want since I'm not in their target audience. I watched some interesting videos on YouTube this week, for car salesman, on "Closing the sale and getting the sticker price". Festool's philosophy appears to be not so much different. Car case: Product has an MSRP on the sticker. The S stands for "suggested". Suggested implies negotiable. A slimy sales dweep talks some poor slug into paying full price. The next customer is more savvy than the last. (S)he buys the same car for thousands less. Festool case: That's the price. Non-negotiable. The salesman says "Would you like to buy it?" How are those things "not so much different"? |
Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 11:30:57 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote: wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:04:24 -0400, Bill wrote: wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:09:27 -0400, Bill wrote: Markem wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:16:45 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:39:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: wrote: Just imagine if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools. If they were the only tool supplier, I believe things would be different. Festool does not have a monopoly (except on Festool tools), as there are plenty of suitably-equivalent tools. Not sure what you mean. Ford, GM, Fiat all make cars/trucks that compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here. Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy. The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even gack eBay. After rereading your post I think I might grasp what you are saying. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, controlled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Festool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop. Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either. Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin. That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area. OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more. That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think. My point was that there may be a comparable profit between the two. The retailer in the not-so-expensive area can't sell as many units but he doesn't have to. The opposite is also likely. However, there isn't a lot of incentive to sell (buy, really) in the other's territory. As far as I'm concerned, they can sell them for whatever they want since I'm not in their target audience. I watched some interesting videos on YouTube this week, for car salesman, on "Closing the sale and getting the sticker price". Festool's philosophy appears to be not so much different. Car case: Product has an MSRP on the sticker. The S stands for "suggested". Suggested implies negotiable. A slimy sales dweep talks some poor slug into paying full price. The next customer is more savvy than the last. (S)he buys the same car for thousands less. Festool case: That's the price. Non-negotiable. The salesman says "Would you like to buy it?" How are those things "not so much different"? The manufacturer is playing the role of the "slimy sales dweep"? |
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