The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/18/2017 9:26 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?


What do you base that on? I may or may not agree with you depending on
the numbers.

How much of the presently built up area is in a flood plain? Break down
between residential and commercial/industrial.

If the flood plains were abandoned, what other space is available to
build on?

100 year? 500 year? 5 year? I don't care if you build right on the
beach, but don't expect the rest of us to help.

There were a lot of places stupidly build in areas that flood and would
not be allowed today. I know of an area in Tuckerton NJ that was built
in the 1950's right on man made lagoons. Vacation homes, no heat, but
right on the ground. Most have long been raised a few feet, some now
year round houses that would. Codes have changed in those areas.

Never building in a flood prone area would make major differences in
where we live and work. It would be interesting to see how it would
affect us.

Disclosu My last place of employment was right on a small river and
we had 14" of water one time. Took us 3 days to get back in production
and we did have flood insurance. Floods was easier to deal with than a
fire. Did that ooo.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/18/2017 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/18/2017 9:26 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman.Â*Â* Why build anything in a flood zone?


What do you base that on?Â* I may or may not agree with you depending on
the numbers.

How much of the presently built up area is in a flood plain?Â* Break down
between residential and commercial/industrial.

If the flood plains were abandoned, what other space is available to
build on?

100 year?Â* 500 year?Â* 5 year?Â* I don't care if you build right on the
beach, but don't expect the rest of us to help.

There were a lot of places stupidly build in areas that flood and would
not be allowed today.Â* I know of an area in Tuckerton NJ that was built
in the 1950's right on man made lagoons.Â* Vacation homes, no heat, but
right on the ground.Â* Most have long been raised a few feet, some now
year round houses that would.Â* Codes have changed in those areas.

Never building in a flood prone area would make major differences in
where we live and work.Â* It would be interesting to see how it would
affect us.

DisclosuÂ* My last place of employment was right on a small river and
we had 14" of water one time.Â* Took us 3 days to get back in production
and we did have flood insurance.Â* Floods was easier to deal with than a
fire.Â* Did that ooo.

I think floods would only be easier than a fire if as many homes caught
fire as those that flooded. A fire typically is an isolated case a
flood affects the community and takes months to repair, as materials
become available and mold inspectors certify weeks after the water has
gone down. And with a flood finding some where else to live becomes an
issue as most hotels are filled quickly. Grocery stores are closed
along with gas stations for days if not weeks.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 12:50:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/18/2017 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/18/2017 9:26 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman.** Why build anything in a flood zone?


What do you base that on?* I may or may not agree with you depending on
the numbers.

How much of the presently built up area is in a flood plain?* Break down
between residential and commercial/industrial.

If the flood plains were abandoned, what other space is available to
build on?

100 year?* 500 year?* 5 year?* I don't care if you build right on the
beach, but don't expect the rest of us to help.

There were a lot of places stupidly build in areas that flood and would
not be allowed today.* I know of an area in Tuckerton NJ that was built
in the 1950's right on man made lagoons.* Vacation homes, no heat, but
right on the ground.* Most have long been raised a few feet, some now
year round houses that would.* Codes have changed in those areas.

Never building in a flood prone area would make major differences in
where we live and work.* It would be interesting to see how it would
affect us.

Disclosu* My last place of employment was right on a small river and
we had 14" of water one time.* Took us 3 days to get back in production
and we did have flood insurance.* Floods was easier to deal with than a
fire.* Did that ooo.

I think floods would only be easier than a fire if as many homes caught
fire as those that flooded. A fire typically is an isolated case a
flood affects the community and takes months to repair, as materials
become available and mold inspectors certify weeks after the water has
gone down. And with a flood finding some where else to live becomes an
issue as most hotels are filled quickly. Grocery stores are closed
along with gas stations for days if not weeks.
He's not talking about a residential flood. He's talking industrial.
In case of most industrial (and even commercial ) properties, a flood
is a lot less devastating than a fire - and a WHOLE LOT less
devestating than a flood of the same magnatude in a residential area.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/18/2017 1:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/18/2017 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Never building in a flood prone area would make major differences in
where we live and work.Â* It would be interesting to see how it would
affect us.

DisclosuÂ* My last place of employment was right on a small river
and we had 14" of water one time.Â* Took us 3 days to get back in
production and we did have flood insurance.Â* Floods was easier to deal
with than a fire.Â* Did that ooo.

I think floods would only be easier than a fire if as many homes caught
fire as those that flooded.Â* A fire typically is an isolated case a
flood affects the community and takes months to repair, as materials
become available and mold inspectors certify weeks after the water has
gone down.Â* And with a flood finding some where else to live becomes an
issue as most hotels are filled quickly.Â* Grocery stores are closed
along with gas stations for days if not weeks.

Depends on circumstances and I speak from limited experience so blanket
statements not implied
Our flood was only 14 inches so some motors had to be dried and bearings
replaced. We knew it was coming so we moved a lot of stuff off the
floor. Some loss of raw materials on lower part of a pallet. Had it been
higher, machine control panels would have been damaged. We were down
for only 3 days.

Two fires, fifteen years apart with two different companies. Both were
6 months down. Our equipment was not lost but had smoke and minor water
damage as the actual fire was on the other side of a wall.

Flood cost was about $100,000, fire cost exceeded $2 million. Good
insurance, including business interruption insurance.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

Up here in the Grand River watershed ANYTHING you do in the "flood
plane" needs approval from the GRCA - the Grand River Conservation
Authority.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/18/2017 5:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/18/2017 1:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/18/2017 10:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Never building in a flood prone area would make major differences in
where we live and work.Â* It would be interesting to see how it would
affect us.

DisclosuÂ* My last place of employment was right on a small river
and we had 14" of water one time.Â* Took us 3 days to get back in
production and we did have flood insurance.Â* Floods was easier to
deal with than a fire.Â* Did that ooo.

I think floods would only be easier than a fire if as many homes
caught fire as those that flooded.Â* A fire typically is an isolated
case a flood affects the community and takes months to repair, as
materials become available and mold inspectors certify weeks after the
water has gone down.Â* And with a flood finding some where else to live
becomes an issue as most hotels are filled quickly.Â* Grocery stores
are closed along with gas stations for days if not weeks.

Depends on circumstances and I speak from limited experience so blanket
statements not implied
Our flood was only 14 inches so some motors had to be dried and bearings
replaced.Â* We knew it was coming so we moved a lot of stuff off the
floor. Some loss of raw materials on lower part of a pallet. Had it been
higher, machine control panels would have been damaged.Â* We were down
for only 3 days.

Two fires, fifteen years apart with two different companies.Â* Both were
6 months down.Â* Our equipment was not lost but had smoke and minor water
damage as the actual fire was on the other side of a wall.

Flood cost was about $100,000, fire cost exceeded $2 million.Â* Good
insurance, including business interruption insurance.

Sorry, I was speaking more in context with the thread.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

No need for "zoning" at all. Just stop subsidizing flood insurance.
If you want to build below sea level, have at it.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

No need for "zoning" at all. Just stop subsidizing flood insurance.
If you want to build below sea level, have at it.


Much of the flooding in the Houston area was 100' above sea level.
Elevation does not guarantee against flooding.
Our home is at 98'. Water only came up over our curb. Homes 1 mile north
of us are are at 100' and had 18" of water in their homes.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

Leon writes:
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

No need for "zoning" at all. Just stop subsidizing flood insurance.
If you want to build below sea level, have at it.


Much of the flooding in the Houston area was 100' above sea level.
Elevation does not guarantee against flooding.
Our home is at 98'. Water only came up over our curb. Homes 1 mile north
of us are are at 100' and had 18" of water in their homes.


Yet, they built houses in a "reservoir" (barker/addicks), right?

'Those homes should probably never have been built. Now they'll be
flooded for quite some time: "Homes upstream will be impacted for
an extended period of time while water is released from the
reservoirs," the Corps wrote in a press release. The reservoirs
will take between one to three months to drain.'

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:11:14 -0500, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

No need for "zoning" at all. Just stop subsidizing flood insurance.
If you want to build below sea level, have at it.


Much of the flooding in the Houston area was 100' above sea level.
Elevation does not guarantee against flooding.
Our home is at 98'. Water only came up over our curb. Homes 1 mile north
of us are are at 100' and had 18" of water in their homes.


a pail on top of a table will hold more water than a saucer on the
floor -- It's more terrain than altitude.

That said, most of Waterloo amd Kitchener and all of Bridgeport
would be under water before water came over the kurb here - - -

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/20/2017 8:23 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon writes:
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

No need for "zoning" at all. Just stop subsidizing flood insurance.
If you want to build below sea level, have at it.


Much of the flooding in the Houston area was 100' above sea level.
Elevation does not guarantee against flooding.
Our home is at 98'. Water only came up over our curb. Homes 1 mile north
of us are are at 100' and had 18" of water in their homes.


Yet, they built houses in a "reservoir" (barker/addicks), right?

'Those homes should probably never have been built. Now they'll be
flooded for quite some time: "Homes upstream will be impacted for
an extended period of time while water is released from the
reservoirs," the Corps wrote in a press release. The reservoirs
will take between one to three months to drain.'


Absolutely true!


Actually the water in the Barker reservoir are already high and dry
again so to speak and have been for about 5 days.

It is shocking that we have had major flooding in the Houston area for
the last 3 years. Those in the reservoir saw flooding almost reach
their homes in the past couple of years. 5 in 6 still chose to not buy
flood insurance and are blaming the government for this and think they
should have been told that this would happen. They are blaming the
engineers for not opening the flood gates earlier. The reservoir filled
in 2 days, it was in its normal state of "empty". And as you mentioned
above it will take months to drain from that flood gate. They refuse to
understand that it is no one's fault except for the developers,
builders, realtors, and ultimate themselves for being ignorant about
where their homes were built.
They are under the assumption that if you are not required to buy flood
insurance your home will not flood. I have explained to them time and
again that the mortgage companies may require flood insurance to protect
their investment. Pay cash for your home and you don't have to pay for
any insurance at all.



But the comment I made refers to any elevation. If there is an issue
with the drains, high elevations can flood.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/20/2017 9:28 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:11:14 -0500, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:34:06 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:26:14 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

J. Clarke writes:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:25:38 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

Now, you want to talk politics, we can discuss the lack of zoning in
the Houston area that led to many houses being built in flood zones,

So it's better if factories or stores or farms are in flood zones?

Again with the strawman. Why build anything in a flood zone?

If you don't want stuff built in flood zones you need to quit
blathering about "zoning". It doesn't mean what you seem to think it
means.

No need for "zoning" at all. Just stop subsidizing flood insurance.
If you want to build below sea level, have at it.


Much of the flooding in the Houston area was 100' above sea level.
Elevation does not guarantee against flooding.
Our home is at 98'. Water only came up over our curb. Homes 1 mile north
of us are are at 100' and had 18" of water in their homes.


a pail on top of a table will hold more water than a saucer on the
floor -- It's more terrain than altitude.

Exactly! And yet some believe that altitude is the determining factor.

The Houston Gang An update 8/30
 

On 9/20/2017 10:25 AM, Leon wrote:



Absolutely true!


Actually the water in the Barker reservoir are already high and dry
again so to speak and have been for about 5 days.

should have said the houses vs the water.