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Something Different For a Change
Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. The
customer contacted me about an old table that had a broken leg. As it turns out it had two broken legs and the third was loose. The table has a fold down leaf on each end and pulled apart for a center leaf. This link shows the worst of the three legs and obviously some one before me has made repairs. Notice the finish nail protruding through the bottom of the top. Part of the leg was still attached to that tenon on the apron. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Hardware to hold the end leafs up. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Part number 768 https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ One of the original hinges, a few had been replaced by the typical galvanized "Stanley" hardware type hinges. And closer inspection seems to reveal That the aprons, maybe the legs too were oak. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ The old way of making pocket holes for attaching the apron to the walnut top. It appears a flat bottom hole was drilled at an angle from the bottom up. Than a screw was inserted through the side of the hole. Oh, and those steel strait blade wood screws were great. No bit slippage at all. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Reassembled https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ And with the end leafs extended. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ I did numerous repairs to split aprons and used epoxy to reglue all of the apron tenons back onto the legs. And I added some additional modern day pocket holes and screws. I think I removed a dozen finish nails that were in strange places. |
Something Different For a Change
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 2:32:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. I did numerous repairs to split aprons and used epoxy to reglue all of the apron tenons back onto the legs. And I added some additional modern day pocket holes and screws. I think I removed a dozen finish nails that were in strange places. Looks like a nice old table. Interesting details and hardware. Good job. What the heck are those pock marks, on the underside? Those have me baffled. I suppose, no telling why they're there. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Your project reminds me of a somewhat similar aged rectangle walnut table I have been wanting to repair and refinish. I recently removed it from the (now) Observatory (previously the hand tool room behind the garage). A neighbor was to toss it to the road. She had used it as a gardening/planting table. No fold-down end leaves and the inside leaves are missing. Sonny |
Something Different For a Change
Leon wrote:
Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. The customer contacted me about an old table that had a broken leg. As it turns out it had two broken legs and the third was loose. The table has a fold down leaf on each end and pulled apart for a center leaf. This link shows the worst of the three legs and obviously some one before me has made repairs. Notice the finish nail protruding through the bottom of the top. Part of the leg was still attached to that tenon on the apron. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Hardware to hold the end leafs up. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Part number 768 https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ One of the original hinges, a few had been replaced by the typical galvanized "Stanley" hardware type hinges. And closer inspection seems to reveal That the aprons, maybe the legs too were oak. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ The old way of making pocket holes for attaching the apron to the walnut top. It appears a flat bottom hole was drilled at an angle from the bottom up. Than a screw was inserted through the side of the hole. Oh, and those steel strait blade wood screws were great. No bit slippage at all. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Reassembled https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ And with the end leafs extended. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ I did numerous repairs to split aprons and used epoxy to reglue all of the apron tenons back onto the legs. And I added some additional modern day pocket holes and screws. I think I removed a dozen finish nails that were in strange places. Beautiful table. I undertook to repair a pedestal table which was probably as old as I am. It had also been "repaired" in the past with nails and glue. At least all the parts were there. -- GW Ross |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/7/2017 4:10 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 2:32:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote: Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. I did numerous repairs to split aprons and used epoxy to reglue all of the apron tenons back onto the legs. And I added some additional modern day pocket holes and screws. I think I removed a dozen finish nails that were in strange places. Looks like a nice old table. Interesting details and hardware. Good job. What the heck are those pock marks, on the underside? Those have me baffled. I suppose, no telling why they're there. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ I meant to post that picture, thanks for bringing that up. Those are numerous and close together on both fold down leaves. They were also on the main table sections but not as evident. Something I also noticed is that the edge detail around the perimeter of the table was not consistent. I wonder if the tool used to create the perimeter edge treatment only cut small lengths at a time and had to be more closely placed on the rounded sections. Your project reminds me of a somewhat similar aged rectangle walnut table I have been wanting to repair and refinish. I recently removed it from the (now) Observatory (previously the hand tool room behind the garage). A neighbor was to toss it to the road. She had used it as a gardening/planting table. No fold-down end leaves and the inside leaves are missing. Sonny |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/7/2017 4:23 PM, G Ross wrote:
Leon wrote: Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. The customer contacted me about an old table that had a broken leg. As it turns out it had two broken legs and the third was loose. The table has a fold down leaf on each end and pulled apart for a center leaf. This link shows the worst of the three legs and obviously some one before me has made repairs. Notice the finish nail protruding through the bottom of the top. Part of the leg was still attached to that tenon on the apron. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Hardware to hold the end leafs up. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Part number 768 https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ One of the original hinges, a few had been replaced by the typical galvanized "Stanley" hardware type hinges. And closer inspection seems to reveal That the aprons, maybe the legs too were oak. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ The old way of making pocket holes for attaching the apron to the walnut top. It appears a flat bottom hole was drilled at an angle from the bottom up. Than a screw was inserted through the side of the hole. Oh, and those steel strait blade wood screws were great. No bit slippage at all. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Reassembled https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ And with the end leafs extended. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ I did numerous repairs to split aprons and used epoxy to reglue all of the apron tenons back onto the legs. And I added some additional modern day pocket holes and screws. I think I removed a dozen finish nails that were in strange places. Beautiful table. I undertook to repair a pedestal table which was probably as old as I am. It had also been "repaired" in the past with nails and glue. At least all the parts were there. It was a nice piece and well built, no telling how old it was. |
Something Different For a Change
On Sun, 7 May 2017 21:44:41 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 5/7/2017 4:10 PM, Sonny wrote: On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 2:32:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote: Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. I did numerous repairs to split aprons and used epoxy to reglue all of the apron tenons back onto the legs. And I added some additional modern day pocket holes and screws. I think I removed a dozen finish nails that were in strange places. Looks like a nice old table. Interesting details and hardware. Good job. What the heck are those pock marks, on the underside? Those have me baffled. I suppose, no telling why they're there. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ I meant to post that picture, thanks for bringing that up. Those are numerous and close together on both fold down leaves. They were also on the main table sections but not as evident. Something I also noticed is that the edge detail around the perimeter of the table was not consistent. I wonder if the tool used to create the perimeter edge treatment only cut small lengths at a time and had to be more closely placed on the rounded sections. Your project reminds me of a somewhat similar aged rectangle walnut table I have been wanting to repair and refinish. I recently removed it from the (now) Observatory (previously the hand tool room behind the garage). A neighbor was to toss it to the road. She had used it as a gardening/planting table. No fold-down end leaves and the inside leaves are missing. Sonny Sure looks like "clamp tracks" |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/7/2017 3:32 PM, Leon wrote:
Oh, and those steel strait blade wood screws were great. No bit slippage at all. You say "great"? I assume you mean for slotted screws. High quality slotted screws don't slip when using a properly fitting quality screw driver. Using power drivers not so much. I've long ago tossed all remaining slotted screws I own. If they still make them, they shouldn't... Philips screws look best, and work second only to torx screws. IMNSHO they could quit making all the rest. -- Jack Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life. http://jbstein.com |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/8/2017 9:39 AM, Jack wrote:
On 5/7/2017 3:32 PM, Leon wrote: Oh, and those steel strait blade wood screws were great. No bit slippage at all. You say "great"? I assume you mean for slotted screws. Yes High quality slotted screws don't slip when using a properly fitting quality screw driver. Actually with these quality steel slotted screws it did not matter what size straight blade driver I used. I started with a 1/4' blade and ended up using a 3/8" tipped because the handle was bigger and I could apply more torque. The slots in the screws did not show any signs of every being rounded off. Using power drivers not so much. It is OK if you can keep the bit in line with the screw, hard to do with a drill type driver. With a standard or Yankee style driver not a problem. I've long ago tossed all remaining slotted screws I own. I prefer to not use them at all but in this case I would imagine that this was all that was available when the table was manufactured. If they still make them, they shouldn't... Philips screws look best, and work second only to torx screws. IMNSHO they could quit making all the rest. I prefer torx/star over square/Robertson but square/Robertson over Philips. For me it is much easier to find quality square and torx than a quality Philips. |
Something Different For a Change
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 12:32:29 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. The old way of making pocket holes for attaching the apron to the walnut top. It appears a flat bottom hole was drilled at an angle from the bottom up. Than a screw was inserted through the side of the hole. That's a lovely detail (but a little frightening, overtightening a flathead screw would split the grain). Kreg screws are better (if you don't wnat to conserve the article for a museum). The tiny scoops for screwdriver clearance look like knife-whittled work: I approve! Speaking of splitting the grain, I hope the underside of that lovely wood top is somewhat sealed. |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/8/2017 4:45 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 12:32:29 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote: Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. The old way of making pocket holes for attaching the apron to the walnut top. It appears a flat bottom hole was drilled at an angle from the bottom up. Than a screw was inserted through the side of the hole. That's a lovely detail (but a little frightening, overtightening a flathead screw would split the grain). Kreg screws are better (if you don't wnat to conserve the article for a museum). Yes but Kreg's grand father may not have been born yet. I did add several Kreg style screws but I hope that will not be a problem. While what you mentioned could be true, splitting the grain, the countersink head could pivot in the over sized holes to allow for the top to expand and contract. The tiny scoops for screwdriver clearance look like knife-whittled work: I approve! Speaking of splitting the grain, I hope the underside of that lovely wood top is somewhat sealed. Not that I could tell, only finished on the outside of the apron. the inside of th apron appeared to be unfinished. BUT then again, it has held up for a very long time as is. |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/8/2017 5:19 PM, Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2017 4:45 PM, whit3rd wrote: On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 12:32:29 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote: Instead of creating I did some repair work on an old walnut table. The old way of making pocket holes for attaching the apron to the walnut top. It appears a flat bottom hole was drilled at an angle from the bottom up. Than a screw was inserted through the side of the hole. That's a lovely detail (but a little frightening, overtightening a flathead screw would split the grain). Kreg screws are better (if you don't wnat to conserve the article for a museum). Yes but Kreg's grand father may not have been born yet. I did add several Kreg style screws but I hope that will not be a problem. While what you mentioned could be true, splitting the grain, the countersink head could pivot in the over sized holes to allow for the top to expand and contract. The tiny scoops for screwdriver clearance look like knife-whittled work: I approve! Speaking of splitting the grain, I hope the underside of that lovely wood top is somewhat sealed. Not that I could tell, only finished on the outside of the apron. the inside of th apron appeared to be unfinished. BUT then again, it has held up for a very long time as is. Well looking again, there does appear to have some type finish in the inside of the apron, but not where the apron and legs were mounted. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ |
Something Different For a Change
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 5:24:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Well looking again, there does appear to have some type finish in the inside of the apron, but not where the apron and legs were mounted. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Nicely done! I like doing projects like that because it takes a different skill set as well as imagination. Thanks again for posting your pics of the project. All of those little details you found like the unfinished areas, the ULTRA cool number on the leg, even the previous repairs... all part of that piece's story. Not to take away from anyone's build efforts, but working with a fine old piece to give it a little more life (even if it wasn't really special in its day) makes me smile. Robert |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/9/2017 12:30 AM, wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 5:24:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote: Well looking again, there does appear to have some type finish in the inside of the apron, but not where the apron and legs were mounted. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/ Nicely done! I like doing projects like that because it takes a different skill set as well as imagination. Thanks again for posting your pics of the project. Thank you. All of those little details you found like the unfinished areas, the ULTRA cool number on the leg, even the previous repairs... all part of that piece's story. Not to take away from anyone's build efforts, but working with a fine old piece to give it a little more life (even if it wasn't really special in its day) makes me smile. Robert Yeah, you have to wonder what tools they had to work with back then. the owner thought the table was hand made, It did have some apparent inconsistencies, especially around the perimeter of the top, but evidence that a larger power tool was used for cutting the recess for the hinges and the slots in the legs to receive the apron tenons. |
Something Different For a Change
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Something Different For a Change
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:08:04 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 5/9/2017 12:30 AM, wrote: All of those little details you found like the unfinished areas, the ULTRA cool number on the leg, even the previous repairs... all part of that piece's story. Not to take away from anyone's build efforts, but working with a fine old piece to give it a little more life (even if it wasn't really special in its day) makes me smile. Robert Yeah, you have to wonder what tools they had to work with back then. the owner thought the table was hand made, It did have some apparent inconsistencies, especially around the perimeter of the top, but evidence that a larger power tool was used for cutting the recess for the hinges and the slots in the legs to receive the apron tenons. Yeah, echoing Robert's comments, similarly, I presently have a child's chair to upholster. Once I removed some of the layers of fabric (previous upholsterer(s) didn't remove previous fabrics), I've discovered broken parts and poor repairs. But I like repairing these sorts of projects, properly fixing the chair to a much better condition. With these discoveries, I wonder how a small chair, as this, became so damaged in the first place. Some pics (scroll right for 2 more pics) of the broken (in many pieces) backrest framing. Second pic shows plywood and a metal plate "repair". 3rd pic shows more of the ply repair. I haven't finished tearing the older fabrics off, so I may discover more issues. The front legs are, for sure, loose. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ As dpb alludes to, at first I thought some seller did these quick fixes, to sell the chair at a quick profit. I asked the owner if that was the case or is the chair a family hand-me-down. It's been in the family, so I want, more so, to fix it properly. I suppose previous fixes were family attempts and understandable (not a put-down on their part!). Sonny |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/9/2017 9:46 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:08:04 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: On 5/9/2017 12:30 AM, wrote: All of those little details you found like the unfinished areas, the ULTRA cool number on the leg, even the previous repairs... all part of that piece's story. Not to take away from anyone's build efforts, but working with a fine old piece to give it a little more life (even if it wasn't really special in its day) makes me smile. Robert Yeah, you have to wonder what tools they had to work with back then. the owner thought the table was hand made, It did have some apparent inconsistencies, especially around the perimeter of the top, but evidence that a larger power tool was used for cutting the recess for the hinges and the slots in the legs to receive the apron tenons. Yeah, echoing Robert's comments, similarly, I presently have a child's chair to upholster. Once I removed some of the layers of fabric (previous upholsterer(s) didn't remove previous fabrics), I've discovered broken parts and poor repairs. But I like repairing these sorts of projects, properly fixing the chair to a much better condition. With these discoveries, I wonder how a small chair, as this, became so damaged in the first place. Some pics (scroll right for 2 more pics) of the broken (in many pieces) backrest framing. Second pic shows plywood and a metal plate "repair". 3rd pic shows more of the ply repair. I haven't finished tearing the older fabrics off, so I may discover more issues. The front legs are, for sure, loose. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ As dpb alludes to, at first I thought some seller did these quick fixes, to sell the chair at a quick profit. I asked the owner if that was the case or is the chair a family hand-me-down. It's been in the family, so I want, more so, to fix it properly. I suppose previous fixes were family attempts and understandable (not a put-down on their part!). Sonny Looks pretty old, I see some of those old timey screws in there. LOL Be sure and posts pictures of the end result. |
Something Different For a Change
On 05/09/2017 9:46 AM, Sonny wrote:
.... As dpb alludes to, at first I thought some seller did these quick fixes, to sell the chair at a quick profit. I asked the owner if that was the case or is the chair a family hand-me-down. It's been in the family, so I want, more so, to fix it properly. I suppose previous fixes were family attempts and understandable (not a put-down on their part!). I almost always ended up putting far more time/effort into any of the pieces than they were worth monetarily simply 'cuz couldn't stand to not do whatever it was needed "right"... The one agreement we had was that I did _NOT_ do the stripping/refinishing.... :) She and in particular one other of her buddies were very good at recognizing what was underneath the present appearance...consequently, much of what they did bring home was the unappreciated for the shape it was in... :) Almost everything was factory-built even if there were still some signs of a little bit of handwork here and there -- kinda' like what I'd guess is may the case of Leon's table here. OTOH, there was the occasional home-built piece, but none of them came across over the time were doing this were anything much beyond primitives--no budding Duncan Phyfe's in E TN then, apparently. :) Lonnie Bird apparently sprang full-bloom (of course, he was still in Berea, KY, at that time, before the move to Knoxville area). -- |
Something Different For a Change
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:41:12 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 05/09/2017 9:46 AM, Sonny wrote: ... As dpb alludes to, That may have been a poor choice of words, in reference to what you contributed. My statement was toward this small chair, thinking, when I first saw some of its issues, that the owner may have picked it up at some sale. I almost always ended up putting far more time/effort into any of the pieces than they were worth monetarily simply 'cuz couldn't stand to not do whatever it was needed "right"... Yep, yep, yep! It's almost always more work than it's worth, especially (most times) when my relatives ask me to do magic and expect minimum cost, if any at all. I like doing repairs as a hobby, so I often overlook costs to a customer, especially return customers. I would normally charge 1) about $50-$75 to repair this chair, 2) $75 is my fee for re-seating and re-tying springs onto 3) new jute webbing. Just removing old tacks and staples are time consuming, as well. Usually, these old pieces are full of old dust and (soft materials) decay, and cleaning is another time consumer. I'll charge $50 for all this work, more so to get the chair in good order. I learn from these sorts of repairs, so I accept this as a sort of payment, also. Sonny |
Something Different For a Change
On 05/09/2017 12:15 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:41:12 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote: On 05/09/2017 9:46 AM, Sonny wrote: ... As dpb alludes to, That may have been a poor choice of words, in reference to what you contributed. My statement was toward this small chair, thinking, when I first saw some of its issues, that the owner may have picked it up at some sale. .... Oh, no, not to worry!!! ::) I grok'ed the intent, just felt 'geezer time' comin' on. Actually, for the most part as you I enjoyed doing it and she actually made some pretty decent money for a part-time (mostly) hobby. They had their jollies in the hunting together, besides. -- |
Something Different For a Change
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:21:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Looks pretty old, I see some of those old timey screws in there. LOL Be sure and posts pictures of the end result. The brown fabric is original, but there were 2 more fabric layers underneath. Progress: Front legs & side rail are repaired... required reattaching the front corner braces. The backrest was too far gone, so I made a new upper backrest. New jute webbing & retied the spring set. As of this posting, the seat is reupholstered and I may finish upholstering the inside back this afternoon. Page right for more pics. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream Sonny |
Something Different For a Change
On 5/12/2017 4:35 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:21:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: Looks pretty old, I see some of those old timey screws in there. LOL Be sure and posts pictures of the end result. The brown fabric is original, but there were 2 more fabric layers underneath. Progress: Front legs & side rail are repaired... required reattaching the front corner braces. The backrest was too far gone, so I made a new upper backrest. New jute webbing & retied the spring set. As of this posting, the seat is reupholstered and I may finish upholstering the inside back this afternoon. Page right for more pics. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream Sonny Nice work, not my style, but I do appreciate what went into it. -- Jeff |
Something Different For a Change
Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:21:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: Looks pretty old, I see some of those old timey screws in there. LOL Be sure and posts pictures of the end result. The brown fabric is original, but there were 2 more fabric layers underneath. Progress: Front legs & side rail are repaired... required reattaching the front corner braces. The backrest was too far gone, so I made a new upper backrest. New jute webbing & retied the spring set. As of this posting, the seat is reupholstered and I may finish upholstering the inside back this afternoon. Page right for more pics. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream Sonny Looks great! |
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