Daughter using 1x2'some to make simple cabinet doors frames. After finishing all 4 doors, husband suggested that she might have used nicer quality Lumber. She switched from clear pine to birch.
Using birch (HD) every single stile splits when the screw gets tightened, even just slightly by hand.
Again, pockets are in rail, parallel to grain. Screen enters stile perpendicular to grain.
Screws are 1-1/4 inch.
What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?

Subject should have been Kreg

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:45:25 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Subject should have been Kreg

You are probably aware that there are different screws (finer thread) for hardwoods. Are the proper drill point screws being used? Consider lubricating the screws with beeswax (cheap and local source is a toilet gasket)

No, I was not aware. Thank you very much.

writes:
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:45:25 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Subject should have been Kreg

You are probably aware that there are different screws (finer thread) for hardwoods. Are the proper drill point screws being used? Consider lubricating the screws with beeswax (cheap and local source is a toilet gasket)

And set the torque correctly on your power driver.

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...
Daughter using 1x2'some to make simple cabinet doors frames. After
finishing all 4 doors, husband suggested that she might have used nicer
quality Lumber. She switched from clear pine to birch.
Using birch (HD) every single stile splits when the screw gets tightened,
even just slightly by hand.
Again, pockets are in rail, parallel to grain. Screen enters stile
perpendicular to grain.
Screws are 1-1/4 inch.
What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?

I don't use pockets but if I did and was having your problem I would assure
that the drilled hole was full screw length + a skosh into the stile. If I
still had probems I would use a bit with a slightly larger diameter.

Thanks dadiOH,
Unfortunately the specialized drill bit making the holes does not reach into the stile. It does leave a mark, but does not enter.

On 3/14/17 12:47 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Thanks dadiOH,
Unfortunately the specialized drill bit making the holes does not reach into the stile. It does leave a mark, but does not enter.


I does not have to reach into the material being fastened.
They are designed/manufactured with a drilling/cutting point.
They were designed very well to go into hardwood without pre-drilling or
splitting.
Only on rare occasions with extremely hard woods do you need to pre-drill.
I've done dozens and dozens of pocket hole connections in oak and the
only time I've had splits is when I used the wrong screw or I didn't
have thick enough material for the screw to enter. IOW, I went beyond
the capabilities of a pocket hole screw.

In a follow-up you stated you may have been using a softwood screw
instead of a hardwood screw. That is probably the problem.

A couple other things to consider...
1. As a matter of habit, I always try to stay as far away from the ends
of boards (the stile, in your case) as possible.
2. The birch from HD might very well be kiln dried and have a very low
moisture content making it prone to splitting.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
Ivan Vegvary wrote:

What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?

Ivan,

As was stated earlier, you need the fine threaded screws when working
with hardwoods.

This video gives a decent intro to the usage of the Kreg jig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvO6zaIUO18

At about the 5:00 mark, he shows the comparison between both screws. He
also shows a good technique for setting the proper drill depth.

Joe

Just Another Joe wrote:
In article ,
Ivan Vegvary wrote:

What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?

Ivan,

As was stated earlier, you need the fine threaded screws when working
with hardwoods.

This video gives a decent intro to the usage of the Kreg jig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvO6zaIUO18

At about the 5:00 mark, he shows the comparison between both screws. He
also shows a good technique for setting the proper drill depth.

Joe


One last thing. If the screw enters the stile too close to the end of the
piece it will also split the wood. Use the #7 fine thread pocket hole
screws, not ordinary wood screws.

I have also found that when you set the stop collar on the drill bit using the Kreg gauge, the drill barely (if ever) starts a hole in the second piece of wood. This causes the second piece to be initially pushed away from the first piece until the screw seats and pulls it back. Pulls it back but not always as precisely aligned as you would like. I like to set the stop collar a little higher on the drill bit so I get a little pilot action in the second piece. By all means, experiment on scrap first.



On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:44:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Daughter using 1x2'some to make simple cabinet doors frames. After finishing all 4 doors, husband suggested that she might have used nicer quality Lumber. She switched from clear pine to birch.
Using birch (HD) every single stile splits when the screw gets tightened, even just slightly by hand.
Again, pockets are in rail, parallel to grain. Screen enters stile perpendicular to grain.
Screws are 1-1/4 inch.
What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?

On 2017-03-15, Just Another Joe wrote:

This video gives a decent intro to the usage of the Kreg jig:

Howzabout some vids of pocket jigs made of metal. Or even jes some
info. I do my best not to buy plastic tools.

nb

notbob wrote:

On 2017-03-15, Just Another Joe wrote:

This video gives a decent intro to the usage of the Kreg jig:

Howzabout some vids of pocket jigs made of metal. Or even jes some
info. I do my best not to buy plastic tools.

nb

https://vimeo.com/125813103

http://www.harborfreight.com/portabl...kit-96264.html

HTH

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 09:21:08 -0700 (PDT), Bill Leonhardt
wrote:

I have also found that when you set the stop collar on the drill bit using the Kreg gauge, the drill barely (if ever) starts a hole in the second piece of wood. This causes the second piece to be initially pushed away from the first piece until the screw seats and pulls it back. Pulls it back but not always as precisely aligned as you would like. I like to set the stop collar a little higher on the drill bit so I get a little pilot action in the second piece. By all means, experiment on scrap first.

That's what clamps are for.

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:44:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Daughter using 1x2'some to make simple cabinet doors frames. After finishing all 4 doors, husband suggested that she might have used nicer quality Lumber. She switched from clear pine to birch.
Using birch (HD) every single stile splits when the screw gets tightened, even just slightly by hand.
Again, pockets are in rail, parallel to grain. Screen enters stile perpendicular to grain.
Screws are 1-1/4 inch.
What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?

On 3/15/2017 11:21 AM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:
I have also found that when you set the stop collar on the drill bit using the Kreg gauge, the drill barely (if ever) starts a hole in the second piece of wood. This causes the second piece to be initially pushed away from the first piece until the screw seats and pulls it back. Pulls it back but not always as precisely aligned as you would like. I like to set the stop collar a little higher on the drill bit so I get a little pilot action in the second piece. By all means, experiment on scrap first.



On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:44:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Daughter using 1x2'some to make simple cabinet doors frames. After finishing all 4 doors, husband suggested that she might have used nicer quality Lumber. She switched from clear pine to birch.
Using birch (HD) every single stile splits when the screw gets tightened, even just slightly by hand.
Again, pockets are in rail, parallel to grain. Screen enters stile perpendicular to grain.
Screws are 1-1/4 inch.
What gives? Pockets don't work on hard woods?



Keep in mind, and I learned this the hard way, that with the drill going
a little deeper the screw will come out the other side of the piece you
are attaching to if you are going into the face of 3/4" plywood.

On 3/15/2017 11:32 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2017-03-15, Just Another Joe wrote:

This video gives a decent intro to the usage of the Kreg jig:

Howzabout some vids of pocket jigs made of metal. Or even jes some
info. I do my best not to buy plastic tools.

nb


The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 4:16:47 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2017 11:32 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2017-03-15, Just Another Joe wrote:

This video gives a decent intro to the usage of the Kreg jig:

Howzabout some vids of pocket jigs made of metal. Or even jes some
info. I do my best not to buy plastic tools.

nb


The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

Another AP possible option:
https://www.amazon.com/CMT-PPJ-002-P...HMTHM2J4TFGGSV

On 2017-03-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

I certainly hope so!

Regardless, if I can buy an all metal one, why buy plastic? I'll
never buy anything from Kreg, cuz they can make 'em outta metal, but
choose plastic cuz it's cheaper.

Like I sed, I prefer NOT to buy plastic, if I can avoid it. Sometimes
I cannot.

nb

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 4:55:14 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2017-03-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

I certainly hope so!

Regardless, if I can buy an all metal one, why buy plastic? I'll
never buy anything from Kreg, cuz they can make 'em outta metal, but
choose plastic cuz it's cheaper.

Like I sed, I prefer NOT to buy plastic, if I can avoid it. Sometimes
I cannot.

nb

I have an older Kreg, looks like the one HF cloned...all metal body, only thing plastic is the clamp pad...my Kreg portable models are plastic with metal sleeves for the drill bit guide...

On 3/15/2017 11:21 AM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:
I have also found that when you set the stop collar on the drill bit
using the Kreg gauge, the drill barely (if ever) starts a hole in the
second piece of wood. This causes the second piece to be initially
pushed away from the first piece until the screw seats and pulls it
back. Pulls it back but not always as precisely aligned as you would
like. I like to set the stop collar a little higher on the drill bit
so I get a little pilot action in the second piece. By all means,
experiment on scrap first.


True enough, but that is not a problem if you clamp (using the face or
pocket clamp) as recommended. I will "cheat" occasionally and not clamp
- relying on a literal "hand clamp" to hold the pieces in place or start
the screw in the pocket and let it protrude just a hair before placing
the pieces together. That generally eliminates the problem.

On 3/15/2017 3:55 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2017-03-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

I certainly hope so!

Regardless, if I can buy an all metal one, why buy plastic?

Well, I do have an all metal Kreg jig that I bought many years ago.
Great tool except the plastic ones are better thought out. And I have
not worn one out yet. I much prefer lighter weight, built in risers,
and especially front clamping levers. I got really tired of reaching
around or over large panels to apply the clamp. And I got tired of
finding shims to keep the panels from tilting. And the blue Kregs have
dust collection that works extremely well. Humm and the blue Kregs
adjust more easily to multiple thicknesses of stock for clamping and for
drilling position.

Use a tool a lot you really start to appreciate light weight.

On 15 Mar 2017 20:55:11 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2017-03-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

I certainly hope so!

Regardless, if I can buy an all metal one, why buy plastic? I'll
never buy anything from Kreg, cuz they can make 'em outta metal, but
choose plastic cuz it's cheaper.

Like I sed, I prefer NOT to buy plastic, if I can avoid it. Sometimes
I cannot.

nb

Most of the all metal pocket hole jigs I have seen are not as
adjustable as a lot of kreg jigs are might be a reason not to allow
your prejudice against any plastic in a tool to blind you.

Markem wrote:

On 15 Mar 2017 20:55:11 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2017-03-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

I certainly hope so!

Regardless, if I can buy an all metal one, why buy plastic? I'll
never buy anything from Kreg, cuz they can make 'em outta metal, but
choose plastic cuz it's cheaper.

Like I sed, I prefer NOT to buy plastic, if I can avoid it. Sometimes
I cannot.

nb

Most of the all metal pocket hole jigs I have seen are not as
adjustable as a lot of kreg jigs are might be a reason not to allow
your prejudice against any plastic in a tool to blind you.

+1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00563TOTO/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-EbDMqR4qg

On 3/16/2017 5:54 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Markem wrote:

On 15 Mar 2017 20:55:11 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2017-03-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The guides on Kreg Jigs are metal.

I certainly hope so!

Regardless, if I can buy an all metal one, why buy plastic? I'll
never buy anything from Kreg, cuz they can make 'em outta metal, but
choose plastic cuz it's cheaper.

Like I sed, I prefer NOT to buy plastic, if I can avoid it. Sometimes
I cannot.

nb

Most of the all metal pocket hole jigs I have seen are not as
adjustable as a lot of kreg jigs are might be a reason not to allow
your prejudice against any plastic in a tool to blind you.

+1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00563TOTO/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-EbDMqR4qg

the problem with the "nonadjustable" jig is that it is designed for 3/4"
thick material. You can put 2 by material in it but the screws exit and
enter other 2 by material 3/8" from the edge.
Ideally all pocket hole screws should enter and exit the material near
the center of the material.