My neighbor is an incredible baker and her dream has been to open a
retail shop, which they just recently acquired. I'm helping her and her
husband get the space ready for opening. He bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.
(They also have some nice work tables made of BoosBlock butcher-block
which are really incredible. This cheap stuff he got does not even
compare to the BoosBlock.)

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood. I don't know if it's a wax or something
else injected deep into the wood or what. But it definitely will not
accept stain. After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond
spots around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos at
the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB

I know that knots are prone to seeping sap long after the lumber has
been cut and dried, so I suspect that is what this process is trying to
stop. But it sure as heck makes it difficult to finish. Good thing she
is going for a rustic look. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac before
applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some alcohol or
maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being endgrain, will
then take stain (as if you'd want that).

On 7/30/16 4:44 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap butcher-block top from an outlet
store for use as the countertop on the checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before? The
Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac
before applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some
alcohol or maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being
endgrain, will then take stain (as if you'd want that).


Shellac makes perfect sense for sealing knots. The problem with
whatever this process was is that it got so messy. There are other
knot-less spots on the top where obviously spilled whatever they were
using.

I used a pre-stain conditioner on the end-grain sides of the top so they
wouldn't darken up more than the top and that worked well.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/30/2016 5:44 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac before
applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some alcohol or
maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being endgrain, will
then take stain (as if you'd want that).

Shellac would accept some stain if you roughed it up.
I suspect it's not shellac.
Try some acetone to see if it loosens it up.


either way, try some dewaxed shellac, Zinsser sanding sealer.
see if it then accepts stain.


--
Jeff

On 7/30/16 9:03 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 7/30/2016 5:44 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac before
applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some alcohol or
maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being endgrain, will
then take stain (as if you'd want that).

Shellac would accept some stain if you roughed it up.
I suspect it's not shellac.
Try some acetone to see if it loosens it up.


either way, try some dewaxed shellac, Zinsser sanding sealer.
see if it then accepts stain.


I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

The entire surface was "roughed up" when it was sanded and still did
that in those spots.
What would acetone do? In other words, what uses acetone as a solvent?
Do you suspect something specific was used to seal the knots which the
acetone would disolve?

Are you suggesting dewaxed shellac or Sadning sealer because those two
things would accept stain?

Thanks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/30/2016 11:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/30/16 9:03 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 7/30/2016 5:44 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac before
applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some alcohol or
maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being endgrain, will
then take stain (as if you'd want that).

Shellac would accept some stain if you roughed it up.
I suspect it's not shellac.
Try some acetone to see if it loosens it up.


either way, try some dewaxed shellac, Zinsser sanding sealer.
see if it then accepts stain.


I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

The entire surface was "roughed up" when it was sanded and still did
that in those spots.
What would acetone do? In other words, what uses acetone as a solvent?
Do you suspect something specific was used to seal the knots which the
acetone would disolve?

Are you suggesting dewaxed shellac or Sadning sealer because those two
things would accept stain?

Thanks.


Hoping the acetone will disolve whatever around the knot.
Shellac or zinsser sanding sealer (which is dewaxed shellac) will accept
some stain. Not much, but it may get you a little closer, and it will
seal the problem area.


--
Jeff

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 22:07:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/30/16 9:03 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 7/30/2016 5:44 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac before
applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some alcohol or
maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being endgrain, will
then take stain (as if you'd want that).

Shellac would accept some stain if you roughed it up.
I suspect it's not shellac.
Try some acetone to see if it loosens it up.


either way, try some dewaxed shellac, Zinsser sanding sealer.
see if it then accepts stain.


I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

The entire surface was "roughed up" when it was sanded and still did
that in those spots.
What would acetone do? In other words, what uses acetone as a solvent?
Do you suspect something specific was used to seal the knots which the
acetone would disolve?

Are you suggesting dewaxed shellac or Sadning sealer because those two
things would accept stain?

Thanks.

Mike if it came from China who knows, I am betting on an epoxy though
and a sloppy job applying.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

On that note, let me nit pick and say that the top is not butcher block.
Butcher block is end grain, not face grain.

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 11:14:49 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:

Mike if it came from China who knows, I am betting on an epoxy though
and a sloppy job applying.

I would agree, it's likely some sort of epoxy or epoxy-like product.

As is, I would not consider it a "rustic" character.

In the second pic, the left "repair", where two "slats"/boards are mated, the blemish on one board is different, than on the adjacent board. That's a little odd. If all the boards are of the same wood, I wouldn't expect that much of a difference in the effect, shown there.

You say they will settle with it, as is. If you have a chance, maybe tone, with dark walnut, some shellac and apply with a Q-tip.

Touching up with a brown felt pen or Marks-A-Lot might be an option, also. Testing any of these options, at least on one spot, can't be as unsightly as what's presently there.

It's not uncommon to do touch up repairs with artists paints and the like, so a spot testing may be available.

Is there similar repairs on the underside of the countertop? If so, do the testing, there.

Sonny

On 07/30/2016 4:32 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
....

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood. I don't know if it's a wax or something
else injected deep into the wood or what. But it definitely will not
accept stain. After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond
spots around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos at
the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB
....

As someone else suggested, I'd wager it's an epoxy dribbled on to
stabilize the knot area and as such probably no chance to dissolve it or
otherwise get it to "accept" stain; you'll have to essentially paint
those areas.

Talk to these guys for ideas/products...

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=14

How much time/money/effort are they/you willing to invest in this?

--


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:14:56 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 22:07:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/30/16 9:03 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 7/30/2016 5:44 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
My neighbor ... bought some cheap
butcher-block top from an outlet store for use as the countertop on the
checkout cabinets.

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

One traditional way to treat knots, was to seal them with shellac before
applying any other finish. That, can be removed with some alcohol or
maybe glycerine, and a scrub pad. The knots, being endgrain, will
then take stain (as if you'd want that).

Shellac would accept some stain if you roughed it up.
I suspect it's not shellac.
Try some acetone to see if it loosens it up.


either way, try some dewaxed shellac, Zinsser sanding sealer.
see if it then accepts stain.


I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

The entire surface was "roughed up" when it was sanded and still did
that in those spots.
What would acetone do? In other words, what uses acetone as a solvent?
Do you suspect something specific was used to seal the knots which the
acetone would disolve?

Are you suggesting dewaxed shellac or Sadning sealer because those two
things would accept stain?

Thanks.

Mike if it came from China who knows, I am betting on an epoxy though
and a sloppy job applying.

UV curing?

"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...

After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond
spots around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos at
the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB

To my eye, that looks awful... I'd be tempted to use a card scraper and
scrape those areas until water soaks in. Then let it dry, sand the entire
thing and start the finishing process over...

With that dark stain, specifically sealing the knots may not even matter
unless it is a resinous wood.

On 7/31/16 7:55 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 11:14:49 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:

Mike if it came from China who knows, I am betting on an epoxy
though and a sloppy job applying.

I would agree, it's likely some sort of epoxy or epoxy-like product.

As is, I would not consider it a "rustic" character.


They do, that's all that matters. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/31/16 8:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 07/30/2016 4:32 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
...

Anyway... has anyone run into this phenomenon before?
The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood. I don't know if it's a wax or something
else injected deep into the wood or what. But it definitely will not
accept stain. After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond
spots around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos at
the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB
...

As someone else suggested, I'd wager it's an epoxy dribbled on to
stabilize the knot area and as such probably no chance to dissolve it or
otherwise get it to "accept" stain; you'll have to essentially paint
those areas.

Talk to these guys for ideas/products...

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=14

How much time/money/effort are they/you willing to invest in this?


Not much.... more. Not my project.

The husband is a former marine so he definitely has a gung-ho attitude
about doing things himself. I'm helping, pro bono, with the things he
can't do or doesn't have the tools to do, like cutting and joining the
top at a 90 like in the picture.

After he stained it, I noticed the spot and was curious enough to post
about it.

Now I know I will not be buying any of those cheap tops for my own use
unless it's just for a workbench.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/31/16 10:30 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...

After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond
spots around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos at
the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB

To my eye, that looks awful... I'd be tempted to use a card scraper and
scrape those areas until water soaks in. Then let it dry, sand the
entire thing and start the finishing process over...


If it was a furniture piece, I would agree with you.
But this is a just a utility, check-out counter top that will be covered
with stuff, practically every square inch. Code says anything wood in a
place that prepares food has to be sealed. So she was like, "Stain it
dark, put a sealer on it, I need to open my store."

We need to install this sumbich so she can start selling cakes! :-)

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 10:06:52 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:14:56 -0500, Markem
wrote:

Mike if it came from China who knows, I am betting on an epoxy though
and a sloppy job applying.

UV curing?

Probably not, five minute epoxy from a dispenser and a piece of scrap
for a scraper. But that is a wag.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 11:02:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

We need to install this sumbich so she can start selling cakes! :-)

So do you get any free cake?

On 7/31/16 11:32 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 11:02:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

We need to install this sumbich so she can start selling cakes! :-)

So do you get any free cake?


You have no idea.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 11:44:18 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/31/16 11:32 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 11:02:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

We need to install this sumbich so she can start selling cakes! :-)

So do you get any free cake?


You have no idea.

Well be careful that stuff goes to the waist line faster than beer.

On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 7:06:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:14:56 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 22:07:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/30/16 9:03 PM, woodchucker wrote:

The Taiwanese factory seems to use some sort of wax of other treatment
on all the knots in the wood.

Mike if it came from China who knows, I am betting on an epoxy though
and a sloppy job applying.

UV curing?

Nowadays, that'd be a good possibility.
If the knot were sappy (like knotty pine) it could ruin epoxy (dissolve into the epoxy
before it cured). UV curing finishes are so fast, that would be less of a problem.
Shellac (alcohol thinned) dries fast, too.

Epoxy is used to treat loose knots, where expense is unimportant. Wouldn't expect
to see mass-produced tabletops held up on the assembly line while epoxy cures.
Wax is unlikely, because it would just dissolve in any spirit-based stain, lacquer, paint.

On 7/31/2016 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/31/16 10:30 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...

After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond
spots around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos at
the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB

To my eye, that looks awful... I'd be tempted to use a card scraper and
scrape those areas until water soaks in. Then let it dry, sand the
entire thing and start the finishing process over...


If it was a furniture piece, I would agree with you.
But this is a just a utility, check-out counter top that will be covered
with stuff, practically every square inch. Code says anything wood in a
place that prepares food has to be sealed.


I wonder what code says about a butcher block in a butcher shop. And or
if they are even allowed anymore. Seems the plastic boards are more
common place these days.

On 7/31/16 11:51 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 11:44:18 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 7/31/16 11:32 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 11:02:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

We need to install this sumbich so she can start selling
cakes! :-)

So do you get any free cake?


You have no idea.

Well be careful that stuff goes to the waist line faster than beer.


When we first moved in next door to them, after a few months my wife had
to kindly ask her stop bringing us so much stuff. We were indeed
gaining weight.

She's a world class baker who studied under Julia Child and went to some
prestigious culinary school out in SoCal, so it's easy to eat any and
all of whatever she brings us.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/31/16 12:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 7/31/2016 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/31/16 10:30 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...

After my neighbor stained the top, there were blank/blond spots
around all the knots, which you can clearly see in the photos
at the link below.

https://goo.gl/zKA0pB

To my eye, that looks awful... I'd be tempted to use a card
scraper and scrape those areas until water soaks in. Then let it
dry, sand the entire thing and start the finishing process
over...


If it was a furniture piece, I would agree with you. But this is a
just a utility, check-out counter top that will be covered with
stuff, practically every square inch. Code says anything wood in
a place that prepares food has to be sealed.


I wonder what code says about a butcher block in a butcher shop. And
or if they are even allowed anymore. Seems the plastic boards are
more common place these days.


What's funny is that, from what I read, those plastic boards harbor
bacteria much easier than butcher block. And it takes way too much
cleaner/bleach/whatever to truly clean them.

Ironically, the previous tenant of their new retail space was a butcher
shop called, "The Carnivore Shop." The entire place still smells like
smoked meat... in other words, like heaven. :-) Once they seal up
the the exhaust pipe from the old smoker, it'll have a chance to smell
like a bakery.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/31/2016 2:05 PM, -MIKE- wrote:



When we first moved in next door to them, after a few months my wife had
to kindly ask her stop bringing us so much stuff. We were indeed
gaining weight.

She's a world class baker who studied under Julia Child and went to some
prestigious culinary school out in SoCal, so it's easy to eat any and
all of whatever she brings us.



sounds like the has the ability. Hope she has the right location and
clientele for success. We have one OK bakery around here. Good bread,
mediocre pastry. I'd probably become a regular of hers.

On Sunday, 31 July 2016 11:29:26 UTC+1, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

On that note, let me nit pick and say that the top is not butcher block.
Butcher block is end grain, not face grain.

Yep, I agree.

On 7/31/16 1:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/31/2016 2:05 PM, -MIKE- wrote:



When we first moved in next door to them, after a few months my
wife had to kindly ask her stop bringing us so much stuff. We were
indeed gaining weight.

She's a world class baker who studied under Julia Child and went to
some prestigious culinary school out in SoCal, so it's easy to eat
any and all of whatever she brings us.



sounds like the has the ability. Hope she has the right location
and clientele for success. We have one OK bakery around here. Good
bread, mediocre pastry. I'd probably become a regular of hers.

Great location. There's an historical square in Franklin, TN. Lots of
tourists and local regulars walking the area all the time. Lots of
festivals on the square about every month. Biggest problem is parking
and clutter when too many people are there. Her shop is just off the
square with parking. So she'll get the tourists and locals.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/31/16 2:17 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 11:29:26 UTC+1, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

On that note, let me nit pick and say that the top is not butcher block.
Butcher block is end grain, not face grain.

Yep, I agree.


I agree, too. It is indeed nitpicking. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 7/31/16 2:17 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 11:29:26 UTC+1, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the
shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

On that note, let me nit pick and say that the top is not butcher block.
Butcher block is end grain, not face grain.

Yep, I agree.


I agree, too. It is indeed nitpicking. :-p

Hey, SOMEBODY has to do it

On 7/31/16 4:01 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 7/31/16 2:17 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 11:29:26 UTC+1, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the
shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

On that note, let me nit pick and say that the top is not butcher block.
Butcher block is end grain, not face grain.

Yep, I agree.


I agree, too. It is indeed nitpicking. :-p

Hey, SOMEBODY has to do it


It would be the Wrec room without it!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/31/2016 3:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/31/16 2:17 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 11:29:26 UTC+1, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

I think they're going to run with it the way it is.
They like the rustic look for the historical part of town where the
shop
is located.

However, I like the education for future projects.

On that note, let me nit pick and say that the top is not butcher block.
Butcher block is end grain, not face grain.

Yep, I agree.


I agree, too. It is indeed nitpicking. :-p



LOL

On 7/31/2016 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

So she was like, "Stain it dark, put a sealer on it, I need to open my
store."

However, I like the education for future projects.

The mantra I sing in those circumstances, to the tune of "You pays your
money, you takes your chances", is: "want it to look like (X)wood?" Use
(X)wood".



I'm helping, pro bono, with the things he can't do or doesn't have the
tools to do, like cutting and joining the top at a 90 like in the
picture.

That wide of non nondescript, Asian wood, glued up into a panel may be
replaced soon enough anyway.

... that cross grain join have room to move?

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/1/16 8:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/31/2016 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

So she was like, "Stain it dark, put a sealer on it, I need to open
my store."

However, I like the education for future projects.

The mantra I sing in those circumstances, to the tune of "You pays
your money, you takes your chances", is: "want it to look like
(X)wood?" Use (X)wood".



I'm helping, pro bono, with the things he can't do or doesn't have
the tools to do, like cutting and joining the top at a 90 like in
the picture.

That wide of non nondescript, Asian wood, glued up into a panel may
be replaced soon enough anyway.

... that cross grain join have room to move?


Heck no. When he was first looking at these cheap tops to buy, I gave
him the whole caveat emptor, I told him that they don't check grain
position at those factories or use good species or good pieces of
whatever species they do use. I told him they may be cheap, but the
ends are going to crack if they haven't already, they're going to warp
(cup) if they haven't already, and many of the glue joints may fail. I
knew all that because I've been to the closeout store where he got them
and I've seen the stacks and looked through them. I told him to cherry
pick the "best" one and he did. Even this one had several splits on the
ends.

We were going to do a 45degree joint, but that would've eaten up too
much length. I said, we can can go with a 90 but we'll probably get
some more cracks and he said, "that's ok, it'll match the cracks in the
ends." :-) More rustic-ness.

I used pocket screws as clamps, so at the thing will stay together if it
splits too much.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/1/2016 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/1/16 8:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/31/2016 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

So she was like, "Stain it dark, put a sealer on it, I need to open
my store."

However, I like the education for future projects.

The mantra I sing in those circumstances, to the tune of "You pays
your money, you takes your chances", is: "want it to look like
(X)wood?" Use (X)wood".



I'm helping, pro bono, with the things he can't do or doesn't have
the tools to do, like cutting and joining the top at a 90 like in
the picture.

That wide of non nondescript, Asian wood, glued up into a panel may
be replaced soon enough anyway.

... that cross grain join have room to move?


Heck no. When he was first looking at these cheap tops to buy, I gave
him the whole caveat emptor, I told him that they don't check grain
position at those factories or use good species or good pieces of
whatever species they do use. I told him they may be cheap, but the
ends are going to crack if they haven't already, they're going to warp
(cup) if they haven't already, and many of the glue joints may fail. I
knew all that because I've been to the closeout store where he got them
and I've seen the stacks and looked through them. I told him to cherry
pick the "best" one and he did. Even this one had several splits on the
ends.

We were going to do a 45degree joint, but that would've eaten up too
much length. I said, we can can go with a 90 but we'll probably get
some more cracks and he said, "that's ok, it'll match the cracks in the
ends." :-) More rustic-ness.

I used pocket screws as clamps, so at the thing will stay together if it
splits too much.

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but there is a limit ...

Refused to do a return on window trim by butting drywall against a
single pane of a row of plate glass windows, this on a roughly $250k
remodel.

Client was highly ****ed when I refused to do it. But not more ****ed as
I was at being asked to do something so damned wrong. Told them I could
find a carpenter who would do their window return trim, and that they
could hire and pay him separately from the main job. They did.

Handled it as a change order, described and annotated so there was a
record that it was not part of the original contract.

No doubt in my mind that sometime in the future someone would walk by
those windows, see that drywall molded from condensation, clearly
visible from outside, and want to know who the GC/builder was?

Screw you ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/1/16 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/1/2016 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/1/16 8:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/31/2016 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

So she was like, "Stain it dark, put a sealer on it, I need to
open my store."

However, I like the education for future projects.

The mantra I sing in those circumstances, to the tune of "You
pays your money, you takes your chances", is: "want it to look
like (X)wood?" Use (X)wood".



I'm helping, pro bono, with the things he can't do or doesn't
have the tools to do, like cutting and joining the top at a 90
like in the picture.

That wide of non nondescript, Asian wood, glued up into a panel
may be replaced soon enough anyway.

... that cross grain join have room to move?


Heck no. When he was first looking at these cheap tops to buy, I
gave him the whole caveat emptor, I told him that they don't check
grain position at those factories or use good species or good
pieces of whatever species they do use. I told him they may be
cheap, but the ends are going to crack if they haven't already,
they're going to warp (cup) if they haven't already, and many of
the glue joints may fail. I knew all that because I've been to the
closeout store where he got them and I've seen the stacks and
looked through them. I told him to cherry pick the "best" one and
he did. Even this one had several splits on the ends.

We were going to do a 45degree joint, but that would've eaten up
too much length. I said, we can can go with a 90 but we'll
probably get some more cracks and he said, "that's ok, it'll match
the cracks in the ends." :-) More rustic-ness.

I used pocket screws as clamps, so at the thing will stay together
if it splits too much.

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but there is a limit ...

Refused to do a return on window trim by butting drywall against a
single pane of a row of plate glass windows, this on a roughly $250k
remodel.

Client was highly ****ed when I refused to do it. But not more ****ed
as I was at being asked to do something so damned wrong. Told them I
could find a carpenter who would do their window return trim, and
that they could hire and pay him separately from the main job. They
did.

Handled it as a change order, described and annotated so there was a
record that it was not part of the original contract.

No doubt in my mind that sometime in the future someone would walk
by those windows, see that drywall molded from condensation, clearly
visible from outside, and want to know who the GC/builder was?

Screw you ...


Yeah, in this case I'm just helping out a neighbor. They have a dream
of a retail bakery shop and I'm happy to help them realize that dream.
You reap what you sow. Plenty of folks have helps me out along the way
in my life, so I'm happy... overjoyed... to return the favor.

In this Ikea age in which we live, "fine woodworking" is a dying breed,
so I'll sow the seeds of friendship and not sweat the quality issues of
this build-out. I won't be stenciling my name on the results, but I'll
happily exchange the good will for my pride in this case.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply