I received an e-mail from a trades publication and the reporter took a
tour of a tool store in Germany.

It was very interesting to see the different type tools offered. As the
title indicates, DeWalt sells, in Germany, a CSMS, TS combo unit.

If you click on the link and click on the slide show it will take you to
50 pictures of the German tool store and the products that they sell.

If you go to picture number 10 you will see the odd DeWalt saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/tools...c05c6eecb92632

On 2016-06-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

If you go to picture number 10 you will see the odd DeWalt saw.

The caption sez most Euro companies make a similar tool (CSMS/TS
combo). Kinda makes one wonder what they know that we don't.

nb

On 6/15/2016 11:24 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-06-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

If you go to picture number 10 you will see the odd DeWalt saw.

The caption sez most Euro companies make a similar tool (CSMS/TS
combo). Kinda makes one wonder what they know that we don't.

nb


Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body. And although the machine was modified by the operator the
attorneys would paint the picture that the saw is capable of serving two
purposes therefore it is twice as dangerous.

notbob writes:
On 2016-06-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

If you go to picture number 10 you will see the odd DeWalt saw.

The caption sez most Euro companies make a similar tool (CSMS/TS
combo).

Given the average size of a home or flat in europe, and the
general lack of garages, a combination machine makes much sense.

On 6/15/2016 12:19 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
notbob writes:
On 2016-06-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

If you go to picture number 10 you will see the odd DeWalt saw.

The caption sez most Euro companies make a similar tool (CSMS/TS
combo).

Given the average size of a home or flat in europe, and the
general lack of garages, a combination machine makes much sense.



Yeah! And especially for the hobbyist or home owner. I noticed that
Festool has portable TS's in there also.

And as the pictures show, Jet seems to have a pretty good representation
but no Delta or Powermatic.

On 15 Jun 2016 16:24:45 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-06-15, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

If you go to picture number 10 you will see the odd DeWalt saw.

The caption sez most Euro companies make a similar tool (CSMS/TS
combo). Kinda makes one wonder what they know that we don't.

We have more space and lawyers.

krw wrote in news:0s34mbtds9868e3abc3a8thp8l0nav8tu1@
4ax.com:


We have more space and lawyers.

We also need to export more products. I rather like the space, so how
about we export the lawyers?

Puckdropper

On 16 Jun 2016 04:05:10 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

krw wrote in news:0s34mbtds9868e3abc3a8thp8l0nav8tu1@
4ax.com:


We have more space and lawyers.

We also need to export more products. I rather like the space, so how
about we export the lawyers?

....and give away a free sixpack of politicians with every order.

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

Seems to me a good attorney could sue SS for a bunch for not licensing
their technology for the well being of all peoples. As it is they are
suing DeWalt for their "better than SS" system, as well as a less
costs to get back in operation.

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

Seems to me a good attorney could sue SS for a bunch for not licensing
their technology for the well being of all peoples. As it is they are
suing DeWalt for their "better than SS" system, as well as a less
costs to get back in operation.


Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

Seems to me a good attorney could sue SS for a bunch for not licensing
their technology for the well being of all peoples. As it is they are
suing DeWalt for their "better than SS" system, as well as a less
costs to get back in operation.


Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

I didn't know that. If so then their butts are well protected.
I do like DeWalts less expensive method.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

Seems to me a good attorney could sue SS for a bunch for not licensing
their technology for the well being of all peoples. As it is they are
suing DeWalt for their "better than SS" system, as well as a less
costs to get back in operation.


Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

I didn't know that. If so then their butts are well protected.
I do like DeWalts less expensive method.

The offered it for a high price. Contrast that with Mercedes-Benz that
make their antiskid braking technology available at no cost.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

Seems to me a good attorney could sue SS for a bunch for not licensing
their technology for the well being of all peoples. As it is they are
suing DeWalt for their "better than SS" system, as well as a less
costs to get back in operation.


Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

I didn't know that. If so then their butts are well protected.
I do like DeWalts less expensive method.

The offered it for a high price. Contrast that with Mercedes-Benz that
make their antiskid braking technology available at no cost.


High price is relative. SS in general is high priced so why would any one
expect to pay less for that technology than the patent holder?
And SS offers their blade brake technology at no cost to the consumer also
when you buy a SS saw.

On 2016-06-24 6:15 AM, Leon wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:06:52 -0500, Leon wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400, Jack wrote:

On 6/15/2016 12:41 PM, Leon wrote:

Well in the case of the DeWalt combo SCMS/TS, DeWalt does know that with
our idiot court/attorney system that surely someone in the US will harm
themselves by removing the guard and and cutting something off of their
body.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/manuf...ng-technology_

Seems in Utah they'd be ok, Florida not so much.

Seems to me with the Florida judge, no one except SS should make/sell
saws. The moron judge thinks all saws need flesh eating tech, another
court thinks SS owns the tech, so all saws except SS are unsafe, and
open to law suits. Probably not a good time to be selling any saw in the
US other than SS.

Seems to me a good attorney could sue SS for a bunch for not licensing
their technology for the well being of all peoples. As it is they are
suing DeWalt for their "better than SS" system, as well as a less
costs to get back in operation.


Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

I didn't know that. If so then their butts are well protected.
I do like DeWalts less expensive method.

The offered it for a high price. Contrast that with Mercedes-Benz that
make their antiskid braking technology available at no cost.


High price is relative. SS in general is high priced so why would any one
expect to pay less for that technology than the patent holder?
And SS offers their blade brake technology at no cost to the consumer also
when you buy a SS saw.

I have patented a saw with beer break technology, nobody will
manufacture it for me.

--
Froz....

On 06/23/2016 5:34 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:06:52 -0500, wrote:
....

Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

I didn't know that. If so then their butts are well protected.
I do like DeWalts less expensive method.

No American manufacturer was willing to sign up for the deal as offered
by Gass for various reasons, licensing cost being only one. There was a
pretty thorough synopsis in FWW a number of years ago.

I think any resemblance to any particular other saw on the market is
mostly coincidental; that it looks more like a PM2000 than some of the
others is likely owing simply to what was in style at the time of design...

I really don't know the route SS used to get to manufacturing; whether
he hired in-house talent entirely or sublet design; either way one can
be pretty certain that the competitors' products were thoroughly studied
in the process.

--

FrozenNorth wrote:

I have patented a saw with beer break technology, nobody will
manufacture it for me.

Hopefully it performs better than the cheese-break technology. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxK3vPUlIn4

On 6/24/2016 8:33 AM, dpb wrote:
On 06/23/2016 5:34 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:06:52 -0500, wrote:
...

Actually SS offered the technology to many manufacturers and IIRC all
but
one turned them down. If I had to guess which one it would be
Powermatic.
IIRC I saw a SS they looked like a PM2000 way back when.

I didn't know that. If so then their butts are well protected.
I do like DeWalts less expensive method.

No American manufacturer was willing to sign up for the deal as offered
by Gass for various reasons, licensing cost being only one. There was a
pretty thorough synopsis in FWW a number of years ago.


I think any resemblance to any particular other saw on the market is
mostly coincidental; that it looks more like a PM2000 than some of the
others is likely owing simply to what was in style at the time of design...

I would agree, what is under the hood of the SS is way different than
what any American manufacturer has. The "look a like SS PM2000" only
showed the cabinet and table top. That really means nothing as the guts
of the SS could probably be put in any cabinet with minor modifications.
But one manufacturer originally signed with SS and then later backed
out. I would be willing to bet that it was PM.

The SS set up is more European IIRC, the blade moves "straight" up and
down guided by a couple of large diameter steel dowels, at least that is
how the industrial version is built.




I really don't know the route SS used to get to manufacturing; whether
he hired in-house talent entirely or sublet design; either way one can
be pretty certain that the competitors' products were thoroughly studied
in the process.

I suspect that the majority of the cost for the competitors would have
been more heavy on redesign of the workings of the saw.
The SS has dealt a serious blow to the competition. The gamble was a
double edged sword for the competition. Spend the money to sell a
competitive saw with this technology and hope that this is what the
public wants or sit tight, do nothing, and see if the SS can survive.

SS absolutely survived but it is quite iffy for some, especially Delta.
Delta drastically changed the Unisaw a few years back and it appears to
be a flop. It seems to me that if they were going to do a total
redesign that they would offer something other than what many seem to
think is less. That redesign would have been the time to pony up and
offer SS technology. Unfortunately they and others may have burned some
bridges with SS.

On 06/24/2016 9:06 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/24/2016 8:33 AM, dpb wrote:
....

But one manufacturer originally signed with SS and then later backed
out. I would be willing to bet that it was PM.

I don't recall ever seeing/hearing negotiations ever got that far along
with anybody...suppose it's possible; I wasn't invited to the various
parties... Not that it really matters in the end as nobody did bite.

....

SS absolutely survived but it is quite iffy for some, especially Delta.
Delta drastically changed the Unisaw a few years back and it appears to
be a flop. It seems to me that if they were going to do a total redesign
that they would offer something other than what many seem to think is
less. That redesign would have been the time to pony up and offer SS
technology. Unfortunately they and others may have burned some bridges
with SS.
....

Delta's problems are _FAR_ more deeply-rooted than simply SS--they're
simply not what they were before the sale-off to Delta PEC. They've
become only a slightly more expensive HF imo as far as quality compared
to vintage Delta-Rockwell vintage gear.

--

On 6/24/2016 12:50 PM, dpb wrote:
On 06/24/2016 9:06 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/24/2016 8:33 AM, dpb wrote:
...

But one manufacturer originally signed with SS and then later backed
out. I would be willing to bet that it was PM.

I don't recall ever seeing/hearing negotiations ever got that far along
with anybody...suppose it's possible; I wasn't invited to the various
parties... Not that it really matters in the end as nobody did bite.

Exactly. I kept a pretty close eye on SS from the very beginning,
Having lost half my thumb on my first TS I had a great interest.
But yes, that is all in the past and does not affect anything now.



...

SS absolutely survived but it is quite iffy for some, especially Delta.
Delta drastically changed the Unisaw a few years back and it appears to
be a flop. It seems to me that if they were going to do a total redesign
that they would offer something other than what many seem to think is
less. That redesign would have been the time to pony up and offer SS
technology. Unfortunately they and others may have burned some bridges
with SS.
...

Delta's problems are _FAR_ more deeply-rooted than simply SS--they're
simply not what they were before the sale-off to Delta PEC. They've
become only a slightly more expensive HF imo as far as quality compared
to vintage Delta-Rockwell vintage gear.

--
There is that too. I understand that the new Unisaw has not filled the
big shoes of the much earlier Unisaws.

The presence of SS cannot be discounted even for/against the better
brands sales. I just do not see the variety of TS's in the WW stores
these days. As litigation happy as this country has become I can
understand even the retailers being leery of selling saws with out the
technology. Not saying that they will not sell other than SS but SS is
in most serious WW stores but not the variety of 15 years ago.

When I was still in the automotive business we sold wholesale
AC/Delco/3M parts to GM dealers. We had a healthy insurance policy to
protect us should there be a lawsuit involving a GM part that we sold to
be resold.

About all I see these days are PM, Jet, and SS. Gone from most stores
in Houston are the Unisaw, the Dewalt hybrid cabinet saw, and Steel City.