This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more lighting in my wife's sewing
studio. She has a 3'x5' cutting table and has wanted over head lighting
for that and she has a sewing machine, specifically a "long arm" sewing
machine that needs overhead lighting also. That requires a narrow but
11' long light set up.

Anyway I have been using the Armacost brand LED lighting from Lee
Valley. It has been in the ball park on pricing up until recently.

Lee Valley

8' roll of 18 LEDs per foot runs about $42.
Transformer min 15 watt about $23.
Remote control/dimmer about $36.
Connectors, wiring, about $5


Plus shipping.
And made in China.

Amazon Hero LED Kit

16.5' roll of 36 LEDs per foot
Transformer 60 watt
Remote Control/dimmer
Connectors, wiring

Shipped Free

Made in China

$49.99 Total


To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

To get the same length and density of lights from LV would cost $149
plus a $50 transformer.

I should have the Amazon Hero lights on Thursday.

On 5/3/2016 2:05 PM, Leon wrote:


In case some one is interested, here is a link to the Amazon LED kit.
It pretty much has everything you would need.

http://www.amazon.com/HERO-LED-5M600...ilpage_o00_s00

On 5/3/2016 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 5/3/2016 2:05 PM, Leon wrote:


In case some one is interested, here is a link to the Amazon LED kit. It
pretty much has everything you would need.

http://www.amazon.com/HERO-LED-5M600...ilpage_o00_s00

Topical...

Need to replace the cove lighting in my stairwell, but was thinking
about getting the driverless strip. Need 60lf.

Hard to find prices as it is to find product.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 2:48:22 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

Topical...

Yep.

I ordered one for above my sewing machine. My little elbow(?)-armed lamp isn't bright enough.

Last week, or so, discussion of T8 fixtures and bulbs. Yall jinxed me. Had a 4 yr old (4 bulb fixture) T8 ballast quit last week. Replaced it this morning.... *upholstery shop.

Sonny

On 5/3/2016 2:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/3/2016 2:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 5/3/2016 2:05 PM, Leon wrote:


In case some one is interested, here is a link to the Amazon LED kit. It
pretty much has everything you would need.

http://www.amazon.com/HERO-LED-5M600...ilpage_o00_s00


Topical...

Need to replace the cove lighting in my stairwell, but was thinking
about getting the driverless strip. Need 60lf.

Hard to find prices as it is to find product.


With 40' to spare but 110 volt. Shorter and longer available.

http://www.amazon.com/Starshine-Wate...rds=rope+light

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:05:49 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more...

To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

That's not necesssarily a difference. Your lamps look like 'an LED'
but actually might be modules with three in series, or (not uncommon)
modules of nine (three in series, paralleled in three rows). I have
ribbon lights rated for 20 mA per 50 mm segment, and others rated at
55 mA per 50mm segment, and have seen a variety of other configurations.

What DOES matter, is watts/segment energy use rating and lumens/watt
efficiency numbers, but those are rarely available. For reference, the
adhesive might melt if you go over 1-2 watts/50mm segment,
and the efficiency of a very good LED can be 140 lm/watt (60 to 90 is common).

The LV units mentioned, using 15W per 8 feet, use 0.3W per 50mm
The Amazon offering, at 60W per 16.5 feet, uses 0.6W per 50mm

whit3rd wrote in
:

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:05:49 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more...

To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

What DOES matter, is watts/segment energy use rating and lumens/watt
efficiency numbers, but those are rarely available.

I'm sure that what matters to Leon is how much light comes
out. And you are correct, there is a wide variety of LEDs
and it's not a given, or even likely, that twice as many
LEDs will give twice as much light (unless you know they are
the same model of LED).

The LV units mentioned, using 15W per 8 feet, use 0.3W per 50mm
The Amazon offering, at 60W per 16.5 feet, uses 0.6W per 50mm

You're making an invalid assumption, that the LEDs use as
much power as the supply is capable of. The Amazon part
actually uses 24W per 16.5 feet. The Lee Valley uses 12.8W
per 8 feet. They are essentially the same.

John

On 5/3/2016 4:32 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:05:49 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more...

To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

That's not necesssarily a difference. Your lamps look like 'an LED'
but actually might be modules with three in series, or (not uncommon)
modules of nine (three in series, paralleled in three rows). I have
ribbon lights rated for 20 mA per 50 mm segment, and others rated at
55 mA per 50mm segment, and have seen a variety of other configurations.

? What are you trying to say here? If this helps I am using the
smaller 3528 LEDs vs the larger 5050 LEDs which require more wattage.



What DOES matter, is watts/segment energy use rating and lumens/watt
efficiency numbers, but those are rarely available. For reference, the
adhesive might melt if you go over 1-2 watts/50mm segment,
and the efficiency of a very good LED can be 140 lm/watt (60 to 90 is common).

I know the watts that the lighting uses, I mentioned the needed size of
the transformer/power supply needed for each "whole" string. If I cut
the string shorter I will not need as large of power supply.

FWIW the LV LED 8' string with 3 per 2" uses about 14 watts. I miss
quoted the above power supply and that would be marginally more
expensive, ideally it should be the next size up, 30 watts, so as to not
be running full bore.

The Hero 16'string with 3 LED's per inch uses 48 watts, a 60 watt power
supply should be adequate.


All of this assuming that the wire to deliver the power to the LEDs is
heavy enough gauge to prevent voltage drop. I simply use regular lamp
cord, 16ga. IIRC, plenty heavy.




The LV units mentioned, using 15W per 8 feet, use 0.3W per 50mm
The Amazon offering, at 60W per 16.5 feet, uses 0.6W per 50mm


Actually usage of for the strings is 14 watts and 48 watts respectively
for the whole strings.

Earlier I was stating the power supply size, not the actually rating of
the strings.

On 5/3/2016 5:35 PM, John McCoy wrote:
whit3rd wrote in
:

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:05:49 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more...

To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

What DOES matter, is watts/segment energy use rating and lumens/watt
efficiency numbers, but those are rarely available.

I'm sure that what matters to Leon is how much light comes
out.

Yeah. ;~)


And you are correct, there is a wide variety of LEDs
and it's not a given, or even likely, that twice as many
LEDs will give twice as much light (unless you know they are
the same model of LED).

I am hoping that the LED's I am getting will be close to double the
light out put given the actual LEDs are the exact same size, 3528 but
double the density. If I were using the 5050 LEDs I could probably
settle for 3 per 2" but those are harder to find at a good price.



The LV units mentioned, using 15W per 8 feet, use 0.3W per 50mm
The Amazon offering, at 60W per 16.5 feet, uses 0.6W per 50mm

You're making an invalid assumption, that the LEDs use as
much power as the supply is capable of. The Amazon part
actually uses 24W per 16.5 feet. The Lee Valley uses 12.8W
per 8 feet. They are essentially the same.

John


Right, the strings actually use less, ideally the PS should supply about
1/3 more power than what the string will consume. And or the string
should not be more than 3/4 of the PS rating.

I will restate that the 15 watt LV transformer that I mentioned
originally should actually be the next size up, IIRC 30 watts. that
would be about 50% greater than the max consumption.

On the Amazon Hero strings the 16' 3 LEDs per inch consume 48 watts per
16', not 24 as you mentioned above. And the included 60 watt power
supply fits the recommended rating.

If the LV strings were actually 16' instead of the odd length of 8' they
would consume about 28 watts.

After the smoke clears LV is approximately 4 times more expensive than
the Amazon HERO, if the strings were equal length and density.

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:10:27 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 2:48:22 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

Topical...

Yep.

I ordered one for above my sewing machine. My little elbow(?)-armed lamp isn't bright enough.

Last week, or so, discussion of T8 fixtures and bulbs. Yall jinxed me. Had a 4 yr old (4 bulb fixture) T8 ballast quit last week. Replaced it this morning.... *upholstery shop.

Sonny

Must be an epidemic. I had a T8 ballast in a 2 light fixture go on roughly the same day as that
thread started.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:efGdnbCb7JlKxLTKnZ2dnUU7-
:


You're making an invalid assumption, that the LEDs use as
much power as the supply is capable of. The Amazon part
actually uses 24W per 16.5 feet. The Lee Valley uses 12.8W
per 8 feet. They are essentially the same.

On the Amazon Hero strings the 16' 3 LEDs per inch consume 48 watts per
16', not 24 as you mentioned above. And the included 60 watt power
supply fits the recommended rating.

Yeah, I crossed lines on the chart and quoted the number for
the wrong LED strip. So at 48W they should be roughly twice
as much light as the LV part.

John

On 5/4/2016 7:58 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:efGdnbCb7JlKxLTKnZ2dnUU7-
:


You're making an invalid assumption, that the LEDs use as
much power as the supply is capable of. The Amazon part
actually uses 24W per 16.5 feet. The Lee Valley uses 12.8W
per 8 feet. They are essentially the same.

On the Amazon Hero strings the 16' 3 LEDs per inch consume 48 watts per
16', not 24 as you mentioned above. And the included 60 watt power
supply fits the recommended rating.

Yeah, I crossed lines on the chart and quoted the number for
the wrong LED strip. So at 48W they should be roughly twice
as much light as the LV part.

John


That's what I am hoping for.

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 3:05:49 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more lighting in my wife's sewing
studio. She has a 3'x5' cutting table and has wanted over head lighting
for that and she has a sewing machine, specifically a "long arm" sewing
machine that needs overhead lighting also. That requires a narrow but
11' long light set up.

Anyway I have been using the Armacost brand LED lighting from Lee
Valley. It has been in the ball park on pricing up until recently.

Lee Valley

8' roll of 18 LEDs per foot runs about $42.
Transformer min 15 watt about $23.
Remote control/dimmer about $36.
Connectors, wiring, about $5


Plus shipping.
And made in China.

Amazon Hero LED Kit

16.5' roll of 36 LEDs per foot
Transformer 60 watt
Remote Control/dimmer
Connectors, wiring

Shipped Free

Made in China

$49.99 Total


To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

To get the same length and density of lights from LV would cost $149
plus a $50 transformer.

I should have the Amazon Hero lights on Thursday.

Have you looked on eBay for other options?

I bought some 12v LED strips and a dimmer control to use with my pop-up
canopy while camping. My son bought some 12v strips for his boat.

The prices were very reasonable for what we bought. I'm not sure how the
prices for your set-up would compare with Amazon, but it might be worth
a look for future projects.

On 5/4/2016 10:40 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 3:05:49 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
This is a little OT but I have used this type lighting on a couple of
jobs and am getting ready to add more lighting in my wife's sewing
studio. She has a 3'x5' cutting table and has wanted over head lighting
for that and she has a sewing machine, specifically a "long arm" sewing
machine that needs overhead lighting also. That requires a narrow but
11' long light set up.

Anyway I have been using the Armacost brand LED lighting from Lee
Valley. It has been in the ball park on pricing up until recently.

Lee Valley

8' roll of 18 LEDs per foot runs about $42.
Transformer min 15 watt about $23.
Remote control/dimmer about $36.
Connectors, wiring, about $5


Plus shipping.
And made in China.

Amazon Hero LED Kit

16.5' roll of 36 LEDs per foot
Transformer 60 watt
Remote Control/dimmer
Connectors, wiring

Shipped Free

Made in China

$49.99 Total


To compare, The Hero has twice the length ribbon LED with double the
density of lights, 3 LEDs every 1 inch vs. 3 LEDs every 2 inches.

To get the same length and density of lights from LV would cost $149
plus a $50 transformer.

I should have the Amazon Hero lights on Thursday.

Have you looked on eBay for other options?

I bought some 12v LED strips and a dimmer control to use with my pop-up
canopy while camping. My son bought some 12v strips for his boat.

The prices were very reasonable for what we bought. I'm not sure how the
prices for your set-up would compare with Amazon, but it might be worth
a look for future projects.



So far I have only looked at LV and AMAZON with it's many providers.
I thought getting twice the lighting density and twice the length at
half the price was pretty good. It is not unusual to see a less dense
string, 18 LCDs per foot in 16' rolls for less than $10.
But then you add in the dimmer switch, power supply, leads, connectors
and it begins to add up a bit. I spent 1/4 as much as what LV would
have charged, apples to apples so to speak.

On 5/3/16 7:51 PM, Leon wrote:



All of this assuming that the wire to deliver the power to the LEDs is
heavy enough gauge to prevent voltage drop. I simply use regular lamp
cord, 16ga. IIRC, plenty heavy.






I use a _lot_ of these LED strips in lighting applications.

The higher density strips do produce more light (obviously) but you can
(and will) experience voltage drop issues due to the relatively fine
'wire' (copper PCB trace) in the strip itself. To get the best balance,
you will need to power both ends of the strip from the transformer,
center taps will also help. The efficiency is also not that great
(though for this application it really doesn't matter). The LEDs are
powered three in a series with a current limiting resistor, chained in
parallel. Each LED drops a bit over 3 volts, the resistor burns up the
excess from the 12volt supply as heat (the efficiency reducer). Another
issue is the wire gauge from the power supply to LED strip. 16 AWG is
marginal (the problem is much like using too-small speaker wire). I find
that laptop power supplies work best since they usually have heavier
gauge output cables, although many of the surplus Chinese supplies are
in fact repackaged recycled supplies and often only produce 1/2 or less
of their rated power.
The best approach is to minimize the wire length between the supply and
LED string, this usually involves running the 110V to the 'fixture', and
embedding the supply with the LEDs.

For mounting, I'm a big fan of the Lee Valley fixtures. They have three
styles, one for flush fitting in a dado, one for more of a surface type
mount, and one for corners. They also have several styles of diffusers,
from opaque where you can't really detect the individual LEDs, to more
or less clear.

They are available elsewhere now, but LV still has a competitive price.

-BR

On 5/7/2016 9:42 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 5/3/16 7:51 PM, Leon wrote:



All of this assuming that the wire to deliver the power to the LEDs is
heavy enough gauge to prevent voltage drop. I simply use regular lamp
cord, 16ga. IIRC, plenty heavy.






I use a _lot_ of these LED strips in lighting applications.

The higher density strips do produce more light (obviously) but you can
(and will) experience voltage drop issues due to the relatively fine
'wire' (copper PCB trace) in the strip itself. To get the best balance,
you will need to power both ends of the strip from the transformer,
center taps will also help. The efficiency is also not that great
(though for this application it really doesn't matter). The LEDs are
powered three in a series with a current limiting resistor, chained in
parallel. Each LED drops a bit over 3 volts, the resistor burns up the
excess from the 12volt supply as heat (the efficiency reducer). Another
issue is the wire gauge from the power supply to LED strip. 16 AWG is
marginal (the problem is much like using too-small speaker wire). I find
that laptop power supplies work best since they usually have heavier
gauge output cables, although many of the surplus Chinese supplies are
in fact repackaged recycled supplies and often only produce 1/2 or less
of their rated power.
The best approach is to minimize the wire length between the supply and
LED string, this usually involves running the 110V to the 'fixture', and
embedding the supply with the LEDs.

Actually I have used 16 gauge lamp cord for lighting my kitchen, The
cord to each string of LEDs is a minimum of 6' and every thing runs cool
24/7, full brightness, for the last 2 years.

My intention for the current project is to not use 16' as a single unit
with power to one end. More than likely the longest strip will be 10'
long at the most and powered from both ends.

The next project will be 2-6' LEDs and both probably powered from both ends.

On 5/8/16 8:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/7/2016 9:42 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 5/3/16 7:51 PM, Leon wrote:



All of this assuming that the wire to deliver the power to the LEDs is
heavy enough gauge to prevent voltage drop. I simply use regular lamp
cord, 16ga. IIRC, plenty heavy.






I use a _lot_ of these LED strips in lighting applications.

The higher density strips do produce more light (obviously) but you can
(and will) experience voltage drop issues due to the relatively fine
'wire' (copper PCB trace) in the strip itself. To get the best balance,
you will need to power both ends of the strip from the transformer,
center taps will also help. The efficiency is also not that great
(though for this application it really doesn't matter). The LEDs are
powered three in a series with a current limiting resistor, chained in
parallel. Each LED drops a bit over 3 volts, the resistor burns up the
excess from the 12volt supply as heat (the efficiency reducer). Another
issue is the wire gauge from the power supply to LED strip. 16 AWG is
marginal (the problem is much like using too-small speaker wire). I find
that laptop power supplies work best since they usually have heavier
gauge output cables, although many of the surplus Chinese supplies are
in fact repackaged recycled supplies and often only produce 1/2 or less
of their rated power.
The best approach is to minimize the wire length between the supply and
LED string, this usually involves running the 110V to the 'fixture', and
embedding the supply with the LEDs.

Actually I have used 16 gauge lamp cord for lighting my kitchen, The
cord to each string of LEDs is a minimum of 6' and every thing runs cool
24/7, full brightness, for the last 2 years.

The ribbons won't produce noticeable heat, it's spread out over 100's of
devices and a big area, no worries there. You may or may not notice
dimming at the end of the string, it depends on how well made the ribbon
strip (conductor gauge) is made.


My intention for the current project is to not use 16' as a single unit
with power to one end. More than likely the longest strip will be 10'
long at the most and powered from both ends.



That'll work well.

The next project will be 2-6' LEDs and both probably powered from both
ends.


Even better. Just following some normal installation guidelines make the
LED strips a wonderful new way to light up things in a much more
discrete way.


-BR

On 5/9/2016 8:12 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 5/8/16 8:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/7/2016 9:42 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 5/3/16 7:51 PM, Leon wrote:



All of this assuming that the wire to deliver the power to the LEDs is
heavy enough gauge to prevent voltage drop. I simply use regular lamp
cord, 16ga. IIRC, plenty heavy.






I use a _lot_ of these LED strips in lighting applications.

The higher density strips do produce more light (obviously) but you can
(and will) experience voltage drop issues due to the relatively fine
'wire' (copper PCB trace) in the strip itself. To get the best balance,
you will need to power both ends of the strip from the transformer,
center taps will also help. The efficiency is also not that great
(though for this application it really doesn't matter). The LEDs are
powered three in a series with a current limiting resistor, chained in
parallel. Each LED drops a bit over 3 volts, the resistor burns up the
excess from the 12volt supply as heat (the efficiency reducer). Another
issue is the wire gauge from the power supply to LED strip. 16 AWG is
marginal (the problem is much like using too-small speaker wire). I find
that laptop power supplies work best since they usually have heavier
gauge output cables, although many of the surplus Chinese supplies are
in fact repackaged recycled supplies and often only produce 1/2 or less
of their rated power.
The best approach is to minimize the wire length between the supply and
LED string, this usually involves running the 110V to the 'fixture', and
embedding the supply with the LEDs.

Actually I have used 16 gauge lamp cord for lighting my kitchen, The
cord to each string of LEDs is a minimum of 6' and every thing runs cool
24/7, full brightness, for the last 2 years.

The ribbons won't produce noticeable heat, it's spread out over 100's of
devices and a big area, no worries there. You may or may not notice
dimming at the end of the string, it depends on how well made the ribbon
strip (conductor gauge) is made.

Exactly and my point. FWIW I have never purchased 16.5' ribbon LEDs
before this purchase, only the 8' reels of ribbon LEDs and I did notice
that while still on the reel the inner lights appeared to be dimmer than
those on the outer perimeter. But again I am not intending to use the
whole string and will double the leads to both ends. I want to light up
a 15 SQFT area with LEDs about 30" above that surface. Testing the
output of the Amazon HERO LEDs that I mentioned earlier in another post
about 5' of that LED ribbon was adequate. I plan on using 2-4' strips
and 2-2' strips to illuminate the area. The kit included all connectors
necessary for this set up.




My intention for the current project is to not use 16' as a single unit
with power to one end. More than likely the longest strip will be 10'
long at the most and powered from both ends.



That'll work well.

Surely. ;~)




The next project will be 2-6' LEDs and both probably powered from both
ends.


Even better. Just following some normal installation guidelines make the
LED strips a wonderful new way to light up things in a much more
discrete way.

I got most of my information as to what gauge leads and size of power
supplies from Armacost a few years ago.