|
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Needed a file for a project.
A trip to Home Depot and there hanging in a blister pack on the wall was a package labeled "Nicholson", a name I have associated with files for as far back as I can remember. Grabbed a 10" (250 mm) flat ******* package and started scanning it. Seems the name "Nicholson" is now controlled by the Apex Tool Group, an investment group located in Sparks, MD with manufacturing facilities in Mexico. Looks like at least some of my money spent to buy a file, has created employment opportunities in Mexico. Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew |
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On 3/21/2015 6:22 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Needed a file for a project. A trip to Home Depot and there hanging in a blister pack on the wall was a package labeled "Nicholson", a name I have associated with files for as far back as I can remember. Grabbed a 10" (250 mm) flat ******* package and started scanning it. Seems the name "Nicholson" is now controlled by the Apex Tool Group, an investment group located in Sparks, MD with manufacturing facilities in Mexico. Looks like at least some of my money spent to buy a file, has created employment opportunities in Mexico. Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. |
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Lew Hodgett wrote: A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. --------------------------------------------- "Leon" wrote: You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. --------------------------------------------- Those vehicles supply the world market, not just the USA. Still remember when FoMoCo closed the Flat Rock, MI casting plant in the mid 1970's and moved it to Mexico. I was directly involved in supplying the electrical automation to the OEM who supplied the material handling systems along about '71-'72. IOW, Flat Rock was a brand new facility. They had just about worked the start-up bugs out. As far as the job situation in Mexico is concerned, every little bit helps. Lew |
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On 3/21/2015 8:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote: A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. --------------------------------------------- "Leon" wrote: You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. --------------------------------------------- Those vehicles supply the world market, not just the USA. Still remember when FoMoCo closed the Flat Rock, MI casting plant in the mid 1970's and moved it to Mexico. I was directly involved in supplying the electrical automation to the OEM who supplied the material handling systems along about '71-'72. IOW, Flat Rock was a brand new facility. They had just about worked the start-up bugs out. As far as the job situation in Mexico is concerned, every little bit helps. Lew Those that come here typically are not specialized in manufacturing so much as yard work and custodial. |
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On 3/21/2015 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/21/2015 6:22 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Needed a file for a project. A trip to Home Depot and there hanging in a blister pack on the wall was a package labeled "Nicholson", a name I have associated with files for as far back as I can remember. Grabbed a 10" (250 mm) flat ******* package and started scanning it. Seems the name "Nicholson" is now controlled by the Apex Tool Group, an investment group located in Sparks, MD with manufacturing facilities in Mexico. Looks like at least some of my money spent to buy a file, has created employment opportunities in Mexico. Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. There is a huge shipping warehouse just east of El Paso (Socorro, TX) where you can buy re-manufactured appliances of all sorts...made in Juarez, Mexico. |
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On 3/21/2015 10:45 PM, Max wrote:
Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. |
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On 3/21/2015 10:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/21/2015 10:45 PM, Max wrote: Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. California, where normal is upside down and backwards. |
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On 3/22/2015 11:05 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/21/2015 10:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:45 PM, Max wrote: Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. California, where normal is upside down and backwards. I agree, but I think a lot of things these days are that way. Everyone wants everyone to think the same way. People are losing jobs when they post something that someone else disagrees with. I think it all started in California and spread eastward... At least that's the way the wind blows...:-0 -- Jeff |
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On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 12:10:20 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/22/2015 11:05 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:45 PM, Max wrote: Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. California, where normal is upside down and backwards. I agree, but I think a lot of things these days are that way. Everyone wants everyone to think the same way. People are losing jobs when they post something that someone else disagrees with. I think it all started in California and spread eastward... At least that's the way the wind blows...:-0 -- Jeff "People are losing jobs when they post something that someone else disagrees with" That has been going on for as long as there have been people with authority over others. Replace the word "post" with write, scribe, chisel, sing, dance or any other form of communication and you'll find examples of people being fired (or worse) for their opinions since the beginning of humanity. |
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On 3/22/2015 12:10 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/22/2015 11:05 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:45 PM, Max wrote: Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. California, where normal is upside down and backwards. I agree, but I think a lot of things these days are that way. Everyone wants everyone to think the same way. People are losing jobs when they post something that someone else disagrees with. I think it all started in California and spread eastward... At least that's the way the wind blows...:-0 Much of it we bring on ourselves. We want to buy stuff cheaply and then complain because it came from Mexico or China. How do you sell a US mae appliance at a fair price when all your competitors have theirs made overseas at a much lower cost? |
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On 3/22/2015 11:59 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/22/2015 12:10 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 3/22/2015 11:05 AM, Leon wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 3/21/2015 10:45 PM, Max wrote: Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. California, where normal is upside down and backwards. I agree, but I think a lot of things these days are that way. Everyone wants everyone to think the same way. People are losing jobs when they post something that someone else disagrees with. I think it all started in California and spread eastward... At least that's the way the wind blows...:-0 Much of it we bring on ourselves. We want to buy stuff cheaply and then complain because it came from Mexico or China. How do you sell a US mae appliance at a fair price when all your competitors have theirs made overseas at a much lower cost? Stepping up to the podium with flame suit. Our problems are self generated by the type society that most all of us were born into. I think what we all really want is value for the amount of money we are spending. The problem is that we simply can't afford to live like we do, so we buy cheap. Fifty years ago it was common for the man to work and the woman to stay at home and raise the family. For the most part that worked just fine and I suspect that most every thing that was purchased was of good to fine quality. Then comes the television and "commercials". Now we are lead to believe that every one needs and will own the product being advertized. But a single salary will not allow that. So years later mom goes to work and the kids are raised by baby sitters, school programs, etc. Those programs cost money. So, the kids in general, learn their values from strangers also, and this is quite confusing. The kids loose focus on what is the right way and wrong way to earn things and come to learn that they deserve what they want when they want it. They go deeply into debt. Because they don't see this as a problem, everyone else is doing it, they believe this is the norm. Basically they are displaying their ignorance of what they can and cannot afford. Just because you can make the payments does not mean you can afford it. As a side note, I was shocked to learn what many consider to be the meaning of "debt free". It is common these days to think that having a mortgage and car payments is debt free, if you do not carry a balance on credit cards. Just under 35 years ago if you bought a home on a 30 year mortgage you basically paid for that house 4 times. And add to that, homes were in high demand and way over priced. But hey we could afford the payments although little else unless mom had a job too. Now the hard part, entitlement. We have all learned through our government that we are entitled to have everything that every one else has. So the person that can't keep a job, does not take care of his family, knows little to nothing about financing, and how crippling that can be, is promised hope by the government. The government rewards this behavior of paying his way with out a requirement to work or to pay back that debt, or limit this help. It will all be OK, we all will help pay for this behavior through taxes. Consider also those that are not dependent on the government, to get by, but feel entitled. Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. Want to talk the computer industry, housing industry, real estate industry? Are you listening California? No one thing is wrong or to blame aside from the fact that the majority of us expect to be paid way more than we each personally deserve from our contribution to society. And our expectations of entitlement. Because we can't see this we also can't see why we are where we are at. If we would only expect what we deserve, things would get better. Done. |
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On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote:
Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + full benefits and retirement for life. These people also want WalMart prices for all the things they buy. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? full benefits and retirement for life. These people also want WalMart prices for all the things they buy. |
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On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. |
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On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. Cheers, Bill |
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On 3/22/2015 4:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + full benefits and retirement for life. These people also want WalMart prices for all the things they buy. Yep. I have a friend, who was a state trooper. He retired, because he was eligible. He complains that they don't allow him to come back to work because of double dipping. His contention is that he is already traained why shouldn't he save the state money by coming back to work as a cop. I explain that in no other place can you retire and come back to work and get another pension. He doesn't understand why he can't. There is a lot of brain washing. And I can't talk about this with him, because his view is so twisted. -- Jeff |
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On 3/22/2015 3:36 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: snip That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? Good question but most all laborers deal with this every day. If your job requires physical activity it is likely going to have some risk. I think a roofer probably has one of the most dangerous job. |
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On 3/22/2015 3:36 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: snip That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? Good question but most all laborers deal with this every day. If your job requires physical activity it is likely going to have some risk. I think a roofer probably has one of the most dangerous job. |
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On 3/22/2015 3:53 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I'm not going to enter for arguments sake but these assembly line workers are not being forced to work there. If they don't have the aptitude for this kind of work, to keep from being injured, they should look elsewhere. Life is not fair. Just because you are hired to do a job it does not mean you have the skill set to do it safely. |
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On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. |
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Bill wrote:
I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. For what I paid to have my house re-shingled, the company could have afforded to pay his employees $200/day. But since maybe only 1 spoke English, I doubt they did that well. |
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On 3/22/2015 4:53 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. So where I grew up in Long Island NY the garbage men were making more than the teachers 30 years ago. I don't know now, as I haven't lived there since 78. While garbage men have a tough job, I personally think it's because they are totally unskilled labor. I don't think they deserved the pay they were getting. On the other hand, Foreign labor coming over here were putting me out of work for years. The way things have been setup, it's more beneficial to a company to hire foriegn workers. They get away with a lot. Having talked to recruiters and staffing firms last year, my eyes were opened to the F'up the congress created. My Indian counterpart is buying houses in the 5000 sq foot range, while I am 1800 sq ft. They buy the Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus. I have been told by a few Indian friends what they are making. So I am sure that it's not all lower price. -- Jeff |
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Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. I think the health care workers, at least those at the hospital level, are being treated pretty well financially. They have "tough" working conditions too (12-hour+ shifts, as the norm, in a tough environment). |
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On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. If a movie makes a billion dollars because I'm in it, then it's not unfair pay. It's the free market. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On 3/22/2015 4:22 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + full benefits and retirement for life. These people also want WalMart prices for all the things they buy. Yep. I have a friend, who was a state trooper. He retired, because he was eligible. He complains that they don't allow him to come back to work because of double dipping. His contention is that he is already traained why shouldn't he save the state money by coming back to work as a cop. I explain that in no other place can you retire and come back to work and get another pension. He doesn't understand why he can't. There is a lot of brain washing. And I can't talk about this with him, because his view is so twisted. I don't know why he can't retire and come back either. It is most likely NOT double dipping. Retirement payments are almost always paid out of an annuity. If the state would simply exempt returning retirees from getting a second pension the matter would be solved. The actual problem is that they want to rehire at beginning salary and not at the same salary they were paying when originally employee. This is just one reason my wife did not go back to work for the state after retiring. Plus at a certain point an experienced government worker is simply making too much money. They are replaced by cheap new hires and the government really does not care if they are efficient or not. |
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On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote: I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. For what I paid to have my house re-shingled, the company could have afforded to pay his employees $200/day. But since maybe only 1 spoke English, I doubt they did that well. You had the choice to hire them. If I hired a roofing company to roof my house, they would have to provide me with proof that all workers were here legally and they were getting paid market value and workers' comp. Oh, and I would want to inspect recent jobs to make sure they knew WTF there were doing. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On 3/22/2015 4:35 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. I think the health care workers, at least those at the hospital level, are being treated pretty well financially. They have "tough" working conditions too (12-hour+ shifts, as the norm, in a tough environment). Some are but there are many behind the scenes that you don't see and now that the government is involved the waste of money cut short what could be paid to workers. It is ridiculous that you have to hire staff to simply collect what the government owes. |
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On 3/22/15 4:35 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote: There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. I think the health care workers, at least those at the hospital level, are being treated pretty well financially. They have "tough" working conditions too (12-hour+ shifts, as the norm, in a tough environment). True. Plus they are well educated and well trained and have the lives of other people in their hands every day. Yet some auto workers with a GED make more than them. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On 3/22/2015 4:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Leon wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. If a movie makes a billion dollars because I'm in it, then it's not unfair pay. It's the free market. You think? Does your contribution to society for being in the movie make you worth a salary of $50,000,000? This is our society but on this path no one will be able to afford to go to the movies. I understand how we think this way and I understand why we are in the shape we are in. We put too much value in things that make us happy today but not for all of the tomorrows. |
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On 3/22/2015 4:30 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote: I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. For what I paid to have my house re-shingled, the company could have afforded to pay his employees $200/day. But since maybe only 1 spoke English, I doubt they did that well. So Bill did you factor in equipment expense, mandatory insurance, over head, taxes, advertising, fuel costs etc? |
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On 3/22/2015 4:32 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. So where I grew up in Long Island NY the garbage men were making more than the teachers 30 years ago. I don't know now, as I haven't lived there since 78. While garbage men have a tough job, I personally think it's because they are totally unskilled labor. I don't think they deserved the pay they were getting. It is shocking that the garbage men are not paid like athletes. They absolutely work as hard for their pay... Those guys have to be some of the most physically fit workers in the country as a whole. At least the ones that actually lift and empty the can by themselves. And run to the next house. I am amazed the pace our collectors keep up. About as fast as I walk, I walk an average of 4mph, and grab the garbage cans too. |
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On 3/22/15 4:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Leon wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. If a movie makes a billion dollars because I'm in it, then it's not unfair pay. It's the free market. You think? Does your contribution to society for being in the movie make you worth a salary of $50,000,000? This is our society but on this path no one will be able to afford to go to the movies. I understand how we think this way and I understand why we are in the shape we are in. We put too much value in things that make us happy today but not for all of the tomorrows. So now we have to "contribution to society" in order to be paid well? If that's the yardstick then very few people on earth should be paid well. If I build a mousetrap that 500 million want to buy, do I not deserve that money? -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On 3/22/15 4:54 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:32 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. So where I grew up in Long Island NY the garbage men were making more than the teachers 30 years ago. I don't know now, as I haven't lived there since 78. While garbage men have a tough job, I personally think it's because they are totally unskilled labor. I don't think they deserved the pay they were getting. It is shocking that the garbage men are not paid like athletes. They absolutely work as hard for their pay... Those guys have to be some of the most physically fit workers in the country as a whole. At least the ones that actually lift and empty the can by themselves. And run to the next house. I am amazed the pace our collectors keep up. About as fast as I walk, I walk an average of 4mph, and grab the garbage cans too. Yet, they could train orangutans to do that job in a month and they'd work for whatever they picked out of the cans to eat. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On 3/22/2015 4:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:35 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. I think the health care workers, at least those at the hospital level, are being treated pretty well financially. They have "tough" working conditions too (12-hour+ shifts, as the norm, in a tough environment). True. Plus they are well educated and well trained and have the lives of other people in their hands every day. Yet some auto workers with a GED make more than them. |
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On 3/22/2015 4:56 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:54 PM, Leon wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:32 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. So where I grew up in Long Island NY the garbage men were making more than the teachers 30 years ago. I don't know now, as I haven't lived there since 78. While garbage men have a tough job, I personally think it's because they are totally unskilled labor. I don't think they deserved the pay they were getting. It is shocking that the garbage men are not paid like athletes. They absolutely work as hard for their pay... Those guys have to be some of the most physically fit workers in the country as a whole. At least the ones that actually lift and empty the can by themselves. And run to the next house. I am amazed the pace our collectors keep up. About as fast as I walk, I walk an average of 4mph, and grab the garbage cans too. Yet, they could train orangutans to do that job in a month and they'd work for whatever they picked out of the cans to eat. I think some of them are orangutans. ;~) |
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-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Bill wrote: Bill wrote: I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. For what I paid to have my house re-shingled, the company could have afforded to pay his employees $200/day. But since maybe only 1 spoke English, I doubt they did that well. You had the choice to hire them. If I hired a roofing company to roof my house, they would have to provide me with proof that all workers were here legally and they were getting paid market value and workers' comp. Oh, and I would want to inspect recent jobs to make sure they knew WTF there were doing. I went with a referral. But it was amazing the cultural difference between the salesperson who came to speak with me, and the group who arrived to do the work. I think the workers were working on some sort of "first-come, first-served" basis, as there were at least a half-dozen car and trucks on my street by 7:00 am. And since the first day was "rained-out", the same thing happened the next day. |
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
Given that files are an item that will probably never be built again in the USA, Mexico is a pretty good choice as far as I'm concerned. A file manufacturing plant sure beats a drone monitored fence. Lew --------------------------------------------------- Leon wrote: You might be surprised how many vehicles are assembled in Mexico and that is not helping. ------------------------------------------------ Max wrote: Not to mention water heaters, refrigerators, water softeners, kitchen ranges, blenders, toasters, etc. --------------------------------------------------- "Ed Pawlowski" wrote: Yes, we lost a $1million customer when they moved from NJ to Mexico. Lew says that is good though. ----------------------------------------------------- Sorry to see your company lost a valued customer; however, doubt your labor costs were the only cause the loss. Unless you are in a business where the only value you bring to the table is low price, my guess is that somebody took their eye off the ball and truly forgot why this now ex-customer became your customer in the first place. Just a guess. And yes, if we are to loose a USA company to another country, then Mexico is the least painful since hopefully the move will help relieve the pressure on our entry level labor pool by creating jobs in Mexico. Lew |
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On 3/22/2015 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:47 PM, Leon wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Leon wrote: On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote: -MIKE- wrote: On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote: Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be paid a salary way beyond what he actually brings to the work force? Why do certain laborers, factory workers for instance, feel that they should earn what some doctors earn, of for that matter more than our educators? Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why China and Mexico workers have replaced American workers? Now that the US and other countries became majorly involved in world trade we now see how our labor force was way over paid for their production. Yes China and Mexico built-products are on occasion not of the same quality than what we can build here but that will change. Even though their products are often inferior they absolutely offer a better value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago we imported way less quality products from Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if it is made in Japan I choose that product rather than, over priced and lesser quality American made. Just look at the American automobile industry. Plain and simple the American automobile industry is in the shape it is in because of workers with entitlement issues and the unions that supposedly represented them. That has been my contention for the longest time. The unions, which were needed at one time and did an incredible service to the labor force, have now brainwashed people with high school educations and little to no skilled training that they are worth $50k + Do you think standing on an assembly line with big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday? WTF does fun have to do with anything!? My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees, went through internships, training and continuing education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10 years experience before she started making that kind of money. I've never heard her once describe her job as "fun." Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask her about her working conditions or her risk of being injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as over-payed as you think they are. I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in place on every assembly line in this country. If there some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working environment? How about all the roofers around here who don't have safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus benefits and retirement just because they have a dangerous job? I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a problem with what professional athletes get. Income-inequity is a problem. Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries will come into line... I was just reading about a new organization concerned with the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all of the answers. There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays it's entertainers more than its health care workers and educators. If a movie makes a billion dollars because I'm in it, then it's not unfair pay. It's the free market. You think? Does your contribution to society for being in the movie make you worth a salary of $50,000,000? This is our society but on this path no one will be able to afford to go to the movies. I understand how we think this way and I understand why we are in the shape we are in. We put too much value in things that make us happy today but not for all of the tomorrows. So now we have to "contribution to society" in order to be paid well? Noooooooo! The more our products or services contribute to society the more deserving we are of the high pay. If you work to do something that greatly benefits society as you would work playing a game. Which would you pick as the job that deserves the better pay. I don't really determine a persons worth by how much money he makes. I just believe that if you are providing a product or service that benefits one or many people, what you charge is of more value than a person that simply entertains. Value for money spent is more important. Is entertainment important, absolutely but IMHO not a necessity. If that's the yardstick then very few people on earth should be paid well. If I build a mousetrap that 500 million want to buy, do I not deserve that money? Here is how I am looking at it. You work 3 years to build mouse traps that nets you a profit of 25 million. Your product helps countless people with an actual need to rid their home of vermin. You act in a movie that takes 3 years to film. You net a profit of 10 million. The movie you act is a box office hit for 6 weeks. You put in the exact amount of time and work for both the mouse traps and the entertainment. BUT you earn 10 million more making the traps. Which of the two jobs would you say benefited society the most therefore being the most deserved? Now I am not saying that you don't deserve what you get with either pick, using our society's way of thinking and beliefs. A year from now while the traps are still in use and the movie is all but forgotten which would job would make you feel the best about what you have done? "IMHO" if you sell your customers a product that benefits them for more than a few hours, dollar for dollar, you are more deserving of what you earn. And again I don't condemn any one for making as much money as they can by doing what they want to do. This is how we have been conditioned to think in our society. You get all you can get while the getting is good, you are entitled. And "IMHO" that is the problem. |
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