One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa tables.
Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using black granite tile
for the top supported by ply. The tile will be surrounded by a 3/4"
mahogany frame approximately 3" wide. The aprons will also be 3/4" x 3"+-
mahogany. I want something resembling a parson's table. Now the
problem:...

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be mitered. I
could use a 3/4 x 3/4 glue block on the inside of one or the other to keep
them aligned while gluing but I'm thinking that getting that perfectly
aligned to the mahogany could be problematic. Especially given the
length.

My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter lock
router bit on a router table. I have never used one but it seems to me
that it too could be problematic unless both apron and frame are perfectly
straight and flat over the entire length. Another potential problem is
the relative delicacy of the mitered edge...it would have to be used to
guide on either the table of fence, depending upon which board was being
routed. (I would NOT want to accomplish the miter itself with the router,
just the interlocking part of the profile...the miter would have been done
on a saw).

I've never had occasion to use one of these bits and would welcome input
about their use. Ditto on alternative methods of joining frame to apron.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 1/31/2015 12:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa tables.
Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using black granite
tile for the top supported by ply. The tile will be surrounded by a
3/4" mahogany frame approximately 3" wide. The aprons will also be 3/4"
x 3"+- mahogany. I want something resembling a parson's table. Now the
problem:...

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be mitered. I
could use a 3/4 x 3/4 glue block on the inside of one or the other to
keep them aligned while gluing but I'm thinking that getting that
perfectly aligned to the mahogany could be problematic. Especially
given the length.

My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter lock
router bit on a router table. I have never used one but it seems to me
that it too could be problematic unless both apron and frame are
perfectly straight and flat over the entire length. Another potential
problem is the relative delicacy of the mitered edge...it would have to
be used to guide on either the table of fence, depending upon which
board was being routed. (I would NOT want to accomplish the miter itself
with the router, just the interlocking part of the profile...the miter
would have been done on a saw).

I've never had occasion to use one of these bits and would welcome input
about their use. Ditto on alternative methods of joining frame to apron.

If I am reading you correctly you want the apron to be at the immediate
edge of the top and the joint that joints the apron and top will mitered
joint, probably a 45 degree joint.

Done perfectly it that joint looks great. If not perfectly the joint
may not be close properly. Or the sharp edges of the joint at the
corner would be easily dinged before, during and or after assembly.

IF your apron was backed off from the point/edge of the top miter point
edge and attached say 1/8" shy of reaching the edge of the top you could
plain or sand the top Point/Edge back to the face of the apron and
essentially move the miter joint down from the top edge/corner of the top.

I could show you an illustration better than I can explain it. ;~)
Zoom in on the joint.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/16225043970/

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message

On 1/31/2015 12:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa tables.
Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using black granite
tile for the top supported by ply. The tile will be surrounded by a
3/4" mahogany frame approximately 3" wide. The aprons will also be
3/4"
x 3"+- mahogany. I want something resembling a parson's table. Now
the
problem:...

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be mitered.
I
could use a 3/4 x 3/4 glue block on the inside of one or the other to
keep them aligned while gluing but I'm thinking that getting that
perfectly aligned to the mahogany could be problematic. Especially
given the length.

My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter lock
router bit on a router table. I have never used one but it seems to
me
that it too could be problematic unless both apron and frame are
perfectly straight and flat over the entire length. Another potential
problem is the relative delicacy of the mitered edge...it would have
to
be used to guide on either the table of fence, depending upon which
board was being routed. (I would NOT want to accomplish the miter
itself
with the router, just the interlocking part of the profile...the miter
would have been done on a saw).

I've never had occasion to use one of these bits and would welcome
input
about their use. Ditto on alternative methods of joining frame to
apron.
If I am reading you correctly you want the apron to be at the immediate
edge of the top and the joint that joints the apron and top will mitered
joint, probably a 45 degree joint.

Done perfectly it that joint looks great.

I think so too

If not perfectly the joint
may not be close properly. Or the sharp edges of the joint at the
corner would be easily dinged before, during and or after assembly.

Yeah, that was/is my concern. Not so much after - or even during -
assembly but before...using that sharp, delicate edge to guide on the
surface of the router table surface or fence while cutting the locking
profile.

IF your apron was backed off from the point/edge of the top miter point
edge and attached say 1/8" shy of reaching the edge of the top you could
plain or sand the top Point/Edge back to the face of the apron and
essentially move the miter joint down from the top edge/corner of the
top.

Yeah, I've considered that, might wind up doing it. Sure would like a
non-fudged miter joint though.

I could show you an illustration better than I can explain it. ;~)
Zoom in on the joint.

Shucks, Leon, I don' need no steenkin pitcher, your words are golden

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 1/31/15 12:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa tables.
Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using black granite
tile for the top supported by ply. The tile will be surrounded by a
3/4" mahogany frame approximately 3" wide. The aprons will also be
3/4" x 3"+- mahogany. I want something resembling a parson's table.
Now the problem:...

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be mitered.
I could use a 3/4 x 3/4 glue block on the inside of one or the other
to keep them aligned while gluing but I'm thinking that getting that
perfectly aligned to the mahogany could be problematic. Especially
given the length.

My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter lock
router bit on a router table. I have never used one but it seems to
me that it too could be problematic unless both apron and frame are
perfectly straight and flat over the entire length. Another
potential problem is the relative delicacy of the mitered edge...it
would have to be used to guide on either the table of fence,
depending upon which board was being routed. (I would NOT want to
accomplish the miter itself with the router, just the interlocking
part of the profile...the miter would have been done on a saw).

I've never had occasion to use one of these bits and would welcome
input about their use. Ditto on alternative methods of joining frame
to apron.


I bought one of those bits and stopped using it for a few reasons.
1. Everything has the be absolutely perfect for them to join correctly
and they are a bit of a PITA to join and clamp. The gets exacerbated by
length.
2. I determined they are pretty much a novelty and a solution to a
problem that doesn't exist, because...
3. The are better joints and better joinery.

I'm having trouble picturing the joint your are trying to accomplish,
due to ignorance and beer. :-) But perhaps a decorative spline might
suit your needs.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message

On 1/31/15 12:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa tables.
Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using black granite
tile for the top supported by ply. The tile will be surrounded by a
3/4" mahogany frame approximately 3" wide. The aprons will also be
3/4" x 3"+- mahogany. I want something resembling a parson's table.
Now the problem:...

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be mitered.
I could use a 3/4 x 3/4 glue block on the inside of one or the other
to keep them aligned while gluing but I'm thinking that getting that
perfectly aligned to the mahogany could be problematic. Especially
given the length.

My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter lock
router bit on a router table. I have never used one but it seems to
me that it too could be problematic unless both apron and frame are
perfectly straight and flat over the entire length. Another
potential problem is the relative delicacy of the mitered edge...it
would have to be used to guide on either the table of fence,
depending upon which board was being routed. (I would NOT want to
accomplish the miter itself with the router, just the interlocking
part of the profile...the miter would have been done on a saw).

I've never had occasion to use one of these bits and would welcome
input about their use. Ditto on alternative methods of joining frame
to apron.


I bought one of those bits and stopped using it for a few reasons.
1. Everything has the be absolutely perfect for them to join correctly
and they are a bit of a PITA to join and clamp. The gets exacerbated by
length.
2. I determined they are pretty much a novelty and a solution to a
problem that doesn't exist, because...
3. The are better joints and better joinery.

I'm having trouble picturing the joint your are trying to accomplish,
due to ignorance and beer. :-) But perhaps a decorative spline might
suit your needs.

Easy to picture...

1. 2 boards, each 3/4 x 3 x 108
2. miter one long edge of each
3. join the mitered edges so the boards are at 90 degrees to each other

Beer worn off yet?

A spline could work; basically, that is what a lock miter bit makes.
Biscuits could work too. The problem with all of them is getting
everything to line up perfectly over a considerable distance, Hmm...naybe
I should consider veneer


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 2/1/2015 5:14 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Easy to picture...

1. 2 boards, each 3/4 x 3 x 108
2. miter one long edge of each
3. join the mitered edges so the boards are at 90 degrees to each other

Same idea, but only 22 1/2 degrees instead of 90:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...2 48765728530

I used biscuits with no problem over 70".

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message

On 2/1/2015 5:14 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Easy to picture...

1. 2 boards, each 3/4 x 3 x 108
2. miter one long edge of each
3. join the mitered edges so the boards are at 90 degrees to each
other

Same idea, but only 22 1/2 degrees instead of 90:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...2 48765728530

I used biscuits with no problem over 70".

That's encouraging. Thanks! How wide is the wide piece?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 2/1/2015 9:44 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message

On 2/1/2015 5:14 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Easy to picture...

1. 2 boards, each 3/4 x 3 x 108
2. miter one long edge of each
3. join the mitered edges so the boards are at 90 degrees to each
other

Same idea, but only 22 1/2 degrees instead of 90:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...2 48765728530


I used biscuits with no problem over 70".

That's encouraging. Thanks! How wide is the wide piece?

You mean the angled face frame "stile" that joined at 22 1/2?

- door side is 2" wide; side is 6" wide.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/1/15 5:14 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

On 1/31/15 12:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa
tables. Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using
black granite tile for the top supported by ply. The tile will
be surrounded by a 3/4" mahogany frame approximately 3" wide.
The aprons will also be 3/4" x 3"+- mahogany. I want something
resembling a parson's table. Now the problem:...

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be
mitered. I could use a 3/4 x 3/4 glue block on the inside of one
or the other to keep them aligned while gluing but I'm thinking
that getting that perfectly aligned to the mahogany could be
problematic. Especially given the length.

My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter
lock router bit on a router table. I have never used one but it
seems to me that it too could be problematic unless both apron
and frame are perfectly straight and flat over the entire length.
Another potential problem is the relative delicacy of the mitered
edge...it would have to be used to guide on either the table of
fence, depending upon which board was being routed. (I would NOT
want to accomplish the miter itself with the router, just the
interlocking part of the profile...the miter would have been done
on a saw).

I've never had occasion to use one of these bits and would
welcome input about their use. Ditto on alternative methods of
joining frame to apron.


I bought one of those bits and stopped using it for a few reasons.
1. Everything has the be absolutely perfect for them to join
correctly and they are a bit of a PITA to join and clamp. The gets
exacerbated by length. 2. I determined they are pretty much a
novelty and a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, because...
3. The are better joints and better joinery.

I'm having trouble picturing the joint your are trying to
accomplish, due to ignorance and beer. :-) But perhaps a
decorative spline might suit your needs.

Easy to picture...

1. 2 boards, each 3/4 x 3 x 108 2. miter one long edge of each 3.
join the mitered edges so the boards are at 90 degrees to each other


All the more reason to NOT use those bits. I was making a long joint
and it was a major PITA squeezing that joint together the whole length.
That locking miter joint would work for short lengths of stock or end
grain joints, which would really benefit from that joint. There is
absolutely no room for error with that joint and it's very difficult to
get the glue to squeeze out, as well, meaning all the more difficult to
get a tight fit.

Beer worn off yet?


Yes, and the coffee has kicked in. :-D


A spline could work; basically, that is what a lock miter bit makes.
Biscuits could work too. The problem with all of them is getting
everything to line up perfectly over a considerable distance,
Hmm...naybe I should consider veneer


If I were doing it from scratch, I might go total old-school, low tech
(are nail guns low tech?) and just edge glue the entire thing, and work
my way along with a brad nailer to keep it lined up for clamping. If
you don't want to see the nails, perhaps a pin nailer would work. You
might get lucky and get a tight joint without clamping if you go easy on
the glue.

If you were to go the spline rout, consider gluing the spline into one
side, first, letting it dry, then gluing the other piece to it. I can
see how the spline would eliminate the need for 90 degree clamping jigs.
The nails/pins *should* accomplish the same thing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message


If you were to go the spline rout, consider gluing the spline into one
side, first, letting it dry, then gluing the other piece to it. I can
see how the spline would eliminate the need for 90 degree clamping jigs.
The nails/pins *should* accomplish the same thing.

Yeah, that is what I would do, don't want nail holes - even teensy brad
holes - in my mahogany

At the moment, I am leaning toward biscuits (good excuse to buy a plate
joiner) and have pretty much trashed the miter lock bit idea. Thanks for
your input.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 2/1/15 12:27 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message


If you were to go the spline rout, consider gluing the spline into one
side, first, letting it dry, then gluing the other piece to it. I can
see how the spline would eliminate the need for 90 degree clamping jigs.
The nails/pins *should* accomplish the same thing.

Yeah, that is what I would do, don't want nail holes - even teensy brad
holes - in my mahogany

At the moment, I am leaning toward biscuits (good excuse to buy a plate
joiner) and have pretty much trashed the miter lock bit idea. Thanks
for your input.


Yeah, Karl's joint looked great!
I would ask him how he clamped it. That's the real tricky part.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 13:27:33 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message


If you were to go the spline rout, consider gluing the spline into one
side, first, letting it dry, then gluing the other piece to it. I can
see how the spline would eliminate the need for 90 degree clamping jigs.
The nails/pins *should* accomplish the same thing.

Yeah, that is what I would do, don't want nail holes - even teensy brad
holes - in my mahogany

At the moment, I am leaning toward biscuits (good excuse to buy a plate
joiner) and have pretty much trashed the miter lock bit idea. Thanks for
your input.

You are using a plywood base, might pockets hole be an answer? Would
also make for dry fitting your side pieces marking the corner joints
and fitting them possible. You can also remove them after the glue
dries.

Mark

On Saturday, January 31, 2015 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-8, dadiOH wrote:
One of my (not immediate) future projects is a couple of sofa tables.
Each will be about 9' long, 16" wide. I plan on using black granite tile
... surrounded by a 3/4"
mahogany frame approximately 3" wide.

I would like for the meeting edges of apron and frame to be mitered....
My next thought was to run the already mitered edges on a miter lock
router bit

Sounds much too fiddly. Why not assemble the frame and plywood, bevel the
edges of both it and the glued-together apron, and glue the whole circumference
in one gluing operation. Cut the top frame oversize by a few millimeters.
Lay the top on a flat surface, upside down, apply glue. Just drop the frame
onto it. No clamping, just gravity. After the glue is dry,
clean up any and all top overhang with a router and pattern bit, or plane.

I'd leave the tile attachment to the last, maybe after finishing the wood.