This couple, high school sweet hearts, with 10 kids should be put in
charge of our education system. Dump the system and start over with
what ever methods they are using.

Spoiler alert, 7 of their 10 kids were in college by age 12.

https://shine.yahoo.com/experts/how-...175102493.html

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

This couple, high school sweet hearts, with 10 kids should be put in
charge of our education system. Dump the system and start over with
what ever methods they are using.

Spoiler alert, 7 of their 10 kids were in college by age 12.

https://shine.yahoo.com/experts/how-...college-by-age
-12-175102493.html

Sounds like self-education is a big part of their success. Plus, they
picked up on interests and encouraged them. That makes education easy.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:37:17 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

This couple, high school sweet hearts, with 10 kids should be put in
charge of our education system. Dump the system and start over with
what ever methods they are using.

Spoiler alert, 7 of their 10 kids were in college by age 12.

https://shine.yahoo.com/experts/how-...175102493.html

Oh, no. How dare they keep their children out of the public school
system? If their methods begin to spread and grow it could mean the
beginning of the collapse of the teacher's union, the unemployment of
the school board members that squander inflated school budgets every
year and the realization that many at the Department of Education are
no longer needed. Maybe even the realization that the Department of
Education itself isn't needed.

Remember, it's for the children.

On 6/4/2014 2:43 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

This couple, high school sweet hearts, with 10 kids should be put in
charge of our education system. Dump the system and start over with
what ever methods they are using.

Spoiler alert, 7 of their 10 kids were in college by age 12.

https://shine.yahoo.com/experts/how-...college-by-age
-12-175102493.html

Sounds like self-education is a big part of their success. Plus, they
picked up on interests and encouraged them. That makes education easy.

Puckdropper



I think the key issue is that the parents are doing what a majority of
parents are not doing, taking an active role in their children's
education way beyond simply sitting back and complaining.

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:37:17 -0500, Leon wrote:

This couple, high school sweet hearts, with 10 kids should be put in
charge of our education system.

I certainly wouldn't put them in charge of Zero Population Growth :-).

And to quote them: "We believe in a Christian worldview and creation. We
believe that there is scientific evidence that supports intelligent
design."

So I doubt any of those kids are going into evolutionary genetics :-).

Yes, the public schools leave a lot to be desired. But every time I see
"home schooled" I think of the Kansas school board and their elimination
of evolution from the curriculum.

How "educated" is someone who lets their beliefs override scientific
theories backed up by evidence?

Now where did I put that flameproof suit ???

On 6/4/2014 6:05 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:37:17 -0500, Leon wrote:

This couple, high school sweet hearts, with 10 kids should be put in
charge of our education system.

I certainly wouldn't put them in charge of Zero Population Growth :-).

Well you have a point but who is to say what the ideal number would be
and would you want someone telling you how many children to have.



And to quote them: "We believe in a Christian worldview and creation. We
believe that there is scientific evidence that supports intelligent
design."

So I doubt any of those kids are going into evolutionary genetics :-).

Is that a field, with concern to humans?


Yes, the public schools leave a lot to be desired. But every time I see
"home schooled" I think of the Kansas school board and their elimination
of evolution from the curriculum.

I am not a fan of the home schooled idea but it beats the heck out of
what we have now. As far as the elimination of evolution from the
curriculum, perhaps they don't see the need for it, like sports,
religion, arts, common sense.


How "educated" is someone who lets their beliefs override scientific
theories backed up by evidence?

Like the people that believe that global warming is controllable?


Now where did I put that flameproof suit ???

Over there ---- ;~)

On 6/4/2014 6:41 PM, Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.


Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6 figures.

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 21:33:18 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6/4/2014 6:41 PM, Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.


Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6 figures.

With defined benefit retirements approaching 100% of *high* salary, in
many cases.

On 6/4/2014 9:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/4/2014 6:41 PM, Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.


Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6 figures.

They don't make 6 figures here in NJ.

The admins make very high numbers, into 6 figures.
The superintendents make ridiculous numbers.

But most teachers are in medium income here.



--
Jeff

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 22:03:46 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 6/4/2014 9:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/4/2014 6:41 PM, Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.


Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6 figures.

They don't make 6 figures here in NJ.

The admins make very high numbers, into 6 figures.
The superintendents make ridiculous numbers.

But most teachers are in medium income here.

Most don't have 30 years experience, sure. However, six-figure
teacher's salaries do exist.

Atlantic City High School name deleted 27 years $103,816 Math
Non-Elementary teaches 5 classes

That was just a random sample.

http://php.app.com/edstaff/search.php

Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby
sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.
---------------------------------------------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6
figures.
---------------------------------------------------------
Might want to check your data.

Top management often get $200K-$500K; however vested class
room teachers are usually well below the $100K level.

Even had a super in SoCal who had a 7 digit contract which
generated some interesting dialog when it surfaced.


Lew



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And to quote them: "We believe in a Christian worldview and
creation. We
believe that there is scientific evidence that supports intelligent
design."

So I doubt any of those kids are going into evolutionary genetics
---------------------------------------------------
"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

Yes, the public schools leave a lot to be desired. But every time I
see
"home schooled" I think of the Kansas school board and their
elimination
of evolution from the curriculum.

How "educated" is someone who lets their beliefs override scientific
theories backed up by evidence?

Now where did I put that flameproof suit ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------
And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.

Lew



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http://www.avast.com

Make that "tenured", not vested.

Lew
------------------------------------------
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...

Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby
sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.
---------------------------------------------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6
figures.
---------------------------------------------------------
Might want to check your data.

Top management often get $200K-$500K; however vested class
room teachers are usually well below the $100K level.

Even had a super in SoCal who had a 7 digit contract which
generated some interesting dialog when it surfaced.


Lew



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com




---
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http://www.avast.com

On 6/4/2014 10:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.

Cite?

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On 6/4/2014 10:07 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Leon wrote:

And helping develop the kids interests instead of being a baby
sitter
and throttling back to the lowest common denominator.

We are getting out of our teachers what we are paying them.
---------------------------------------------------------
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Huh? Teachers in my area get a pretty decent check. Some into 6
figures.
---------------------------------------------------------
Might want to check your data.

Top management often get $200K-$500K; however vested class
room teachers are usually well below the $100K level.

Even had a super in SoCal who had a 7 digit contract which
generated some interesting dialog when it surfaced.

Any law on the subject, at any level of government, should end with
following provision:

"Anything contained herein to contrary notwithstanding, no elected or
appointed official, in any legislature, administrative, management
and/or regulatory branch, shall receive more in the sum of all salary,
payments and/or benefits, than the lowest paid Public School, classroom
teacher."

Or words to that effect ...

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 6/5/2014 8:01 AM, Swingman wrote:

"Anything contained herein to contrary notwithstanding, no elected or
appointed official, in any legislature, administrative, management
and/or regulatory branch, shall receive more in the sum of all salary,
payments and/or benefits, than the lowest paid Public School, classroom
teacher."

Or words to that effect ...


I assume you are including sports coaches in that group. Should apply
to college professors too. The newspaper had a listing of UCONN
salaries and some consultant saying they should get an additional 15% to
remain competitive with other schools. Some administrators were well
above 200k.

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 06:49:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/4/2014 10:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.

Cite?

My wife worked for Scott Foresman, and Texas's requirements for text
books drove the industry nuts.

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:36:27 -0500, Leon wrote:

Well you have a point but who is to say what the ideal number would be
and would you want someone telling you how many children to have.

The ideal number is replacement level.

And while my having children is several decades in the past, I see no
reason why one has to be licensed to drive a car, carry a gun, etc., but
not to have children.

And I did practice what I preach - 2 wives and 3 children - that's one
for one :-).

On 6/5/2014 11:20 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:36:27 -0500, Leon wrote:

Well you have a point but who is to say what the ideal number would be
and would you want someone telling you how many children to have.

The ideal number is replacement level.

And while my having children is several decades in the past, I see no
reason why one has to be licensed to drive a car, carry a gun, etc., but
not to have children.

And I did practice what I preach - 2 wives and 3 children - that's one
for one :-).



Hummmmm. Replacement level at what particular point? today, 10 years
ago, 20 years ago, 100 years ago, maybe we have not reached the ideal
population number yet. And once we reach that level will we rely on the
government to enforce that number? Will we toss the new born or dispose
of one of the parents?

On 6/5/2014 8:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 06:49:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/4/2014 10:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.

Cite?

My wife worked for Scott Foresman, and Texas's requirements for text
books drove the industry nuts.

Yep, long time Texan's, who didn't just move here in the last 20 years,
are independent and don't put up with a whole lot of bull****.

For instance, when the textbook sellers tried to sneak in a book with
the phrase:

“The people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia.”

.... presented as a summation (totally erroneous) of the 2nd Amendment in
a proposed text book last year, they do tend to get their Levi's in bunch.

Let's address the question ... a cite where Texas' State Board of
Education was engaging in a "rewrite of early US history"?

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On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 14:17:10 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/5/2014 8:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 06:49:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/4/2014 10:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.

Cite?

My wife worked for Scott Foresman, and Texas's requirements for text
books drove the industry nuts.

Yep, long time Texan's, who didn't just move here in the last 20 years,
are independent and don't put up with a whole lot of bull****.

For instance, when the textbook sellers tried to sneak in a book with
the phrase:

“The people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia.”

... presented as a summation (totally erroneous) of the 2nd Amendment in
a proposed text book last year, they do tend to get their Levi's in bunch.

Let's address the question ... a cite where Texas' State Board of
Education was engaging in a "rewrite of early US history"?

The requirements of the Texas State Board of education dominated text
book publishing, so in some view the demanded rewrite US history. Now
to be fair the California requirements were just as much of a PIA. The
volume of text books, made those two states "needs" paramount.

On 6/5/2014 12:20 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:


And I did practice what I preach - 2 wives and 3 children - that's one
for one :-).


All at the same time?

On 6/5/2014 4:31 PM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 14:17:10 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/5/2014 8:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 06:49:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/4/2014 10:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.

Cite?

My wife worked for Scott Foresman, and Texas's requirements for text
books drove the industry nuts.

Yep, long time Texan's, who didn't just move here in the last 20 years,
are independent and don't put up with a whole lot of bull****.

For instance, when the textbook sellers tried to sneak in a book with
the phrase:

“The people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia.”

... presented as a summation (totally erroneous) of the 2nd Amendment in
a proposed text book last year, they do tend to get their Levi's in bunch.

Let's address the question ... a cite where Texas' State Board of
Education was engaging in a "rewrite of early US history"?

The requirements of the Texas State Board of education dominated text
book publishing, so in some view the demanded rewrite US history. Now
to be fair the California requirements were just as much of a PIA. The
volume of text books, made those two states "needs" paramount.



So when you say that they dominated the text book publishing, and it
could viewed that it was demanded ma rewrite of US history, it could be
viewed that they demanded that the textbooks actually be rewritten using
actual facts.

In the past 20~30 years it there have been countless media coverages
showing absurdly incorrect information in some text books being used.

So I can see how they would want to be quite strict about what is being
taught.

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 17:20:17 -0500, Leon wrote:

In the past 20~30 years it there have been countless media coverages
showing absurdly incorrect information in some text books being used.

Yes, but do we want those little minds exposed to the real lives of our
founding fathers?

Just as an example, Washington offered to run the army for no salary,
just expenses. Then he padded his expense account to the extent that
when he made the same offer for the presidency, congress said thanks, but
no thanks, we'll pay you a salary!

And that painting of him praying in the snow? Leaving aside George's
ability to deflect any queries about his beliefs, the aforementioned
expense account for the winter in Valley Forge makes it clear that
although the troops might be in a pickle, old George was living high on
the hog.

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 17:58:41 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


And I did practice what I preach - 2 wives and 3 children - that's one
for one :-).


All at the same time?

You've got to be kidding - I have nothing but sympathy for any man with
multiple wives :-). Might have been bearable back when wives were
property, or in some Islamic countries today, but not in the good old USA.

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 12:06:05 -0500, Leon wrote:

Hummmmm. Replacement level at what particular point? today, 10 years
ago,
20 years ago, 100 years ago, maybe we have not reached the ideal
population number yet.

Just keep whistling past the graveyard, Leon. After all you and I will
be dead when it comes time to pay the piper :-).

And once we reach that level will we rely on the
government to enforce that number? Will we toss the new born or dispose
of one of the parents?

How many years ago was it that most people smoked? A combination of
changing public opinion and increasing taxes made quite a difference.

And I see nothing wrong with limiting the number of children and then
requiring that any man who'd reached the limit have a vasectomy. And
with DNA testing there'd be no doubt who the father was.

And before you ask, yes I did.

On 6/5/2014 5:54 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 17:58:41 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


And I did practice what I preach - 2 wives and 3 children - that's one
for one :-).


All at the same time?

You've got to be kidding - I have nothing but sympathy for any man with
multiple wives :-). Might have been bearable back when wives were
property, or in some Islamic countries today, but not in the good old USA.

But there are thousands, non-Moslems, in the good old USA who do.
Besides having sympathy, do you have a real problem with people who
choose to practice polygamy?
Q: What is the penalty for polygamy?
A: Two mothers-in-law.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.
----------------------------------------------------

"Swingman" wrote:

Cite?
--------------------------------
Knock yourself out.

http://tinyurl.com/nfezkea


Lew



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http://www.avast.com

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 08:49:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 6/5/2014 8:01 AM, Swingman wrote:

"Anything contained herein to contrary notwithstanding, no elected or
appointed official, in any legislature, administrative, management
and/or regulatory branch, shall receive more in the sum of all salary,
payments and/or benefits, than the lowest paid Public School, classroom
teacher."

Or words to that effect ...


I assume you are including sports coaches in that group. Should apply
to college professors too. The newspaper had a listing of UCONN
salaries and some consultant saying they should get an additional 15% to
remain competitive with other schools. Some administrators were well
above 200k.

There are several (~10, IIRC) university presidents $1M/yr, and many
more coaches. Sports is a money maker for many schools, though. I
guess presidents are too. Their job is to lobby legislatures and alma
mater for more cash.

On 6/5/2014 6:51 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 17:20:17 -0500, Leon wrote:

In the past 20~30 years it there have been countless media coverages
showing absurdly incorrect information in some text books being used.

Yes, but do we want those little minds exposed to the real lives of our
founding fathers?


If it is the truth, yes.




Just as an example, Washington offered to run the army for no salary,
just expenses. Then he padded his expense account to the extent that
when he made the same offer for the presidency, congress said thanks, but
no thanks, we'll pay you a salary!


Just as an example, some of the Textbooks in question mentioned the
Alamo being in Dallas, or was that Houston. This is why the
requirements appear to be more stringent.


And that painting of him praying in the snow? Leaving aside George's
ability to deflect any queries about his beliefs, the aforementioned
expense account for the winter in Valley Forge makes it clear that
although the troops might be in a pickle, old George was living high on
the hog.


And if that is the truth it should be known.

On 6/5/2014 7:01 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 12:06:05 -0500, Leon wrote:

Hummmmm. Replacement level at what particular point? today, 10 years
ago,
20 years ago, 100 years ago, maybe we have not reached the ideal
population number yet.

Just keep whistling past the graveyard, Leon. After all you and I will
be dead when it comes time to pay the piper :-).

And once we reach that level will we rely on the
government to enforce that number? Will we toss the new born or dispose
of one of the parents?

How many years ago was it that most people smoked? A combination of
changing public opinion and increasing taxes made quite a difference.

And I see nothing wrong with limiting the number of children and then
requiring that any man who'd reached the limit have a vasectomy. And
with DNA testing there'd be no doubt who the father was.

And before you ask, yes I did.



So I take it you like the idea of government telling you how to think.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

And then there is the Texas state board of education and their
rewrite of early US history.
----------------------------------------------------

"Swingman" wrote:

Cite?
--------------------------------
Knock yourself out.

http://tinyurl.com/nfezkea

C'mon, Lew. Repetition of the same headline, none of which upon examination
provide a single example of your statement confirming an actual "rewrite of
early US history", does not constitute a "Cite" by any definition of the
word.

Although asking a liberal to provide facts instead of feelings might be a
bit too much to ask, you did make the statement, so _you_ provide an actual
example of this supposed "rewrite of early US history", and not some list
of search engine term results, or your statement will stand as what it
appears to be: partisan twaddle.

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Markem wrote:

The requirements of the Texas State Board of education dominated text
book publishing, so in some view the demanded rewrite US history. Now
to be fair the California requirements were just as much of a PIA. The
volume of text books, made those two states "needs" paramount.

The sorry state of public education is much deeper than the sorry spectacle
of partisan, and religious, politics in matters regarding textbooks in
almost all states, but it is indeed a contributing factor.

That said, the terminology, like the word "adopt", always used by those
with an agenda, suggests that a book is mandated for use, instead of being
"approved for local option".

You see this in screaming headlines like "Texas Adopts "Fearson's Biology"
For Use In High Schools", while the reality is that this (POS, in my
opinion) book is merely included on a list of biology books "approved" for
"local option" by those backward districts who chose to do so (it's a free,
if stupid, country, right?) ... far different reality than what those who
write the headlines want you to believe.

--
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Swingman wrote in
:


The sorry state of public education is much deeper than the sorry
spectacle of partisan, and religious, politics in matters regarding
textbooks in almost all states, but it is indeed a contributing
factor.

That said, the terminology, like the word "adopt", always used by
those with an agenda, suggests that a book is mandated for use,
instead of being "approved for local option".

You see this in screaming headlines like "Texas Adopts "Fearson's
Biology" For Use In High Schools", while the reality is that this
(POS, in my opinion) book is merely included on a list of biology
books "approved" for "local option" by those backward districts who
chose to do so (it's a free, if stupid, country, right?) ... far
different reality than what those who write the headlines want you to
believe.


"Class, open your browsers to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur I know it's
not the best resource, but it's better than the text book. (Who edited
the article to put my picture in it?)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.