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How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 10:18 PM, Morgans wrote:
If you were to in any way compare OSB and Advantec (engineered subfloor composite board) I would argue most strenuously. They are not the same product. Not even close. No, you are entirely correct they are not the same product. That said, Advantech is indeed technically an "oriented strand board" (OSB) product in the way it is manufactured, just like both are technically "plywood". But what a difference ... ;) -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...
On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote: Oooooh, how I love floor trusses! I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality when they are done to precision. And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-) The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension lumber... |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"-MIKE-" wrote I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no? Only in the same way that all chip type engineered lumber products do have the strands oriented. For technical definitions, OSB is the stuff people use for roof sheeting and wall sheeting that is not tongue and groove. The products like Advantec and Goldbond are engineered wood products for floor use and are tongue and groove. The chips and ratio of fine particles are greatly different, and so is the compression and the type of glue. So no, Advantec and their ilk are not OSB. -- Jim in NC --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 10:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers are carrying it now, with better prices and availability. Yep, but not all stores have it on the shelf with regularity like they do with Hardi; and the last I paid for it was around $1.60sf, which can eat a big hole in a tight tile budget. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote: You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period. Amen ... That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again. Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of layers between floors is an issue. I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers are carrying it now, with better prices and availability. Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break. So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked out porcelain tiles.. -- Jeff |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/14, 10:29 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote: Oooooh, how I love floor trusses! I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality when they are done to precision. And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-) The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension lumber... Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 11:17 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote: Oooooh, how I love floor trusses! I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality when they are done to precision. And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-) Yea, my house had an area w/o a ply sister-ed in... I had to cut the pipe, reinforce the joist, then use a coupler to join the waste pipe back in.. I think my builders got their license from the cracker jack box... -- Jeff |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/14, 10:29 PM, Morgans wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no? Only in the same way that all chip type engineered lumber products do have the strands oriented. For technical definitions, OSB is the stuff people use for roof sheeting and wall sheeting that is not tongue and groove. The products like Advantec and Goldbond are engineered wood products for floor use and are tongue and groove. The chips and ratio of fine particles are greatly different, and so is the compression and the type of glue. So no, Advantec and their ilk are not OSB. I know all that, but technically and in the industry, they are. Not the same animal as has been more that adequately explained in this thread, but OSB nonetheless. I don't like to call it that, either, because it's so superior a product and I don't like to "insult" it. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break. Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of the product. I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with floor heights from one room to the next. So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked out porcelain tiles.. I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they do it all the time. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 11:21 PM, Morgans wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such? Let me guess. A laver of 1/2" OSB applied to the joists or trusses, then 5 /8" MDF underlayment (sawdust board)? That was a popular cheap way to do it back then. I never liked it, and never did it that way. OSB on top of OSB. :-( You tell me.. can you hear me screaming. Let me tell you about my foundation/sill. The sill plate is not on the foundation.. it wanders off of it. The brick on the outside is tell tale... it is behind the foundation.. We are the second owners... I didn't notice all the defects until I moved in... Electrical... disaster. This was a highly respected builder... I have no idea how they made it.. They are out of business now.. When everything fell apart the owner retired. -- Jeff |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...
The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension lumber... Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 11:39 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote: Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break. Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of the product. I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with floor heights from one room to the next. So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked out porcelain tiles.. I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they do it all the time. The price for the SD is higher than the per tile price that she picked out... damn... -- Jeff |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/14, 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote: You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period. Amen ... That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again. Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of layers between floors is an issue. I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers are carrying it now, with better prices and availability. Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break. So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked out porcelain tiles.. I can't explain it better than their website, but that never stopped me before. :-) Again, it must be repeated, mortar and tile should never be installed directly on any wood product. I don't care how "advanced' it is. If it expands and contracts at all, it's too much. Cement-board is good but it doesn't really decouple and if your sub-floor/joists have much deflection the grout lines will still crack and you may get tiles separating from the mortar. The real purpose of cement board is to receive any moisture that penetrates the tile and mortor without soaking it up and swelling like a wood product will. Ditra sheeting acts to decouple the subfloor from the mortar. Moisture cannot penetrate. More so, however, it also allows expansion/contraction above and below at different rates without any friction or contact. If there's too much deflection in the floor, Schluter suggests an engineered sub-floor before the Ditra. But, I've known tile contractors who use it on very unstable floors with great success and long term durability. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"Swingman" wrote That said, Advantech is indeed technically an "oriented strand board" (OSB) product in the way it is manufactured, just like both are technically "plywood". Nope. Strand board is not plywood. Plywood is layers of veneers, usually with alternating layers at right angles to each other. Not a stack of chips oriented and glued and compressed. It is all engineered wood products. OSB is manufactured to a totally different set of standards to the strands that are oriented in the engineered product known as Advantec. There are strands, but the lengths and widths of the chips are different, with Advantec strands being much longer and more narrow. They also have a much higher percentage of strands oriented in the long direction in Advantec compared to OSB. Tell me this, as the final test. You go into a lumberyard. You ask for some OSB. You going to get OSB sheathing, or you getting Advantec? I rest my case. -- Jim in NC --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. And, IME, great pains are taken in modern building science and structural engineering/building codes to mitigate that as an issue to basically a moot point. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/14, 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break. So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked out porcelain tiles.. I'm not sure I was clear in this, but the Ditra is absolutely designed and purposed to go right over any sub-floor surface. If going down over a wood product (ply, OSB, engineered sub-floor), they recommend a latex additive to the mortar that will attach the Ditra to the sub-floor. That's the only stipulation. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/14, 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension lumber... Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it. A fire is a fire. ****'s going down. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 10:55 PM, Morgans wrote:
Tell me this, as the final test. You go into a lumberyard. You ask for some OSB. You going to get OSB sheathing, or you getting Advantec? I rest my case. You would be resting on shaky ground as far as building codes go, which is where the rubber meets the road. FACT: for building science and code purposes both are considered the same material, and the term "wood structural panel" is used as a singular description for either. Sorry, Bubba ... but there is simply no room for your argument on that score. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/14, 10:43 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:39 PM, Swingman wrote: On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote: Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break. Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of the product. I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with floor heights from one room to the next. So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked out porcelain tiles.. I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they do it all the time. The price for the SD is higher than the per tile price that she picked out... damn... You have to take everything into consideration. How much is cement board and will it suffice for the floor it's going on? If it will and it's cheaper, great. Schluter systems are a bit pricy, now, but getting more competitive every year. I equate it to engineered lumber. It was way too expensive at first, but the price of solid wood lumber is catching up quick. By the way, the finished surface of any product usually is the cheapest part of a quality installation no? Look at paint. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote:
What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. I would think multiple layers of primer and sanded between each coat until you get a smooth surface and then add the paint. It would probably be less expensive to get a smoother material to work with to begin with. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote: On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. I would think multiple layers of primer and sanded between each coat until you get a smooth surface and then add the paint. It would probably be less expensive to get a smoother material to work with to begin with. Agreed. Any quality building primer is going to cost more (with the amount of build required), and perform more poorly (with the amount of build required), than just getting the right material to start with. Likewise for the other suggestions about laying in fillers of some sort (whether plastic or spackle). Hell - why bother? Too much time, too much expense, just plain not worth the effort. Lew said it right - silk purse, sow's ear... Well, what we don't know is what the application may be.. We can't make a worth while suggestion as there is not enough information. I could picture the OSB already permanently in place and the possibility of not being able to fit a better material over it. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"Swingman" wrote in message
On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, woodchucker wrote: Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such? And still do. Builder's use it for one main reason ... it's cheaper than alternative products. Exactly so. I recently needed some sheet goods for a project. I could buy ply for almost $40 per sheet or OSB for $11. I would have preferred ply but for my use it didn't much matter...skim coat the OSB with drywall mud, sand with a 1/2 sheet sander, prime and paint and it is fine. And I am $100+ richer. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"Spalted Walt" wrote in message
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear poly OSB. http://media.treehugger.com/assets/i...rowe-table.jpg http://media.treehugger.com/assets/i...rowe-chair.jpg http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/666....346149090.jpg http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in...osb?sMiniImg=0 Not bad looking but how do you get rid of the splinters? -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 01:01:25 -0500, Leon wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote: Leon wrote: On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. I would think multiple layers of primer and sanded between each coat until you get a smooth surface and then add the paint. It would probably be less expensive to get a smoother material to work with to begin with. Agreed. Any quality building primer is going to cost more (with the amount of build required), and perform more poorly (with the amount of build required), than just getting the right material to start with. Likewise for the other suggestions about laying in fillers of some sort (whether plastic or spackle). Hell - why bother? Too much time, too much expense, just plain not worth the effort. Lew said it right - silk purse, sow's ear... Well, what we don't know is what the application may be.. We can't make a worth while suggestion as there is not enough information. I could picture the OSB already permanently in place and the possibility of not being able to fit a better material over it. I think he said it's an outdoor wood drying "kiln" behind the house that he just wants to look decent. I's just use board and batten lumber siding and let it weather grey. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...
Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it. A fire is a fire. ****'s going down. :-) In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter, buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run higher. There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I recall, Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name New England Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as the same problem exists there. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...
John Grossbohlin wrote: "Michael" wrote in message ... What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim coat it with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and paint. John Ugh! That will certainly work, but for my money, it's way too much work compared to simply using a better material. Which is why I had the qualifying clause "if it's got to be OSB" ;~) John |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote: On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to make a rough surface look good. It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you just can't do it. OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't supposed to stay wet. it doesn't hold nails or screws real well. I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws designed for particle board. Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate it would be the tkt. That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago. If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant. So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason. But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw, it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding... And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away... You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period. That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again. I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile. Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 22:55:16 -0500, Swingman wrote:
On 4/11/2014 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote: No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. And, IME, great pains are taken in modern building science and structural engineering/building codes to mitigate that as an issue to basically a moot point. What steps? Fire resistant OSB? My current house has the I-beam floor joists. I see nothing protecting them at all. They do seem to be pretty susceptible to fire damage. Once the bottom rail is compromised, there isn't much left to hold up the floor. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 23:00:36 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote: On 4/11/14, 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote: "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension lumber... Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it. A fire is a fire. ****'s going down. :-) Yeah, but it's a matter of whether it goes down before or after we get out. ;-) The fire department's job is to protect the neighbor's house. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/12/2014 9:47 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter, buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run higher. There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I recall, Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name New England Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as the same problem exists there. Wood burns, steel twists and buckles, bricks and stones tumble and fall. St Louis burned to the ground in 1849 and subsequently mandated that all structures be made of brick and stone ... they still had fires and the necessity for a FD. Everything in life is a compromise to some degree, and it is rare to experience any benefit without some attendant risk. **** will happen, but most of us do the best we can to make housing both safe and affordable by assessing the risk versus benefit of those two components. just my tuppence. ;) -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to make a rough surface look good. It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you just can't do it. OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't supposed to stay wet. it doesn't hold nails or screws real well. I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws designed for particle board. Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate it would be the tkt. That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago. If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant. So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason. But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw, it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding... And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away... You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period. That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again. I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile. Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs. FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/12/14, 10:11 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 23:00:36 -0500, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote: "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension lumber... Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it. A fire is a fire. ****'s going down. :-) Yeah, but it's a matter of whether it goes down before or after we get out. ;-) The fire department's job is to protect the neighbor's house. If it's *really* a problem, then why don't codes require new home construction to have sprinkler systems installed? My friend's house came with them. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/12/2014 10:47 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... Are you thinking of metal wire trusses? No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in similar fire conditions. Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it. A fire is a fire. ****'s going down. :-) In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter, buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run higher. There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I recall, Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name New England Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as the same problem exists there. Yep, here in nj all commercial buildings must have a sign showing the type of roof construction. One fire dept lost many fireman (I think 5) when the roof collapsed. I'm not sure it would have made a difference for that fire, as they had to know in a flat roof that it was a truss roof.. -- Jeff |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:25:00 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, wrote: On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote: On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to make a rough surface look good. It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you just can't do it. OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't supposed to stay wet. it doesn't hold nails or screws real well. I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws designed for particle board. Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate it would be the tkt. That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago. If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant. So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason. But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw, it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding... And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away... You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period. That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again. I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile. Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs. FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile? |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On 4/12/2014 2:53 PM, Michael wrote:
On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks. Damn that's a good price?? Where.. I need to make a blast cabinet for sand blasting. I wouldn't even use the OSB for that... -- Jeff |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:11:28 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:
On 4/12/2014 2:53 PM, Michael wrote: On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking. Thanks. Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks. Damn that's a good price?? Where.. I need to make a blast cabinet for sand blasting. I wouldn't even use the OSB for that... -- Jeff Milwaukee, WI. He had only one more sheet to sell. Thank you, Craigslist. |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
"Michael" wrote ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile? Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about. Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a base in making paneling. Don't use that. Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real product we are talking about. The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker. Brand name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows. Sure. That is exactly what it is designed for. The key is to: Use a material that allows some movement in relation to the wood underneath it. Use a material that allows the mastic or grout to grab onto. Has a co-efficient of expansion similar to the stone or tile being installed on it. Does not deteriorate over time as it is exposed to the moisture always present when in contact with masonry products. Meet those requirements, and you have a winner. Hardibacker or cement board, both qualify. -- Jim in NC --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?
On Saturday, April 12, 2014 3:05:41 PM UTC-5, Morgans wrote:
"Michael" wrote ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile? Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about. Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a base in making paneling. Don't use that. Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real product we are talking about. The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker. Brand name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows. Sure. That is exactly what it is designed for. The key is to: Use a material that allows some movement in relation to the wood underneath it. Use a material that allows the mastic or grout to grab onto. Has a co-efficient of expansion similar to the stone or tile being installed on it. Does not deteriorate over time as it is exposed to the moisture always present when in contact with masonry products. Meet those requirements, and you have a winner. Hardibacker or cement board, both qualify. -- Jim in NC --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Awesome. Good to know. Thanks. |
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