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12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/17/2013 7:16 PM, Leon wrote:
We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Thanks for making me feel confident. ;) |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
"Mike" wrote: I have 2 Milwaukee 12V Li battery devices. One is almost 2 years old and the other about 6 months old. They get used a lot and the batteries hardly get warm from use or recharge. However, being a belt and suspender type guy I use a timer as Leon suggested. Not that I'm particularly worried that they will overheat. I just have an aversion to leaving anything on that doesn't need to be on. ----------------------------------------------------- SFWIW, about 96-97 time line I bought an 18 VDC DeWalt drill and panel saw kit. After about a year, DeWalt issued a recall of the charger due to over heating problems. Got a new changer from DeWalt; however, never had any problems with the original one. Lew |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/16/2013 10:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
woodchucker wrote: What Leon was referring to is balancing technology. Which makes sure each cell is in range, and not deviating from the others. That is actually where most of the problems are, especially with low end chargers. The better chargers will monitor each cell rather than the pack and if one cell gets higher than the other it will deplete it while bringing the others up. If they are too far out it shuts down. How do you monitor an idividual cell when they are connected in series? Generally they are not just connected in series. Nicads and nimh were, but not lion or lipo. The better batteries have prongs for the drill, or whatever and another set for monitoring the cells. Charging can be done on the normal prongs, but monitoring is done on the second set. They are not monitoring for heat like nicad and nimh, they are monitoring for voltage. They need to be close, and they can't exceed the recommended cells voltage. Same with depletion of batteries, they can't be drawn down to low or they may not charge again, or worse. So the manufacturers have handled that. You'll see all the lion/lipo units stop when voltage drops. So if you are drawing a lot of amps it will cut out. let it cool and the battery bounces back a bit and you can continue... but it's a matter of time b4 it stops running and needs charging. Even the cheapies have something, probably not as good. Take a look at your pack, you will see another set of connectors. I love the Lithium technology the drills are always ready. No quick discharge like the nicad/nimhs had. -- Jeff |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
Leon wrote:
On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. -- -Mike- |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/17/2013 9:25 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
After about a year, DeWalt issued a recall of the charger due to over heating problems. Got a new changer from DeWalt; however, never had any problems with the original one. Lew I wonder if it is the same one in the Boeing 787 |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/17/2013 7:16 PM, Leon wrote: We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Thanks for making me feel confident. ;) If only the DVR could power down like a computer does when the power is out for more than a few minutes. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 23:37:06 -0600, Leon wrote:
out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Thanks for making me feel confident. ;) If only the DVR could power down like a computer does when the power is out for more than a few minutes I'm a little confused here. Most UPS' (at least mine does) can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. This is a function of the UPS and not some program like Powerchute which lives on a computer. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 23:37:06 -0600, Leon wrote: out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Thanks for making me feel confident. ;) If only the DVR could power down like a computer does when the power is out for more than a few minutes I'm a little confused here. Most UPS' (at least mine does) can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. This is a function of the UPS and not some program like Powerchute which lives on a computer. My UPS and my BIL's is designed to work with a computer. It communicates, it's state of charge and or how long the power had been out, with the computer via a USB cable. When the UPS reaches a preprogrammed condition it signals software on the computer to shut down computer before all power is lost. IIRC there is a warning on the computer screen and an audible alarm on the UPS when power is lost. This gives you enough warning of the event and time to save your work should you actually be working on the computer when this all happens. A DVR cannot communicate with a UPS. You mention that your UPS can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. Is yours not intended to be used with a computer and or does your computer simply lose power from the UPS vs. shutting down before the UPS shuts down? |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 06:44 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote: On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 23:37:06 -0600, Leon wrote: out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Thanks for making me feel confident. ;) If only the DVR could power down like a computer does when the power is out for more than a few minutes I'm a little confused here. Most UPS' (at least mine does) can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. This is a function of the UPS and not some program like Powerchute which lives on a computer. My UPS and my BIL's is designed to work with a computer. It communicates, it's state of charge and or how long the power had been out, with the computer via a USB cable. When the UPS reaches a preprogrammed condition it signals software on the computer to shut down computer before all power is lost. IIRC there is a warning on the computer screen and an audible alarm on the UPS when power is lost. This gives you enough warning of the event and time to save your work should you actually be working on the computer when this all happens. A DVR cannot communicate with a UPS. You mention that your UPS can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. Is yours not intended to be used with a computer and or does your computer simply lose power from the UPS vs. shutting down before the UPS shuts down? I have three APC units. On one, the USB interface quit a couple of years ago, so the computer can't talk to it. On a power outage, it still beeps and after a few minutes, it shuts down the UPS protected outlets. It's still OK for short outages. The other two APC units operate the same way except they notify the computers they are attached to and the computers shut down before the UPS outlets are de-activated. -- "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" -Winston Churchill |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:44:44 -0600, Leon wrote:
You mention that your UPS can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. Is yours not intended to be used with a computer and or does your computer simply lose power from the UPS vs. shutting down before the UPS shuts down? It's intended to work with a computer and will notify you if there's a problem so you can close and save your work. But, if you're not there and there's problem, it will run until the battery gets low and then it runs the Powerchute program on the computer which saves and shuts the computer down. After that if the power gets so low that it's close to a brown out state, it shuts all power off. This is preferable to actually going into the brown out state which can cause serious damage to hardware. So whatever device you have plugged into the UPS, computer, DVD or otherwise, would be shut down. I was under the impression that all/most UPS' could/should be able to do that. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:38:37 -0500, Mike wrote: On 11/17/2013 11:42 AM, wrote: On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 09:48:44 -0500, Mike wrote: On 11/16/2013 11:06 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/16/2013 9:35 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: dpb wrote: On 11/15/2013 7:26 PM, patrick wrote: As to lithium batteries yay or nay. ... I'm still holding off...heard too many firsthand stories of chargers overheating to be comfortable having one in the house or barn lest I forget to unplug it. You'd be very well advised to check into those stories before placing too much confidence in them. Most recent story of just a couple of months ago--JD dealer here has started carrying Milwaukee, Makita, and another one or two in new dealership showroom besides the Green-branded stuff (the maker of whom for them I'm not positive--need to ask Russ about that). Anyway was looking for the LED lantern attachment to go on the existing Milwaukee NiMH packs I have for winter backup power-outage lighting relief and didn't have any for them, only the Li. So that naturally go to the discussion of same and he mentioned he'd had three packs overheat and nearly start fires on different tools/manufacturers and they had also had trouble with some in the shop. So his take was "don't leave them unattended" -- mine is "not taking a chance" at least yet. I find that very hard to believe. Very hard. Dealer's stories are not all that reliable. Especially if the dealer is older or fixed in some older way of doing business. You really don't think this would be more well publicized if it were really true? It could happen.....right after the dusc collector explodes from a spark. ;~) I think the safe bet is to put the charger on a electric timer to shut the power off after a couple of hours or what ever the normal charging time is. I think the stories of Li batteries bursting into flames got started years ago as a result of early use by the R/C crowd. Model plane flyers are always looking for a way to reduce weight and Li batteries were seen as the new perfect answer. The problem was they would frequently build their packs without the benefit of knowing how to protect them from under or over charge. Discharge too low and you kill the battery. Overcharge it and you have instant fire. The fix, of course, was to add circuitry to prevent either condition. R/C modelers have had issues with NiCd, too. However, the issue with LiIon is real, if overstated in the "sky is falling" press. Laptops have had trouble as has the Tesla (a burning $100K car would **** me off). I witnessed one LiIon fire at my PPoE - one of ours. :-( True enough. A lot of it was self inflicted though. A lot was cause by a premature rollout of LiIon, but not all. Again, any time you pack that much energy into a small space, you're asking for trouble. Some tool chargers are pretty aggressive, too. It's not enough for me to shy away from the technology, though. Any energy storage device has to be considered dangerous. I don't lose sleep about the gas can in my garage, either. I have 2 Milwaukee 12V Li battery devices. One is almost 2 years old and the other about 6 months old. They get used a lot and the batteries hardly get warm from use or recharge. How long is the charge cycle. Heat is a fact of life. It can't be mitigated by the color of the plastic. Around 1.5 hours. I didn't say the color mattered. However, you could get more or less heat depending on how the manufacturer chose to handle the charge cycle. I mentioned the brand in the interest of full disclosure. The reason is that it's only .7C. Chargers (batteries) running at 4C will get hot. It's not the brand. It's the physics. I understand that. However, being a belt and suspender type guy I use a timer as Leon suggested. Not that I'm particularly worried that they will overheat. I just have an aversion to leaving anything on that doesn't need to be on. Do you unplug your TV every time you shut it "off", too? Your lamps? Lamps? No, flipping the switch takes care of that just like the timer on the charger does. Everything in the entertainment center is connected to a power strip. Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) Well, everything but the DVR. If I did, it would reset its clock, but wouldn't record the couple of shows I watch. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
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12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. Ease up, Leon. Mike was referring to the brown out comment, not the fact that non computer devices don't get a shut down signal. My UPS by APC will not "brown out" as the battery runs down, it will shut down instantly with no transient spikes or other damaging activity when it can no longer supply full power to the UPS outlets. So I agree with Mike - a ups that doesn't shutdown instantly when unable to supply full power instead of browning out is nothing I would want powering any device. -- "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" -Winston Churchill |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 01:26 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 11/18/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. Ease up, Leon. Mike was referring to the brown out comment, not the fact that non computer devices don't get a shut down signal. My UPS by APC will not "brown out" as the battery runs down, it will shut down instantly with no transient spikes or other damaging activity when it can no longer supply full power to the UPS outlets. So I agree with Mike - a ups that doesn't shutdown instantly when unable to supply full power instead of browning out is nothing I would want powering any device. BTW, an easy way to determine if a UPS shuts down instantly or "browns out" when there is a power outage is to plug in an incandescent light into one of the UPS outlets and then uplug the UPS. After the battery is unable to supply full power, the light should turn off instantly, not dim over minutes or seconds. -- "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" -Winston Churchill |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. All but the most low-end uninterruptable power supplies have a notification means. Anything from relay contacts to a USB port, depending on generation and capability. If the DVR has both a USB host port and UPS software on-board, then it should be able to respond to the UPS low-time notification and initiate an orderly power down procedure. I've read that some Tivo's will support a standard USB HID UPS device, but have no personal experience with that. In any case, a well-designed UPS won't provide a low line voltage to any protected device(s). Unfortunately, there are a glut of cheap, poorly crafted UPS devices available on the market. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:52:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/17/2013 9:25 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: After about a year, DeWalt issued a recall of the charger due to over heating problems. Got a new changer from DeWalt; however, never had any problems with the original one. Lew I wonder if it is the same one in the Boeing 787 Probably not. Lew said he never had any problems with his. Mr. B has had a few. ;-) |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
Leon wrote:
Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. No - I can't. I don't know that DVR's can receive a signal from a UPS. I was (maybe mistakenly) speaking of how a UPS typically associates with a computer. Most provide a signalling for low battery to allow for the computer to shutdown. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. What? Me? -- -Mike- |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 2:46 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 11/18/2013 01:26 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote: On 11/18/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. Ease up, Leon. Mike was referring to the brown out comment, not the fact that non computer devices don't get a shut down signal. My UPS by APC will not "brown out" as the battery runs down, it will shut down instantly with no transient spikes or other damaging activity when it can no longer supply full power to the UPS outlets. So I agree with Mike - a ups that doesn't shutdown instantly when unable to supply full power instead of browning out is nothing I would want powering any device. BTW, an easy way to determine if a UPS shuts down instantly or "browns out" when there is a power outage is to plug in an incandescent light into one of the UPS outlets and then uplug the UPS. After the battery is unable to supply full power, the light should turn off instantly, not dim over minutes or seconds. I would be looking for an easier way at the store before I bought one. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 09:31 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/18/2013 2:46 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote: On 11/18/2013 01:26 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote: On 11/18/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. Ease up, Leon. Mike was referring to the brown out comment, not the fact that non computer devices don't get a shut down signal. My UPS by APC will not "brown out" as the battery runs down, it will shut down instantly with no transient spikes or other damaging activity when it can no longer supply full power to the UPS outlets. So I agree with Mike - a ups that doesn't shutdown instantly when unable to supply full power instead of browning out is nothing I would want powering any device. BTW, an easy way to determine if a UPS shuts down instantly or "browns out" when there is a power outage is to plug in an incandescent light into one of the UPS outlets and then uplug the UPS. After the battery is unable to supply full power, the light should turn off instantly, not dim over minutes or seconds. I would be looking for an easier way at the store before I bought one. APC - no problems. http://www.apc.com/site/products/ind...m/?segmentID=1 -- "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" -Winston Churchill |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 2:26 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 11/18/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. Ease up, Leon. Mike was referring to the brown out comment, not the fact that non computer devices don't get a shut down signal. I missed that part in his comment. I was talking about a UPS shutting down a Satelite/DVR, I thought he was too. My UPS by APC will not "brown out" as the battery runs down, it will shut down instantly with no transient spikes or other damaging activity when it can no longer supply full power to the UPS outlets. So I agree with Mike - a ups that doesn't shutdown instantly when unable to supply full power instead of browning out is nothing I would want powering any device. Given the choice neither would I. Until this conversation I was unaware that such a feature existed. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 3:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes: On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. All but the most low-end uninterruptable power supplies have a notification means. Anything from relay contacts to a USB port, depending on generation and capability. If the DVR has both a USB host port and UPS software on-board, then it should be able to respond to the UPS low-time notification and initiate an orderly power down procedure. I've read that some Tivo's will support a standard USB HID UPS device, but have no personal experience with that. Understood this is not rocket science, but please tell me which satelite/dvr will have all the features that you mentioned above. Lots of if's you mention. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/2013 6:07 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote: Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. No - I can't. I don't know that DVR's can receive a signal from a UPS. I was (maybe mistakenly) speaking of how a UPS typically associates with a computer. Most provide a signalling for low battery to allow for the computer to shutdown. Exactly, however the major satellite providers don't offer this feature but if they could that would mean that even a crappy UPS would work just fine even though it might not offer protection from it's won from brown out. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. What? Me? First Offering Sarcasm. ;~) |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 11/18/2013 09:31 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/18/2013 2:46 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote: On 11/18/2013 01:26 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote: On 11/18/2013 12:59 PM, Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 9:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: On 11/17/2013 5:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 11/17/2013 6:15 PM, wrote: Do you really turn the entire entertainment system off when you leave the house? Amazing. Our satellite box would go bonkers. You must love resetting clocks. ;-) We were having some less than a second power blips that would knock out the sat receiver. It was such a PITA that I finally put it on a UPS. Problem solved. Problem may not be solved. My BIL had his satellite system on a UPS to take care of the blips then one day when they were away from the house for a few hours because the power had gone out for an extended period of time the UPS went dead and the satellite tuner/DVR permanently freaked out because of the low voltage coming from the UPS as it was running out of back up power. He created his own brown out machine. The whole tuner/DVR had to be replaced. Crappy UPS in that case. A decent UPS would provide signalling to shut down the system at the point where power was getting marginal. Can you name a UPS that will actually do what you said, signal to shut down the satellite receiver/DVR? I don't know of any satellite DVR's that actually communicate with a UPS to power down. Another case of people not knowing or caring enough to really understand, and simply buying blind eye, wishful confidence. I think you may be FOS. Ease up, Leon. Mike was referring to the brown out comment, not the fact that non computer devices don't get a shut down signal. My UPS by APC will not "brown out" as the battery runs down, it will shut down instantly with no transient spikes or other damaging activity when it can no longer supply full power to the UPS outlets. So I agree with Mike - a ups that doesn't shutdown instantly when unable to supply full power instead of browning out is nothing I would want powering any device. BTW, an easy way to determine if a UPS shuts down instantly or "browns out" when there is a power outage is to plug in an incandescent light into one of the UPS outlets and then uplug the UPS. After the battery is unable to supply full power, the light should turn off instantly, not dim over minutes or seconds. I would be looking for an easier way at the store before I bought one. APC - no problems. http://www.apc.com/site/products/ind...m/?segmentID=1 I took a look at the APC site, and I have long been aware that APC is a better brand. That said I looked at what appeared to be a low end and a high end " Back-UPS" and looked at the features and benefits section an did not see any thing that specifically pointed out the feature of shutting off out put before voltage dropped to a specific point. I'm not doubting what you are saying about this feature but would certainly like to know what to look for specifically when shopping for a new one. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 23:31:05 -0600, Leon wrote:
I'm not doubting what you are saying about this feature but would certainly like to know what to look for specifically when shopping for a new one. I believe this one would fill your need. That being said, I'd query them and confirm that it will power off instead of going into a brownout condition when the battery is exhausted. http://www.tripplite.com/en/products...xtModelID=3193 |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
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12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 19 Nov 2013 06:06:39 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote: wrote in : My Makita batteries don't last long at all. I don't use the drills anymore because I got tired of buying batteries. There was a bad batch of 18V LiON batteries some time ago. Lots of complaints on Amazon about it. Mine are about 3 years old and getting weak, but that's about the lifetime of LiON batteries anyway. My Makitas are NiCd. At my PPoE we had some "new" batteries that were three years old (stock for a widget that was *way* late to market). We grabbed a bunch of them and did a life test. They were still better than 90% capacity. It's not time that kills LiIons (so much), rather charge cycles. Unlike NiCds, they really do have a long shelf life. |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/17/13 12:38 PM, Mike wrote:
Lamps? No, flipping the switch takes care of that just like the timer on the charger does. Everything in the entertainment center is connected to a power strip. Chargers also present a small power drain even when no batteries are present. My two Milwaukee chargers (NiMH and Li) draw about 10 watts when unloaded. Put them on a timer for 1 hour a day and the trickle charge will keep the batteries up if needed and you can save a few watts (over the losses in powering the timer) and maybe help pay for a new battery after several years. Of course it makes no financial sense to buy a new timer, but if you are like me and have several just sitting in a 'junk' box on a shelf.... -Bruce |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/18/13 8:01 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/18/2013 8:49 AM, wrote: On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:44:44 -0600, Leon wrote: You mention that your UPS can be configured to power down if it starts getting low on battery power. Is yours not intended to be used with a computer and or does your computer simply lose power from the UPS vs. shutting down before the UPS shuts down? It's intended to work with a computer and will notify you if there's a problem so you can close and save your work. But, if you're not there and there's problem, it will run until the battery gets low and then it runs the Powerchute program on the computer which saves and shuts the computer down. After that if the power gets so low that it's close to a brown out state, it shuts all power off. This is preferable to actually going into the brown out state which can cause serious damage to hardware. Gotcha! Obliviously the one my BIL used would not shut power to the device when it got low. So whatever device you have plugged into the UPS, computer, DVD or otherwise, would be shut down. I was under the impression that all/most UPS' could/should be able to do that. Apparently not the older less expensive ones from Cyber Power. 'better' UPSs will only let the battery discharge to about 80% before shutting down, This is to prevent deep cycling the batteries which helps extend their life. I have about a half dozen around the house protecting various things, Any UPS should have batteries that last years if all you get are short power 'blips'. Around here, if it isn't just a blip, it usually will last for about an hour (I guess that means a crew had to be dispatched). I see a definite correlation with battery replacements being more frequent on my cheap vs. 'good' UPSs. -Bruce |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/23/2013 10:02 AM, Brewster wrote:
I have about a half dozen around the house protecting various things, Any UPS should have batteries that last years if all you get are short power 'blips'. Around here, if it isn't just a blip, it usually will last for about an hour (I guess that means a crew had to be dispatched). I see a definite correlation with battery replacements being more frequent on my cheap vs. 'good' UPSs. When my home flooded with 3' water in 2001 at 1AM, the first thing I did was wade through water to cut off the electricity. Prudent thing to do ... but tell that to the four, submerged, UPS' that immediately kicked in. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net google.com/+KarlCaillouet http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?
On 11/23/13 9:23 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/23/2013 10:02 AM, Brewster wrote: I have about a half dozen around the house protecting various things, Any UPS should have batteries that last years if all you get are short power 'blips'. Around here, if it isn't just a blip, it usually will last for about an hour (I guess that means a crew had to be dispatched). I see a definite correlation with battery replacements being more frequent on my cheap vs. 'good' UPSs. When my home flooded with 3' water in 2001 at 1AM, the first thing I did was wade through water to cut off the electricity. Prudent thing to do ... but tell that to the four, submerged, UPS' that immediately kicked in. But at least you didn't need to reset your clocks or reboot your computers right 8^) |
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