[SonomaProducts.com]

I don't frequent any other forums and have a basic electrical question so thought I would try it here.

When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire "through" every outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T off of an existing circuit?

I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across the top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would like to clip the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of two wire romex running down to a new outlet box and splice the clipped ones back together so the original ones keep working.

If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down to the new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other side of the outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the clip so the circuit runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.

I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.

Questions.

To code? Don't really care, just wonder.
Safe? Do care.

Of course I also run the ground wire as well.

[dpb]

On 8/14/2013 4:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
....

When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire
"through" every outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T
off of an existing circuit?

In principle, "yes", that's all the original circuit is doing...

I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across
the top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would
like to clip the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of
two wire romex running down to a new outlet box and splice the
clipped ones back together so the original ones keep working.

If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see
circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down
to the new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other
side of the outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the
clip so the circuit runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.

I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.

Questions.

To code? Don't really care, just wonder. Safe? Do care.

That makes a parallel connection of that outlet w/ the rest; afaik
there's no prohibition in the Code to doing that. Wne would run cable
down and back and just connect in series to keep it that way.

As for the box, all code says is that you _must_ use a junction box w/ a
cover and that box then must remain accessible -- and "accessible"
doesn't mean back under the drywall even when you know where it is--it
must be available w/ nothing structural in the way of access...it can be
a panel door, or somesuch, just must be able to get to it w/o demolition.

There are some rules about load limits and outlets used depending on
whether it is 15 or 20A circuit.

Of course I also run the ground wire as well.

Of course...

--

[SonomaProducts.com]

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:44:04 PM UTC-7, dpb wrote:
On 8/14/2013 4:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


As for the box, all code says is that you _must_ use a junction box w/ a

cover and that box then must remain accessible -- and "accessible"

doesn't mean back under the drywall even when you know where it is--it

must be available w/ nothing structural in the way of access...it can be

a panel door, or somesuch, just must be able to get to it w/o demolition.



There are some rules about load limits and outlets used depending on

whether it is 15 or 20A circuit.


Thanks so much for the answer and explanation.

Yes I am aware of the code about junction boxes, accessibility, max loading, etc. Of course I thought I knew the code and once did all my splices in boxes and blithely covered them with sheet rock during my last home renovation but have since learned more about this area when I recently pulled a permit for a remodel of a rental property and studied up a bit.

This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented barn\shop so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky when my (sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment in time a pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of the electrical system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled from one leg of a 220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase or some sort of imbalance when they get a big draw.

[Dr. Deb[_2_]]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:44:04 PM UTC-7, dpb wrote:
On 8/14/2013 4:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


As for the box, all code says is that you _must_ use a junction box w/ a

cover and that box then must remain accessible -- and "accessible"

doesn't mean back under the drywall even when you know where it is--it

must be available w/ nothing structural in the way of access...it can be

a panel door, or somesuch, just must be able to get to it w/o demolition.



There are some rules about load limits and outlets used depending on

whether it is 15 or 20A circuit.


Thanks so much for the answer and explanation.

Yes I am aware of the code about junction boxes, accessibility, max
loading, etc. Of course I thought I knew the code and once did all my
splices in boxes and blithely covered them with sheet rock during my last
home renovation but have since learned more about this area when I
recently pulled a permit for a remodel of a rental property and studied up
a bit.

This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented barn\shop
so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky when my
(sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment in time a
pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of the electrical
system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled from one leg of a
220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase or some sort of
imbalance when they get a big draw.


In a normal breaker box, you come in with 230 and branch out with your 110
legs (and/or 230).

I would do the same on this installation and NOT take all the circuits off
one leg of the 230. As you said, it can cause problems, beside which, you
are only utlizing one half of what is available to you.

Deb

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

Dr. Deb wrote:
SonomaProducts.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:44:04 PM UTC-7, dpb wrote:
On 8/14/2013 4:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


As for the box, all code says is that you _must_ use a junction box
w/ a

cover and that box then must remain accessible -- and "accessible"

doesn't mean back under the drywall even when you know where it
is--it

must be available w/ nothing structural in the way of access...it
can be

a panel door, or somesuch, just must be able to get to it w/o
demolition.



There are some rules about load limits and outlets used depending on

whether it is 15 or 20A circuit.


Thanks so much for the answer and explanation.

Yes I am aware of the code about junction boxes, accessibility, max
loading, etc. Of course I thought I knew the code and once did all my
splices in boxes and blithely covered them with sheet rock during my
last home renovation but have since learned more about this area
when I recently pulled a permit for a remodel of a rental property
and studied up a bit.

This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented
barn\shop so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky
when my (sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment
in time a pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of
the electrical system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled
from one leg of a 220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase
or some sort of imbalance when they get a big draw.


In a normal breaker box, you come in with 230 and branch out with
your 110 legs (and/or 230).

I would do the same on this installation and NOT take all the
circuits off one leg of the 230. As you said, it can cause problems,
beside which, you are only utlizing one half of what is available to
you.


Actually - he is utilizing all of what is available to him. Yes there can
be load balance issues if one is not careful, but he has described nothing
of that sort. More importantly - he's absolutely not using one half of what
is available to him.

--

-Mike-

[dpb]

On 8/14/2013 6:35 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
....

This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented
barn\shop so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky
when my (sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment
in time a pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of
the electrical system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled
from one leg of a 220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase
or some sort of imbalance when they get a big draw.

That's _bad_...

Can't tell from afar w/ no info how to most effectively deal with it,
but there definitely shouldn't be that much of a potential load
imbalance between the two legs of the 230 service.

Sounds like the side outlet is the least of your problems.

--

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

dpb wrote:
On 8/14/2013 6:35 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
...

This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented
barn\shop so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky
when my (sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment
in time a pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of
the electrical system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled
from one leg of a 220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase
or some sort of imbalance when they get a big draw.

That's _bad_...

Can't tell from afar w/ no info how to most effectively deal with it,
but there definitely shouldn't be that much of a potential load
imbalance between the two legs of the 230 service.

Sounds like the side outlet is the least of your problems.

Agreed. SonomaProducts has described in only partial ways, more than one
issue. The fire was one issue and that is not a load imbalance issue.
Rewiring some of the outlets that are on a particular leg may or may not
even be applicable. If a big draw isn't tripping a breaker, then it's
either not a big draw, or something else is very wrong.

This is exactly the kind of problem and question that is best served by
shelling out a couple of bucks for an electrician to come in and take a real
look. Not a good foundation for a usenet newsgroup solution.

--

-Mike-

[jloomis[_2_]]

That is my first impression. The breaker is too large for the receptacle,
and is not tripping.
john

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

dpb wrote:
On 8/14/2013 6:35 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
...

This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented
barn\shop so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky
when my (sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment
in time a pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of
the electrical system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled
from one leg of a 220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase
or some sort of imbalance when they get a big draw.

That's _bad_...

Can't tell from afar w/ no info how to most effectively deal with it,
but there definitely shouldn't be that much of a potential load
imbalance between the two legs of the 230 service.

Sounds like the side outlet is the least of your problems.

Agreed. SonomaProducts has described in only partial ways, more than one
issue. The fire was one issue and that is not a load imbalance issue.
Rewiring some of the outlets that are on a particular leg may or may not
even be applicable. If a big draw isn't tripping a breaker, then it's
either not a big draw, or something else is very wrong.

This is exactly the kind of problem and question that is best served by
shelling out a couple of bucks for an electrician to come in and take a real
look. Not a good foundation for a usenet newsgroup solution.

--

-Mike-

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:


This little branching project is to fix a problem in my rented
barn\shop so no inspections, just want it safe. I was pretty lucky
when my (sub-lease) tenant happened to be in the barn at the moment
in time a pinched wire started a fire. So after a full inspection of
the electrical system I am rewiring some 110 outlets that are pulled
from one leg of a 220 circuit and seem to be throwing off the phase
or some sort of imbalance when they get a big draw.

Did someone advise you that they are "throwing off the phase or some sort of
imbalance"? Not to say that a heavy draw could not cause you problems if
the loads are imbalanced, but adding an outlet to that branch is going to
absolutely nothing to address a load balance problem if one indeed exists.
Something is sounding very wrong here.

All 120v outlets are fed off of one leg of a 240v service. That's how you
get 120v. You haven't described any planned work that is going to relieve
any possible load imbalance. Maybe you're just not sharing the complete
scope of work in the interest of your specific question?

Be careful - it seems like you are guessing at things that you don't
understand well. You're not going to "throw off the phase" with a load
imbalance - whatever "throw off a phase" is intended to mean. If you're
guessing, then I'd suggest you don't do so, and perhaps consider the small
expense of an electrician on-site to really look at what you have and
suggest what you should do. You can get into real trouble guessing at
things you don't understand and making changes that you believe are going to
be effective, but really are not.


--

-Mike-

[SonomaProducts.com]

O
Be careful - it seems like you are guessing at things that you don't

understand well. You're not going to "throw off the phase" with a load

imbalance - whatever "throw off a phase" is intended to mean. If you're

guessing, then I'd suggest you don't do so, and perhaps consider the small

expense of an electrician on-site to really look at what you have and

suggest what you should do. You can get into real trouble guessing at

things you don't understand and making changes that you believe are going to

be effective, but really are not.



Thanks all. A few clarifications.

1. The fire problem was a beam had shifted on a column (post) and pinched some romex and started a fire. We fixed that.

2. That made me hincky so I started looking at the rest of the electrical.

3. My tenant had attached his 18 amp cutoff saw to a 110 box that was pulled from the 220 circuit. I don't understand exactly how this all worked. When my landlord had an electrician add the 220 box I told him I wanted 110 at the same location. The electrician installed hard conduit with the 220 wires attached to a 220 outlet and also one white and one blue 12g wire capped off in the box and he told me it was from one leg of the 220 and I could use it for my 110. So I put in a 110 outlet using those available wires.

3a.

4. When my tenant uses his 18 amp saw, the radio on the same 110 circuit would stop working and come back on when he was done sawing. This worried me even though now I think the problem was probably just too many amps being drawn, regardless of how things were wired.

5. The (same) electrician came back, reviewed the issue and told me it was a problem having that 110 pulled from there. He said they had to do some tricks to pull a 220 circuit from my panel which is a sub-panel pulled from the main panel in another section of the bar. There is something weird because I think the 220 circuit is controlled by two breakers. Go figure.

6. I rewired the 110 circuit so it no longer pulls from the blue and white wires in the 220 conduit but rather comes from the branch off another existing 110 circuit.

7. I am having the electrician come back and look at my work but if you see me listing slightly toasted ww equipment for sale you'll know that things didn't go well at all.

[Bill[_47_]]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
5. The (same) electrician came back, reviewed the issue and told me it
was a problem having that 110 pulled from there. He said they had to
do some tricks to pull a 220 circuit from my panel which is a
sub-panel pulled from the main panel in another section of the bar.
There is something weird because I think the 220 circuit is controlled
by two breakers.


Just curious--what do those in the know think of that "strategy" (one
breaker from each leg)?

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Thanks all. A few clarifications.

1. The fire problem was a beam had shifted on a column (post) and
pinched some romex and started a fire. We fixed that.


Ok - thanks for that clarification.

3. My tenant had attached his 18 amp cutoff saw to a 110 box that was
pulled from the 220 circuit. I don't understand exactly how this all
worked. When my landlord had an electrician add the 220 box I told
him I wanted 110 at the same location. The electrician installed hard
conduit with the 220 wires attached to a 220 outlet and also one
white and one blue 12g wire capped off in the box and he told me it
was from one leg of the 220 and I could use it for my 110. So I put
in a 110 outlet using those available wires.

As long as he followed code (which I'm assuming he did), then he gave you a
neutral (white) and one leg of the 240v panel. Nothing wrong in that at
all. It's essentially the same thing as wiring in a 120v circit in a
panel - just a few feet away.

4. When my tenant uses his 18 amp saw, the radio on the same 110
circuit would stop working and come back on when he was done sawing.
This worried me even though now I think the problem was probably just
too many amps being drawn, regardless of how things were wired.

I'd think the problem was interference from the saw motor - RF interference.
Don't think that it was too many amps being drawn. If that were the case,
the breaker should have tripped. Unless... the breaker...


5. The (same) electrician came back, reviewed the issue and told me
it was a problem having that 110 pulled from there. He said they had
to do some tricks to pull a 220 circuit from my panel which is a
sub-panel pulled from the main panel in another section of the bar.
There is something weird because I think the 220 circuit is
controlled by two breakers. Go figure.

He's blowing smoke clear up your ass and taking your money while he does it.
He had to "do tricks"? Sorry but that is pure bull**** and you need to drop
that guy like a hot potato as soon as you can. If your 240v feed is
interupped by two separate breakers then you've really got a clown of an
electrician on your hands. Is this guy really an electrician or just a guy
who has hacked a couple of wiring jobs together for friends, and does not
even really know if he did it correctly? I'll tell ya again - from what he
said to you - he's the latter and is dangerous to you.

I'm going to repeat myself here - you really need to pay just a couple short
bucks and let a real electrician take a look. You don't have to hire him to
do the repair work, but you really need to understand what the previous hack
blundered his way through to "make it work". Ya know what - if you were
near Syracuse NY, I'd stop by and fix it for you for free, just to help you
through this, but unless you can afford to move...



6. I rewired the 110 circuit so it no longer pulls from the blue and
white wires in the 220 conduit but rather comes from the branch off
another existing 110 circuit.

Why? And... to what effect? Maybe to no real problematic effect, but you
really can't just start jumping in and "moving" things around until, or in
such a manner that they seem to work - if you really do not understand the
existing wiring, and what you need to do, should do, and the reasons behind
these decisions.

I'm really not trying to insult your inteligence here, or to insult your
abilities. It's just that from what I've read, it seems that you're either
short cutting information (in the interest of cutting to the chase), or that
you don't really understand electrical wiring. No insult intended, but it
seems the latter is the case, and I think you'll be better served by getting
someone more knowledgeable in there. You can hack things together that seem
to work without even knowing or understanding a miriad of other problems you
are introducing.

There's more than one right way to wire, but there's even more wrong ways to
wire.



7. I am having the electrician come back and look at my work but if
you see me listing slightly toasted ww equipment for sale you'll know
that things didn't go well at all.

Kudos to ya for the intention of having your work reviewed, but do yourself
a favor and bring in a different electrician. As described, this guy is not
an electrician and you really should not trust anything he tells you.

--

-Mike-

[Swingman]

On 8/15/2013 3:57 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

snip He said they had to do some tricks to pull a 220 circuit from my panel which is a sub-panel pulled from the main panel in another section of the bar. There is something weird because I think the 220 circuit is controlled by two breakers. Go figure.

Although this was not an uncommon practice in the old days of fuse box
panels, his word "tricks" was shorthand for "we had to violate code AND
sacrifice your safety to get you a 240 circuit".

Assuming (and don't ASSUME anything when you're dealing with
electricity) you have single phase 240v at your service entry, there are
TWO, separate, 120v "legs", of opposing phase, attached to TWO,
separate, HOT bus bars in your service and sub panels.

Single pole circuit breakers provide 120 volts and connect to just one
of these hot bus bar.

Double pole circuit breakers provide 240 volts to a circuit and plug
into both hot of these bus bars.

While you can indeed use two single pole circuit breakers to make up the
necessary voltage for a 240v circuit, one circuit breaker on each of the
HOT bars (and possibly nowhere near each other in the panel), both
circuit breakers have to be tripped at the same time _if they are to
provide the safety that comes from using circuit breakers in the first
place_ (to protect the wiring first and foremost; and very importantly,
to protect you when working on the receptacle, and/or the equipment
plugged into the receptacle).

IOW, if only one of the single pole circuit breakers trips, there is
still 120v being fed to the plugged in equipment ... a highly dangerous
situation for the unwary DIY'er, to say the least.

Any "electrician" who would do this to an unwary public deserves to lose
his license, and be shot.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

dpb wrote:
On 8/14/2013 4:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
...

When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire
"through" every outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T
off of an existing circuit?

In principle, "yes", that's all the original circuit is doing...

I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across
the top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would
like to clip the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of
two wire romex running down to a new outlet box and splice the
clipped ones back together so the original ones keep working.

If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see
circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down
to the new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other
side of the outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the
clip so the circuit runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.

I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.

Questions.

To code? Don't really care, just wonder. Safe? Do care.

That makes a parallel connection of that outlet w/ the rest; afaik
there's no prohibition in the Code to doing that. Wne would run cable
down and back and just connect in series to keep it that way.

You are correct that there is no prohibition of parallel circuits - in
fact... they are the required circuit. Series circuits - not so much.
Branch circuits as he is describing are required to be in parallel. All he
needs is one 12/2 run down from the junction box to the new outlet. The
parallel connection is made in the junction box and the outlet is just a
simple termination.


As for the box, all code says is that you _must_ use a junction box
w/ a cover and that box then must remain accessible -- and
"accessible" doesn't mean back under the drywall even when you know
where it is--it must be available w/ nothing structural in the way of
access...it can be a panel door, or somesuch, just must be able to
get to it w/o demolition.
There are some rules about load limits and outlets used depending on
whether it is 15 or 20A circuit.

Of course I also run the ground wire as well.

If he's using romex (or what we all refer to as romex) it will have a ground
in the sheath. I'm not sure you could find a romex-type wire today that did
not contain a ground - or at least easily.


--

-Mike-

[Bill[_47_]]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I don't frequent any other forums and have a basic electrical question so thought I would try it here.

When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire "through" every outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T off of an existing circuit?

I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across the top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would like to clip the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of two wire romex running down to a new outlet box and splice the clipped ones back together so the original ones keep working.

If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down to the new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other side of the outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the clip so the circuit runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.

I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.

Questions.

To code? Don't really care, just wonder.
Safe? Do care.

Of course I also run the ground wire as well.
And you would "pigtail" the ground wires to the junction box. I think
that both of the wiring options you describe are fine. "Branching" gets
3 less wires, and 3 fewer wire nuts, in the junction box and uses less
wire. I have *no* qualifications to dispense any information which
should be relied upon. Especially whether it is better to "branch" or
"go through" the receptacle. However I am leaning towards the branching
solution for the rationale given. There are probably others here who
would be happy to assess for you my knowledge of matters electrical..
But I hope they recognize that I am coming along! : )

Bill

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:18:50 PM UTC-5, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I don't frequent any other forums and have a basic electrical question so thought I would try it here.



When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire "through" every outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T off of an existing circuit?



I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across the top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would like to clip the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of two wire romex running down to a new outlet box and splice the clipped ones back together so the original ones keep working.



If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down to the new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other side of the outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the clip so the circuit runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.



I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.



Questions.



To code? Don't really care, just wonder.

Safe? Do care.



Of course I also run the ground wire as well.

I don't see a problem with your plan, although I can't speak for "code," and that may well be different in different areas. However, why not run 3 wire Romex down, and ground the thing?

[Mike Marlow[_2_]]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I don't frequent any other forums and have a basic electrical
question so thought I would try it here.

When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire
"through" every outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T
off of an existing circuit?

To be more accurate, the wire is run to a box, it is then either pig tailed
to the feed to the next box as well as the wires to actually hit the outlet
(device) in the first box, or (frequently, but not desireable), the feed in
and the feed out to the next box are both connected to the device using the
upper and lower screws on each side of the device. The second uses the
device to make the circuit a parallel circuit and is not desireable because
a broken device will most likely kill everything downstream. Pig tails
continue to feed all downstream devices even if an outlet gets broken. The
important distinction here is that the wire is not run through every outlet.
That would be a series connection and you don't want that. You want a
parallel connection. These are electrical terms and do not describe the
physical layout of your wiring.


I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across
the top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would
like to clip the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of
two wire romex running down to a new outlet box and splice the
clipped ones back together so the original ones keep working.

You'll need to have at least a foot of slack to do this. You need to have
6" of conductor inside your junction box in order to make your connections
and wrap the wire in the box. If you have that much slack, then you can
indeed go this route. Use 12/2 (assuming a 20 amp circuit) which will also
contain a ground wire in the sheath. So that you get better help in a
supply store, use the term two conductor rather than two wire.


If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see
circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down
to the new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other
side of the outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the
clip so the circuit runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.

Nope. You could do that, but you'd have to make two connections in your
junction box instead of just one. Just drop a length of 12/2 down from the
new junction box to the new outlet box. Make the connection in the outlet
box as usual - black to brass, white to silver and ground (bare) to green.
Screw in the outlet and that box is done.

Back up at your junction box - twist all three of the blacks together (feed
in, new drop down to new outlet, and feed out to other existing box) and
wire nut them. Do the same with the whites. Likewise with the grounds
except that if you're using a metal box, leave one of the ground wires long
so you can screw it to the box to ground it. You can either use crimp
sleeves to do this, or you can use green wire nuts with a hole in the top
that the long strand can run through.


I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.

Questions.

To code? Don't really care, just wonder.
Safe? Do care.

Safe if you keep all the colors grouped together and make sure you ground
all metal boxes. Wise? No - as stated, you're suggesting to run an
unessary wire.


Of course I also run the ground wire as well.

12/2 will have a ground in the romex sheath - no extra ground run required.


--

-Mike-

[jloomis[_2_]]

It is safe to "tie into" an existing circuit, and if you want to get
technical, it really matters what the main circuit is used for.
If the 2 receptacles are on a high watt appliance say, and you want to run
another, it may pop the circuit.
More than likely not, and you are fine. Most of the times many of the
receptacles on any given circuit are not being use.
rarely are they ever on all at the same time unless a workshop, business,
lighting, computer, tv...
So, I would put in a junction box, and pig tail the circuit coming in and
going out to allow the original circuit to be operating, and then using the
pigtail, tie into the new receptacle.
Make sure the grounds are all the same, the neutral, and of course the hot.
john

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...

I don't frequent any other forums and have a basic electrical question so
thought I would try it here.

When I look at circuits for outlets they always run the wire "through" every
outlet until the end. Is it OK to just branch or T off of an existing
circuit?

I have an outlet at each end of a wall. There is romex running across the
top of the wall from one to another. It has some slack. I would like to clip
the romex, add in a junction box and tie in one piece of two wire romex
running down to a new outlet box and splice the clipped ones back together
so the original ones keep working.

If I follow all the circuit maps I see and the traditional way I see
circuits done I would clip the romex, run one piece of two wire down to the
new outlet from one side of the clip. Then come out the other side of the
outlet with more romex back up to the other side of the clip so the circuit
runs "through the outlet, instead of branching.

I know branching works because I have done it a few times before.

Questions.

To code? Don't really care, just wonder.
Safe? Do care.

Of course I also run the ground wire as well.