I've asked a number of questions here lately. The scary part starts
tomorrow. I'm building some bookcases that will sit atop a long row of
existing cubbyhole units to form a pseudo "built-in". It's plywood
plus a face frame - all straight lines - but still a pretty big deal
for a weekend warrior like me. I've posted the basic design he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...0522/lightbox/

The two mirror-image bookcases will flank a TV. Each one will be built
as two units then screwed together with those barrel thingamabobs.
Here's the overall layout, including the existing cubbyholes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1159/lightbox/

The RH unit shows the plywood shelves and uprights behind the face
frame. The LH unit only shows the face frame.

I made a miniature test piece to help visualize how the full units
would look, and to practice using the dado jig, face frame clamps,
kreg jig, etc. But for the scratched-up scrap ply I used, I'm pleased
with the look.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...2731/lightbox/

The face frame is as yet unfinished. I kind of like the contrast and
may leave the face frame natural.

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I've asked a number of questions here lately. The scary part starts
tomorrow. I'm building some bookcases that will sit atop a long row of
existing cubbyhole units to form a pseudo "built-in". It's plywood
plus a face frame - all straight lines - but still a pretty big deal
for a weekend warrior like me. I've posted the basic design he

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Looks pretty nice.

You may have this figured out ahead of time (though I don't know how you
could possibly out guess SWMBOg) but if I was building those units, I
would have only the middle shelf in each unit stationary, the others
would be adjustable.

You just never know what the equipment manufacturers are going to come
out with next other than it will be bigger or smaller and better than
what's out there now

For rigidity of the adjustable shelves, I would think you're likely in
good shape for the 18" span with 3/4" ply but with 26" you might find it
"iffy" depending on the load. I've got some at 32" in a wall hung unit
and what I would do - if I were to do it over - would be to continue on
with a "fake" face frame on the leading edge of the adjustable shelves
which would, when seated, look like more of the face frame. To get
around the slight gap which will be present no matter how close your
tolerances there would be; I might hit the joint of the real face from
with a veining bit on the router just to provide a bit of "detail" to
lose the gap.

With the size of your units and the face frame, you might even find
you're good to go with just the face frame around the periphery and
leave all the shelves adjustable, In my bookcase unit, seated atop
custom built cabinets, there are six vertical elements with face frame.
The shelves spanning them in the five book cases are a bit over 32"
and the whole thing sits 5' high. The bookcase is open backed and
fastened to the wall at the top (behind the crown molding and screwed in
at the bottom - up from within the base cabinets) They've been in place
for going on 26 years now and, trust me, they are not going anywhere and
still look as good as the day the varnish dried (other than a slight
amount of deflection with some of the heavier loads).

Greg Guarino wrote:
I've asked a number of questions here lately. The scary part starts
tomorrow. I'm building some bookcases that will sit atop a long row
of
existing cubbyhole units to form a pseudo "built-in". It's plywood
plus a face frame - all straight lines - but still a pretty big deal
for a weekend warrior like me. I've posted the basic design he

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Trust your instincts and have fun.


Lew

Greg Guarino wrote:
I've asked a number of questions here lately. The scary part starts
tomorrow. I'm building some bookcases that will sit atop a long row of
existing cubbyhole units to form a pseudo "built-in". It's plywood
plus a face frame - all straight lines - but still a pretty big deal
for a weekend warrior like me. I've posted the basic design he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...0522/lightbox/

The two mirror-image bookcases will flank a TV. Each one will be built
as two units then screwed together with those barrel thingamabobs.
Here's the overall layout, including the existing cubbyholes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1159/lightbox/

The RH unit shows the plywood shelves and uprights behind the face
frame. The LH unit only shows the face frame.

I made a miniature test piece to help visualize how the full units
would look, and to practice using the dado jig, face frame clamps,
kreg jig, etc. But for the scratched-up scrap ply I used, I'm pleased
with the look.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...2731/lightbox/

The face frame is as yet unfinished. I kind of like the contrast and
may leave the face frame natural.

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

If you like the contrast by all means leave it that way. A year ago I
completed an 8' x8' pantry. Face frames and door panels very dark and all
other wood natural white oak. I am very happy with the contrast.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 18:02:34 -0600, Leon wrote:

If you like the contrast by all means leave it that way. A year ago I
completed an 8' x8' pantry. Face frames and door panels very dark and
all other wood natural white oak. I am very happy with the contrast.

A few years ago I built an entertainment center (10' long including the
aquarium portion). Just for the heck of it I used cherry panels in alder
frames. Almost identical in color when first built. The cherry has
darkened quite nicely since and I really like the contrast.

I had no idea if I'd like the result when I built it - it was just an
experiment. So to Greg I say go for it.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Nothing at this stage of the game, simply have fun and follow your
instincts.

But, and strictly for future reference ... many of us have learned the
untold benefits of being able to use a 3D modeling program, like
SketchUp, to actually build a project, in great detail, before setting
foot in the shop ... and, at a minimum, saving much of that hard earned
stock from the possibility of the scrap pile, streamlining the process,
and gaining some extra satisfaction from having confidently executed a
well conceived plan ... perhaps putting a few extra bucks in your pocket
at the same time.

Just ask Leon, in his airplane display case thread posted shortly after
this one today, how he went about designing and building that display
case with absolutely nothing to go on but a client's murky spec.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Dec 30, 6:46*pm, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I've asked a number of questions here lately. The scary part starts
tomorrow. I'm building some bookcases that will sit atop a long row of
existing cubbyhole units to form a pseudo "built-in". It's plywood
plus a face frame - all straight lines - but still a pretty big deal
for a weekend warrior like me. I've posted the basic design he

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Looks pretty nice.

You may have this figured out ahead of time (though I don't know how you
could possibly out guess SWMBOg) but if I was building those units, I
would have only the middle shelf in each unit stationary, the others
would be adjustable.

You just never know what the equipment manufacturers are going to come
out with next other than it will be bigger or smaller and better than
what's out there now

I know it's out of fashion, but we intend to fill the bookcases with
actual books, of which we have several hundred. I believe I have
planned adequately for tall things like atlases and coffee-table
books, short things like novels, and medium things like, well, medium-
sized books.

For rigidity of the adjustable shelves, I would think you're likely in
good shape for the 18" span with 3/4" ply but with 26" you might find it
"iffy" depending on the load. *I've got some at 32" in a wall hung unit
and what I would do - if I were to do it over - would be to continue on
with a "fake" face frame on the leading edge of the adjustable shelves
which would, when seated, look like more of the face frame. *To get
around the slight gap which will be present no matter how close your
tolerances there would be; I might hit the joint of the real face from
with a veining bit on the router just to provide a bit of "detail" to
lose the gap.

With the size of your units and the face frame, you might even find
you're good to go with just the face frame around the periphery and
leave all the shelves adjustable,

I hope that with fixed shelves screwed into the back and braced with a
face frame, I should be OK. There will probably be a knickknack here
and there to lighten the load as well.

On 12/30/2012 08:39 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Dec 30, 6:46 pm, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I know it's out of fashion, but we intend to fill the bookcases with
actual books, of which we have several hundred.

It'd be cheaper and take up much less room to just buy a kindle - just
kidding :-)


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Dec 30, 11:37*pm, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 12/30/2012 08:39 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

On Dec 30, 6:46 pm, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I know it's out of fashion, but we intend to fill the bookcases with
actual books, of which we have several hundred.

It'd be cheaper and take up much less room to just buy a kindle - just
kidding :-)

Hey! My wife's kindle might just fit in my "miniature" bookcase
mockup. I've been wondering what use we might find for it.

On Dec 30, 7:02*pm, Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
I've asked a number of questions here lately. The scary part starts
tomorrow. I'm building some bookcases that will sit atop a long row of
existing cubbyhole units to form a pseudo "built-in". It's plywood
plus a face frame - all straight lines - but still a pretty big deal
for a weekend warrior like me. I've posted the basic design he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...0522/lightbox/

The two mirror-image bookcases will flank a TV. Each one will be built
as two units then screwed together with those barrel thingamabobs.
Here's the overall layout, including the existing cubbyholes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1159/lightbox/

The RH unit shows the plywood shelves and uprights behind the face
frame. The LH unit only shows the face frame.

I made a miniature test piece to help visualize how the full units
would look, and to practice using the dado jig, face frame clamps,
kreg jig, etc. But for the scratched-up scrap ply I used, I'm pleased
with the look.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...2731/lightbox/

The face frame is as yet unfinished. I kind of like the contrast and
may leave the face frame natural.

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

If you like the contrast by all means leave it that way. A year ago I
completed an 8' x8' pantry. Face frames and door panels very dark and all
other wood natural white oak. *I am very happy with the contrast.

It's a happy accident; I really didn't have that much contrast in
mind. I'm glad I made the test piece.

On Dec 30, 7:29*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Nothing at this stage of the game, simply have fun and follow your
instincts.

But, and strictly for future reference ... many of us have learned the
untold benefits of being able to use a 3D modeling program, like
SketchUp, to actually build a project, in great detail, before setting
foot in the shop ... and, at a minimum, saving much of that hard earned
stock from the possibility of the scrap pile, streamlining the process,
and gaining some extra satisfaction from having confidently executed a
well conceived plan ... perhaps putting a few extra bucks in your pocket
at the same time.

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.

For bookshelves like the ones I'm making, 2D seems adequate, and is
already more planning than I've ever done. But I do feel foolish for
not having gone that route before. I now know the exact measurements
for the spacing of the dadoes, for instance. My test piece, thrown
together by eye, reminded me that it's the face frame that needs to
look properly spaced; the shelves have to be located with that in
mind. Drawing it precisely made that easy.

So I hope my plan is at least reasonably "well-conceived".
"Confidently" may be too strong a term; I'll call myself "cautiously
optimistic".

Amy Guarino wrote:

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.


Why Amy... you write just like Greg!

I know what you mean about Sketchup though. I dabbled with it a couple of
times, but only for a few minutes each. I never really invested in it, and
did not give the product a chance. Just didn't have the need, or the
desire, or the interest, or something, to really get out of the blocks with
it. It's very clear from the comments by those who do use it here, that it
works, and works well, but I just never took the time to realize its
benefits.

--

-Mike-

On 12/31/2012 7:15 AM, Amy Guarino wrote:
On Dec 30, 7:29 pm, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Nothing at this stage of the game, simply have fun and follow your
instincts.

But, and strictly for future reference ... many of us have learned the
untold benefits of being able to use a 3D modeling program, like
SketchUp, to actually build a project, in great detail, before setting
foot in the shop ... and, at a minimum, saving much of that hard earned
stock from the possibility of the scrap pile, streamlining the process,
and gaining some extra satisfaction from having confidently executed a
well conceived plan ... perhaps putting a few extra bucks in your pocket
at the same time.

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.


FWIW you do have to think a little differently with Sketchup but IMHO
what that amounts to is much more simple to use that an typical CAD program.

Well Swingman and I probably installed Sketchup and uninstalled it "two
times" before finally leaving it on our computers and actually putting
it to good use. IIRC up until version 6 it was pretty frustrating to
deal with. I had been using AutoCAD for several years and now totally
use Sketchup and cannot imagine going back. Dimensions are fine, there
are settings to make lines less clunky looking and dimension tweaks.
There are countless Youtube tutorials and once you understand the
concept you wonder how you may have found it difficult to use. LOL.

I personally have added a bunch of short cut keys to eliminate having to
click on icons to change commands. then there a re countless add- ons
to do various procedures.

And if you would like to see one of my detailed drawings to put your
mind at ease concerning accuracy and or exact measurements just let me
know. ;~)






For bookshelves like the ones I'm making, 2D seems adequate, and is
already more planning than I've ever done. But I do feel foolish for
not having gone that route before. I now know the exact measurements
for the spacing of the dadoes, for instance. My test piece, thrown
together by eye, reminded me that it's the face frame that needs to
look properly spaced; the shelves have to be located with that in
mind. Drawing it precisely made that easy.

So I hope my plan is at least reasonably "well-conceived".
"Confidently" may be too strong a term; I'll call myself "cautiously
optimistic".

On Dec 31, 10:00*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:
Amy Guarino wrote:
I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.

Why Amy... you write just like Greg

More than one user for this computer. Sorry.

I know what you mean about Sketchup though. *I dabbled with it a couple of
times, but only for a few minutes each. *I never really invested in it, and
did not give the product a chance. *Just didn't have the need, or the
desire, or the interest, or something, to really get out of the blocks with
it. *It's very clear from the comments by those who do use it here, that it
works, and works well, but I just never took the time to realize its
benefits.

I see some amazing things posted here, so it must be my problem rather
than the program. Or perhaps I was using a more primitive version.

On 12/31/2012 7:15 AM, Amy Guarino wrote:

On Dec 30, 7:29 pm, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.

Actually, SU is precision personified, but yours is quite a common first
reaction for almost all of us who use the product.

Most download it and reinstall about three times before the light
finally comes on ... my initial reaction was that it was simply too
cartoonish to be of any value (I have an inherent dislike of cartoons,
of any kind).

Damn, was I wrong.

And, besides using it for all eWoodShop projects the past six years, a
few years back I built a $350k custom home for a client using SketchUp
for all construction, bidding and permit documents, including the
Framing Plan. The Foundation Plan was done by the PE, but I did 3D model
the foundation for bidding and fabrication since it was so unique:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30533148423618

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...077/Foundation

When that light finally comes on, and the value of being able to view a
3D model for design and concise fabrication details ...particularly for
those of us missing the designer gene ... there is no way you will ever
go back in the shop, or embark upon a new construction project, without
first doing a bit of 3D modeling ... the benefits are simply too huge to
ignore.

For bookshelves like the ones I'm making, 2D seems adequate, and is
already more planning than I've ever done. But I do feel foolish for
not having gone that route before. I now know the exact measurements
for the spacing of the dadoes, for instance. My test piece, thrown
together by eye, reminded me that it's the face frame that needs to
look properly spaced; the shelves have to be located with that in
mind. Drawing it precisely made that easy.

Now, imagine being able to do an accurate virtual walk-around and get
many different perspectives before you cast the thing in concrete.

So I hope my plan is at least reasonably "well-conceived".
"Confidently" may be too strong a term; I'll call myself "cautiously
optimistic".

You'll do just fine ... those of us who have "seen the light" simply
like to do a bit of preaching on all aspects of the woodworking religion.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/31/2012 9:18 AM, Leon wrote:

And if you would like to see one of my detailed drawings to put your
mind at ease concerning accuracy and or exact measurements just let me
know. ;~)

And I've got about 40 on the 3D Warehouse (many are just 1st iterations,
without the detail that I actually do for shop work) ... but will still
give you an idea of the utility, with a couple of full kitchen designs
thrown to boot:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...&pre vstart=0


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/30/2012 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:


If you like the contrast by all means leave it that way. A year ago I
completed an 8' x8' pantry. Face frames and door panels very dark and all
other wood natural white oak. I am very happy with the contrast.



OK, here you go any way. This was a print screen image so the details
are as good as what I am seeing but should put your mind at ease as far
as intricacy is concerned. The Xray version of the plans I used to
build the bedroom project.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

The result,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...57630857421932

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 05:15:31 -0800 (PST), Amy Guarino
wrote:

On Dec 30, 7:29*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Nothing at this stage of the game, simply have fun and follow your
instincts.

But, and strictly for future reference ... many of us have learned the
untold benefits of being able to use a 3D modeling program, like
SketchUp, to actually build a project, in great detail, before setting
foot in the shop ... and, at a minimum, saving much of that hard earned
stock from the possibility of the scrap pile, streamlining the process,
and gaining some extra satisfaction from having confidently executed a
well conceived plan ... perhaps putting a few extra bucks in your pocket
at the same time.

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.

When I first started with Sketchup I couldn't get it to do anything
right, until I read some here. Someone mentioned that it's NOT a CAD
program, rather a 3-D MODELING program. Thinking about that statement
for a while got my mind twisted around to understanding what I was
doing. The next time I picked up Sketchup the whole thing became
obvious.

You have to think about building objects, not making measurements. The
measurements come later.

For bookshelves like the ones I'm making, 2D seems adequate, and is
already more planning than I've ever done. But I do feel foolish for
not having gone that route before. I now know the exact measurements
for the spacing of the dadoes, for instance. My test piece, thrown
together by eye, reminded me that it's the face frame that needs to
look properly spaced; the shelves have to be located with that in
mind. Drawing it precisely made that easy.

You'll find a 3D model will be far more accurate and will allow more
complicated projects.

So I hope my plan is at least reasonably "well-conceived".
"Confidently" may be too strong a term; I'll call myself "cautiously
optimistic".

Have fun. After all, that's the whole point. OTOH, after using
Sketchup, I'd never go back to 2D drawings.

On 12/31/2012 9:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/30/2012 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:


If you like the contrast by all means leave it that way. A year ago I
completed an 8' x8' pantry. Face frames and door panels very dark and all
other wood natural white oak. I am very happy with the contrast.



OK, here you go any way. This was a print screen image so the details
are as good as what I am seeing but should put your mind at ease as far
as intricacy is concerned. The Xray version of the plans I used to
build the bedroom project.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

The result,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...57630857421932



And for joint details.... And keep in mind that you make all pieces
into components so that you can separate them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

On 12/31/2012 9:58 AM, wrote:
Someone mentioned that it's NOT a CAD
program, rather a 3-D MODELING program. Thinking about that statement
for a while got my mind twisted around to understanding what I was
doing. The next time I picked up Sketchup the whole thing became
obvious.

That would probably be moi ... I kept having to repeatedly point that
out to Robatoy in our many initial argum... err, conversations about
SketchUp.

Bless his heart, that boy sure liked to push buttons when given the
opportunity.

We miss you, Bubba ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/31/2012 9:58 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 05:15:31 -0800 (PST), Amy Guarino
wrote:

On Dec 30, 7:29 pm, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2012 4:19 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Any tips and tricks before I launch myself into the Great Unknown?

Nothing at this stage of the game, simply have fun and follow your
instincts.

But, and strictly for future reference ... many of us have learned the
untold benefits of being able to use a 3D modeling program, like
SketchUp, to actually build a project, in great detail, before setting
foot in the shop ... and, at a minimum, saving much of that hard earned
stock from the possibility of the scrap pile, streamlining the process,
and gaining some extra satisfaction from having confidently executed a
well conceived plan ... perhaps putting a few extra bucks in your pocket
at the same time.

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.

When I first started with Sketchup I couldn't get it to do anything
right, until I read some here. Someone mentioned that it's NOT a CAD
program, rather a 3-D MODELING program. Thinking about that statement
for a while got my mind twisted around to understanding what I was
doing. The next time I picked up Sketchup the whole thing became
obvious.

You have to think about building objects, not making measurements. The
measurements come later.

For bookshelves like the ones I'm making, 2D seems adequate, and is
already more planning than I've ever done. But I do feel foolish for
not having gone that route before. I now know the exact measurements
for the spacing of the dadoes, for instance. My test piece, thrown
together by eye, reminded me that it's the face frame that needs to
look properly spaced; the shelves have to be located with that in
mind. Drawing it precisely made that easy.

You'll find a 3D model will be far more accurate and will allow more
complicated projects.

So I hope my plan is at least reasonably "well-conceived".
"Confidently" may be too strong a term; I'll call myself "cautiously
optimistic".

Have fun. After all, that's the whole point. OTOH, after using
Sketchup, I'd never go back to 2D drawings.


LOL, no kidding, no more drawing hidden lines where you think they
should go.

Swingman wrote in
:

On 12/31/2012 9:58 AM, wrote:
Someone mentioned that it's NOT a CAD
program, rather a 3-D MODELING program. Thinking about that statement
for a while got my mind twisted around to understanding what I was
doing. The next time I picked up Sketchup the whole thing became
obvious.

That would probably be moi ... I kept having to repeatedly point that
out to Robatoy in our many initial argum... err, conversations about
SketchUp.

Bless his heart, that boy sure liked to push buttons when given the
opportunity.

We miss you, Bubba ...

+1

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 12/31/12 9:00 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Amy Guarino wrote:

I fooled around with Sketchup a while back, but only briefly. I
managed to "sketch" the first floor of our house with it, but I found
it very frustrating. It didn't seem like the kind of thing that would
lend itself to exact measurements. I guess I either didn't give it
enough time, or was going about it the wrong way.


Why Amy... you write just like Greg!

I know what you mean about Sketchup though. I dabbled with it a couple of
times, but only for a few minutes each. I never really invested in it, and
did not give the product a chance. Just didn't have the need, or the
desire, or the interest, or something, to really get out of the blocks with
it. It's very clear from the comments by those who do use it here, that it
works, and works well, but I just never took the time to realize its
benefits.


Same, here. I don't have the patience nor attention span to sit down and
go through the tutorials when I don't *need* to use it. And when I
*need* to design something, I usually have a deadline and therefor, have
not the time to sit down and learn it.

I usually end up going back to Canvas, which I've used for years.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Amy Guarino wrote in news:68dfd72d-1f9f-42f2-
:

Hey! My wife's kindle might just fit in my "miniature" bookcase
mockup. I've been wondering what use we might find for it.

I was tempted to make a Kindle bookcase just for the fun of it. If it
wasn't for the stability issues, maybe multiple shelves 1-kindle wide.
That way, you can store the Kindle 2, Kindle Keyboard, Kindle Light, Kindle
Fire, Kindle Fire HD, Re-kindle and the fantastic flop Kindle-ING.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

wrote in :

*snip*


Have fun. After all, that's the whole point. OTOH, after using
Sketchup, I'd never go back to 2D drawings.

I bounce back and forth at times. Sometimes I'll take the 2D drawing and
redo it in Sketchup, and other times I'll take the Sketchup model and redo
it in 2D. There are just some things that lend themselves better to one
format or another.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 12/31/2012 2:08 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in :

*snip*


Have fun. After all, that's the whole point. OTOH, after using
Sketchup, I'd never go back to 2D drawings.

I bounce back and forth at times. Sometimes I'll take the 2D drawing and
redo it in Sketchup, and other times I'll take the Sketchup model and redo
it in 2D. There are just some things that lend themselves better to one
format or another.

Puckdropper



Just in case you are not aware, you can make Sketchup show your 3D
drawing in 2D if you click a view other than ISO and change Camera to
Parallel Projection.

On 31 Dec 2012 19:52:56 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Amy Guarino wrote in news:68dfd72d-1f9f-42f2-
:

Hey! My wife's kindle might just fit in my "miniature" bookcase
mockup. I've been wondering what use we might find for it.

I was tempted to make a Kindle bookcase just for the fun of it. If it
wasn't for the stability issues, maybe multiple shelves 1-kindle wide.
That way, you can store the Kindle 2, Kindle Keyboard, Kindle Light, Kindle
Fire, Kindle Fire HD, Re-kindle and the fantastic flop Kindle-ING.

Cool. Make sure you engrave the model number beneath each
corresponding slot. That'd be cause for some double-takes. g

Do it on one entire wall. Just the one square foot of bookcase.

P.S: I wonder if Amy has caught Greg's use of her account again yet.

--
You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore
the consequences of ignoring reality.
--Ayn Rand

On 12/31/2012 9:30 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I see some amazing things posted here, so it must be my problem rather
than the program. Or perhaps I was using a more primitive version.

Really has not been that much change in the actual drawing/modeling
tools since before Google first bought the company that developed it.

Although the last two version upgrades have added some modeling tools to
the Pro version that are not available in the free version, they are
merely convenience items, like a solid modeling "trim" function, which
really does not impact the modeling/drawing functionality to any extent.
The basic difference in the Pro version is that it contains a standalone
"presentation" module ("Layout"), that makes it much easier to draft and
print construction documents, plans and presentations.

The above notwithstanding, the single most important concept/secret to
getting the most benefit from Sketchup is, in a nutshell:

ALWAYS model a scaled "component" of every element of your project/design.

The above can not be reiterated enough!

By doing this you are effectively building your design before you
actually go to the shop; and, by doing so, you save time, money and
material by making your mistakes and perfecting your design digitally.

By practicing that one "secret" first and foremost, you become
proficient with the program quicker, end up with a better design, as
well as insuring a better end product.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in
:

*snip*


ALWAYS model a scaled "component" of every element of your
project/design.

*snip*

I agree. I've been using a 2D CAD program that doesn't support anything
like components, and really miss that functionality. It's especially
good when something needs to be repeated exactly, like windows and doors.
Without components, you have to spend time modifying each one, or decide
if it's better to delete and replace.

FWIW, the 2D CAD program is used to talk to a "craft cutter" which is
basically a plotter with a knife blade. I have to export from the CAD
program to the cutter software then cut.

Puckdropper

--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 1/1/2013 3:18 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/31/2012 9:30 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I see some amazing things posted here, so it must be my problem rather
than the program. Or perhaps I was using a more primitive version.

Really has not been that much change in the actual drawing/modeling
tools since before Google first bought the company that developed it.

Although the last two version upgrades have added some modeling tools to
the Pro version that are not available in the free version, they are
merely convenience items, like a solid modeling "trim" function, which
really does not impact the modeling/drawing functionality to any extent.
The basic difference in the Pro version is that it contains a standalone
"presentation" module ("Layout"), that makes it much easier to draft and
print construction documents, plans and presentations.

The above notwithstanding, the single most important concept/secret to
getting the most benefit from Sketchup is, in a nutshell:

ALWAYS model a scaled "component" of every element of your project/design.

The above can not be reiterated enough!

By doing this you are effectively building your design before you
actually go to the shop; and, by doing so, you save time, money and
material by making your mistakes and perfecting your design digitally.

By practicing that one "secret" first and foremost, you become
proficient with the program quicker, end up with a better design, as
well as insuring a better end product.

I'm jealous. I suck at any drawing, even sketchup. I was never very good
in drafting classes in school. Just passable. I could visualize it, but
it never looked like what I saw in my head... always just off.

I used autocad way back when, had problems with that too. Since I could
never see what I was drawing, scrolling back and forth...

I have tried sketchup a couple of times, and I just don't have that
ability. I find it slow, cumbersome, and still looks like hell compared
to my mental image.

I wind up drawing a rough (very rough sketch) putting notes about things
that will trip me up. sometimes the order of things so that I don't jump
ahead then wind up with something that can't be worked on once assembled.

I wish I could do sketchup.

tiredofspam wrote:
On 1/1/2013 3:18 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/31/2012 9:30 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I see some amazing things posted here, so it must be my problem rather
than the program. Or perhaps I was using a more primitive version.

Really has not been that much change in the actual drawing/modeling
tools since before Google first bought the company that developed it.

Although the last two version upgrades have added some modeling tools to
the Pro version that are not available in the free version, they are
merely convenience items, like a solid modeling "trim" function, which
really does not impact the modeling/drawing functionality to any extent.
The basic difference in the Pro version is that it contains a standalone
"presentation" module ("Layout"), that makes it much easier to draft and
print construction documents, plans and presentations.

The above notwithstanding, the single most important concept/secret to
getting the most benefit from Sketchup is, in a nutshell:

ALWAYS model a scaled "component" of every element of your
project/design.

The above can not be reiterated enough!

By doing this you are effectively building your design before you
actually go to the shop; and, by doing so, you save time, money and
material by making your mistakes and perfecting your design digitally.

By practicing that one "secret" first and foremost, you become
proficient with the program quicker, end up with a better design, as
well as insuring a better end product.

I'm jealous. I suck at any drawing, even sketchup. I was never very
good in drafting classes in school. Just passable. I could visualize
it, but it never looked like what I saw in my head... always just off.


You are more experienced than me, so please just take my words in the
thoughtful spirit with which they are intended.

You don't expect perfection on your first model of an item do you? Being
creative inherently involves taking a chance So design must be an
iterative process. Take what can learn from history, the work of
others, your previous designs, listen to what you think, and what
Swingman, Leon and others say, and cheerfully go where no man has gone
before! : )

SketchUp is not too slow once you get used to it, depending on what you
are trying to do of course. As suggested in the previous post, I'm
still trying to use it "right"-by making appropriate use of
*components*. I usually start off on the right foot and then violate
the rule before I'm finished. I use the software about once a month or
so. I'm am due to de-design my "entertainment center", and I think about
molding whenever my mind is clear. Gosh, it wasn't so long ago that I
never thought about molding! ; )

IIRC, the work "art" and "craft" were derived from the same word
(implying their relation). If anything thinks I might have that wrong,
I will happily look op my source ~a book on architectural wood carving
currently in another room. Have fun!

Cheers,
Bill



I used autocad way back when, had problems with that too. Since I
could never see what I was drawing, scrolling back and forth...

I have tried sketchup a couple of times, and I just don't have that
ability. I find it slow, cumbersome, and still looks like hell
compared to my mental image.

I wind up drawing a rough (very rough sketch) putting notes about
things that will trip me up. sometimes the order of things so that I
don't jump ahead then wind up with something that can't be worked on
once assembled.

I wish I could do sketchup.